From F82 to e92

[usu335i]

Originally Posted by D1ESEL

Your view of the mountains is incredible! The car looks pretty nice as well

Thanks! Yes the view of the mountains is nice here. Here's a pic from October. No filtering or editing, just snap shoot

[Zeus69]

Soooo... how do you like the Ford Raptor?

[usu335i]

Originally Posted by Zeus69

Soooo... how do you like the Ford Raptor?

The Raptor is a seriously incredible machine. Its capabilities for a stock vehicle boggle the mind. It's nearly perfect but it shares a major weakness with the F8x... sounds terrible.

[neilum]

I know I'm on an E90 forum, and I get the visceral feeling the E90 offers with it's hydraulic steering and the V8, but more then that I feel many people here are grossly over-simplifying the bigger picture. I've read the E90 is the last real /M? You have to be out of your mind. The F80 in the pure sense of being a blend of track car and DD is taken up a few notches, everywhere. It's way more capable on a track or on the road.

I've read most of this thread and I get it, most of you prefer the E90 M3 (of course you wouldn't be here if you didn't) but I'll just say besides the F80 being noticeable sharper and more flexible and a much more capable track car, the F80 is more fickle.

Here's the problem. The F80 out of the box has a few minor flaws that require tweaking to make it right, and I get some of you gave up and never fell in love, whereas the E90 suffers less out of the box from these "fatal" flaws.

F80's active sound is terrible.
F80's 275 tires are an absolute mistake with this amount of power.
The base exhaust is meh. I get it many who have never driven it say it sounds "terrible". How you can have such a strong opinion with 0 experience is the world we live in I guess.


I have done 3 things with my F80 and it has changed my experience literally from night/day.

Coded out active sound
295 rear tires
MPE Exhaust

Stock for stock, I can totally see why some would never truly connect with the F80 if they had a non-comp pack car and didn't mod it right. But IMO if you tweak a few things, you now have a car that is in a different stratosphere performance wise while truly getting close to tugging at your heart strings like the E90 does.

I'm truly sorry that many people will write off the F80 without truly understanding it. It's like a hotter chick who went and listened to her Mom's outfit and makeup advice. The foundation is there, its just a little off in execution and requires more from "you" to make it right.

That's my take, I love the E90 but there is no way that the few things it does better than the F80 would make it so compelling to go backwards. It's a lot slower, looks a little dated, lacks tech, but it sounds better and has better steering feel. Pick your poison but to hear comments on here saying the E90 is the last of the true M cars makes it hard to take this forum seriously.

[Blindside_137]

Neilum, you aren't wrong. Many acknowledge that theF8x is superior. But somehow the sum of the parts with the E92 just puts a bigger smile on the face of the driver.

That's really what it comes down to. E92 owners go back because it simply is more fun to them. You are right it is slower, less fuel efficient and other things you mentioned. In fact I remember a lot of car comparisons with the E92 often losing several categories to the competition. But somehow at the end of the review it wound up on top of all of them. Their remarks would be something like it wasn't the fastest or this or that. But it does everything well, and we were smiling the whole time.

And IMHO, I don't feel like the E9x is dated with LCI updates and feel like the interior is cleaner and simpler. I will never get over the new pop tart screens and preferred the double hump dash.

[jaehshim]

Originally Posted by neilum

That's my take, I love the E90 but there is no way that the few things it does better than the F80 would make it so compelling to go backwards. It's a lot slower, looks a little dated, lacks tech, but it sounds better and has better steering feel. Pick your poison but to hear comments on here saying the E90 is the last of the true M cars makes it hard to take this forum seriously.

yea you are correct, the F80 is mechanically and technologically 100% superior to the E90. Love the new tech, screen resolution so much better, Faster, roomier, easy to drive daily for sure.
I disagree with that exhaust thou. Heard F80 MPE and 5 additional, different well-branded ones, OEM is just an unpleasant noise, MPE is just a "louder" version of it...let's be honest, it sounds terrible.

The problem is that the F80 truly lost its "specialness", mostly with the powertrain. Why is this such a big deal for enthusiasts, journalists, everyone?
The core of an M car has always been the powertrain and suspension. We do not buy an M car because it has an engraved M badge on our seats or it has quad exhaust pipes. We don't buy an M because it's got a special looking 19 inch rims or a tri-colored stitching in the steering wheel.

We buy it because every M engines were race-derived, special engines. It eats gas like crazy, uses some weird 10w60 oil (even Porsche GT3 RS uses 0w40...), always had bearing issues all along and etc. But it had a true race-root engine, high rev NA motor, that priceless air induction noise above 4000rpm under full throttle, one of the rare mass-produced engines that had oem individual throttle bodies. Along with that, a great suspension work with precise handling. All together, the E9X M3 with S65 lived an era where it outran every competitor of the generation, outperforming against better traction (AWD), bigger displacement engine with much torque.

Taking an inline 6 used in 335i and putting 2 Mitsubishi turbo into the S55 did satisfy both emission and power, but 0 specialness. Crazy quick, hell yea...but remember we live in a world where a 4900lb electic sedan will do 2.8sec 0 to 60 and be faster than a $400K Ferrari 488...so speed isn't really what we are dying for here...it's more of driving dynamics, sound, and the mechanical feel that we dig so much from these performance sport sedans.

Wait 1.5~2 yrs when the next G series M3/M4 comes out. Comparing Turbo to Turbo, actually let's just say the same block engine because we already know it, the new one will be quicker, more powerful, lighter, and more tech bound, simply a more "better Turbo" engine than the S55. What are we gonna remember about the S55 years later? not sure...maybe just an N54 + 2 mitsubishi turbo, but the following turbo was nothing but better, upgraded in every way?

[usu335i]

Originally Posted by neilum

I know I'm on an E90 forum, and I get the visceral feeling the E90 offers with it's hydraulic steering and the V8, but more then that I feel many people here are grossly over-simplifying the bigger picture. I've read the E90 is the last real /M? You have to be out of your mind. The F80 in the pure sense of being a blend of track car and DD is taken up a few notches, everywhere. It's way more capable on a track or on the road.

I've read most of this thread and I get it, most of you prefer the E90 M3 (of course you wouldn't be here if you didn't) but I'll just say besides the F80 being noticeable sharper and more flexible and a much more capable track car, the F80 is more fickle.

Here's the problem. The F80 out of the box has a few minor flaws that require tweaking to make it right, and I get some of you gave up and never fell in love, whereas the E90 suffers less out of the box from these "fatal" flaws.

F80's active sound is terrible.
F80's 275 tires are an absolute mistake with this amount of power.
The base exhaust is meh. I get it many who have never driven it say it sounds "terrible". How you can have such a strong opinion with 0 experience is the world we live in I guess.


I have done 3 things with my F80 and it has changed my experience literally from night/day.

Coded out active sound
295 rear tires
MPE Exhaust

Stock for stock, I can totally see why some would never truly connect with the F80 if they had a non-comp pack car and didn't mod it right. But IMO if you tweak a few things, you now have a car that is in a different stratosphere performance wise while truly getting close to tugging at your heart strings like the E90 does.

I'm truly sorry that many people will write off the F80 without truly understanding it. It's like a hotter chick who went and listened to her Mom's outfit and makeup advice. The foundation is there, its just a little off in execution and requires more from "you" to make it right.

That's my take, I love the E90 but there is no way that the few things it does better than the F80 would make it so compelling to go backwards. It's a lot slower, looks a little dated, lacks tech, but it sounds better and has better steering feel. Pick your poison but to hear comments on here saying the E90 is the last of the true M cars makes it hard to take this forum seriously.

I agree with you on a few of your points. My F82 was a beautiful car with a gorgeous interior. I lived with it for 2 years so I feel qualified to give my opinion. I didn't hate the car, I really liked it. I would probably still own it if I hadn't experienced prior generation M cars.
If stats and quicker time sheets are what makes a car superior than the f8x wins hands down. That's not what makes a car exciting to drive. Sound, driver engagement, and feedback were all lacking in my M4.
I waited a year to get an exhaust so I could hear as many as possible. I settled with the AWE. I also coded my car and disabled active sound. Both of these helped tremendously, but never came close to e92 levels.
I had to get back into a manual trans. I regret getting the dct in the M4.
I disagree about the e92 looking dated. 9 out of 10 people that have seen my e92 think it's brand new. Only knowledgeable enthusiasts know otherwise. To everyone else the e92 looks like a new car.
In the end it's all personal opinion. I really feel the e92 is special and will have a place in history. I think the F8x is forgettable and lost the special M sauce

[Talk2meg00se]

Originally Posted by neilum

I know I'm on an E90 forum, and I get the visceral feeling the E90 offers with it's hydraulic steering and the V8, but more then that I feel many people here are grossly over-simplifying the bigger picture. I've read the E90 is the last real /M? You have to be out of your mind. The F80 in the pure sense of being a blend of track car and DD is taken up a few notches, everywhere. It's way more capable on a track or on the road.

I've read most of this thread and I get it, most of you prefer the E90 M3 (of course you wouldn't be here if you didn't) but I'll just say besides the F80 being noticeable sharper and more flexible and a much more capable track car, the F80 is more fickle.

Here's the problem. The F80 out of the box has a few minor flaws that require tweaking to make it right, and I get some of you gave up and never fell in love, whereas the E90 suffers less out of the box from these "fatal" flaws.

F80's active sound is terrible.
F80's 275 tires are an absolute mistake with this amount of power.
The base exhaust is meh. I get it many who have never driven it say it sounds "terrible". How you can have such a strong opinion with 0 experience is the world we live in I guess.


I have done 3 things with my F80 and it has changed my experience literally from night/day.

Coded out active sound
295 rear tires
MPE Exhaust

Stock for stock, I can totally see why some would never truly connect with the F80 if they had a non-comp pack car and didn't mod it right. But IMO if you tweak a few things, you now have a car that is in a different stratosphere performance wise while truly getting close to tugging at your heart strings like the E90 does.

I'm truly sorry that many people will write off the F80 without truly understanding it. It's like a hotter chick who went and listened to her Mom's outfit and makeup advice. The foundation is there, its just a little off in execution and requires more from "you" to make it right.

That's my take, I love the E90 but there is no way that the few things it does better than the F80 would make it so compelling to go backwards. It's a lot slower, looks a little dated, lacks tech, but it sounds better and has better steering feel. Pick your poison but to hear comments on here saying the E90 is the last of the true M cars makes it hard to take this forum seriously.

Apparently the BMW "A-team" that designed the E92 was pulled from the M division to design the i8, with the "B-team" taking the lead on the F80.

Not sure if true.

[neilum]

Originally Posted by jaehshim

yea you are correct, the F80 is mechanically and technologically 100% superior to the E90. Love the new tech, screen resolution so much better, Faster, roomier, easy to drive daily for sure.
I disagree with that exhaust thou. Heard F80 MPE and 5 additional, different well-branded ones, OEM is just an unpleasant noise, MPE is just a "louder" version of it...let's be honest, it sounds terrible.

The problem is that the F80 truly lost its "specialness", mostly with the powertrain. Why is this such a big deal for enthusiasts, journalists, everyone?
The core of an M car has always been the powertrain and suspension. We do not buy an M car because it has an engraved M badge on our seats or it has quad exhaust pipes. We don't buy an M because it's got a special looking 19 inch rims or a tri-colored stitching in the steering wheel.

We buy it because every M engines were race-derived, special engines. It eats gas like crazy, uses some weird 10w60 oil (even Porsche GT3 RS uses 0w40...), always had bearing issues all along and etc. But it had a true race-root engine, high rev NA motor, that priceless air induction noise above 4000rpm under full throttle, one of the rare mass-produced engines that had oem individual throttle bodies. Along with that, a great suspension work with precise handling. All together, the E9X M3 with S65 lived an era where it outran every competitor of the generation, outperforming against better traction (AWD), bigger displacement engine with much torque.

Taking an inline 6 used in 335i and putting 2 Mitsubishi turbo into the S55 did satisfy both emission and power, but 0 specialness. Crazy quick, hell yea...but remember we live in a world where a 4900lb electic sedan will do 2.8sec 0 to 60 and be faster than a $400K Ferrari 488...so speed isn't really what we are dying for here...it's more of driving dynamics, sound, and the mechanical feel that we dig so much from these performance sport sedans.

Wait 1.5~2 yrs when the next G series M3/M4 comes out. Comparing Turbo to Turbo, actually let's just say the same block engine because we already know it, the new one will be quicker, more powerful, lighter, and more tech bound, simply a more "better Turbo" engine than the S55. What are we gonna remember about the S55 years later? not sure...maybe just an N54 + 2 mitsubishi turbo, but the following turbo was nothing but better, upgraded in every way?

100% honest opinion, the MPE sound far from awful. No, it's no S65. It can never be. NA V8 will always be in a class by itself sound wise. But, I seriously think its funny people think sounds awful. Have you honestly driven an MPE m3/m4?

I'll bet you didn't because the MPE is widely known to have a deeper, different tone altogether.

You also lost me if you think the S65 is somehow copied over from the N54 and slapped two turbos on it.

I agree the S65 has more character, but I don't agree or come close to agreeing that you have a solid understanding or researched the F80 in any serious way.

It's also completely untrue that all journalists or enthusiasts share your opinion. This is confirmation bias at it's finest. There are a lot of people who love the F80 and have written or posted videos sharing this.

You can't talk about handling as a strong point for the E90. You realize the F80 weights about 175 less then the E90 and is a sharper more focused car right? That's a fact. It's just a faster car and I don't mean just in a straight line.

It's also a fact the motor is far from what you think it is. This motor makes ~475 WHP with nothing but a piggyback/stage 1 tune. Crazy how this is just never mentioned? 475 wheel HP is just fun, let's be real. It's silly.

The N54 or N55 are about 380 WHP with the same thing, just a simple tune. The N55 even a little less.

I get it and admit the E90 has more character, but the F80 just seems WAY misunderstood, and at this point it's just people parroting a lot of information.

[neilum]

Originally Posted by usu335i

I agree with you on a few of your points. My F82 was a beautiful car with a gorgeous interior. I lived with it for 2 years so I feel qualified to give my opinion. I didn't hate the car, I really liked it. I would probably still own it if I hadn't experienced prior generation M cars.
If stats and quicker time sheets are what makes a car superior than the f8x wins hands down. That's not what makes a car exciting to drive. Sound, driver engagement, and feedback were all lacking in my M4.
I waited a year to get an exhaust so I could hear as many as possible. I settled with the AWE. I also coded my car and disabled active sound. Both of these helped tremendously, but never came close to e92 levels.
I had to get back into a manual trans. I regret getting the dct in the M4.
I disagree about the e92 looking dated. 9 out of 10 people that have seen my e92 think it's brand new. Only knowledgeable enthusiasts know otherwise. To everyone else the e92 looks like a new car.
In the end it's all personal opinion. I really feel the e92 is special and will have a place in history. I think the F8x is forgettable and lost the special M sauce

I'll agree to that.

They are just different. I drive and experience the E90 and I see an outdated car (not saying it isn't menacing) that feels kind of slow.

I'll bet money all of the ICE M3's will be classics, and the hybrid M3's will be shunned. They all have pros/cons and to straight up disregard one generation is short sighted as if the generation you like it somehow without flaws.

I'll just add I fully intend on owning an E92 one day as well. I think having both would be a treat.

[Montaver]

The F80 got a few good reviews from the beginning, Chris Harris in particular loved it. His original video is still on YouTube. The comp pack car is universally praised. It's clearly a faster more focused car than anything which has come before. If I wasn't concerned about depreciation and needed to buy a new car that does it all, I'd be straight into my nearest dealer for a new F80 CP.

Like I said earlier in the thread though, the E90 and F80 CP are in totally different worlds price wise so the apples to apples comparison is slightly unfair. People love to bash cars online but never actually own or drive them, thats where the F80 is right now. It's particularly on trend to bemoan turbo's and electric steering, but thats the reality of new cars.

I have never driven an F80, considering renting one on Turo so I can do a few hundred miles and get an initial feeling for it around some twisties. I have no doubts it will be exceptional, it's an M3 after all!

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by neilum

I know I'm on an E90 forum, and I get the visceral feeling the E90 offers with it's hydraulic steering and the V8, but more then that I feel many people here are grossly over-simplifying the bigger picture. I've read the E90 is the last real /M? You have to be out of your mind. The F80 in the pure sense of being a blend of track car and DD is taken up a few notches, everywhere. It's way more capable on a track or on the road.

I've read most of this thread and I get it, most of you prefer the E90 M3 (of course you wouldn't be here if you didn't) but I'll just say besides the F80 being noticeable sharper and more flexible and a much more capable track car, the F80 is more fickle.

Here's the problem. The F80 out of the box has a few minor flaws that require tweaking to make it right, and I get some of you gave up and never fell in love, whereas the E90 suffers less out of the box from these "fatal" flaws.

F80's active sound is terrible.
F80's 275 tires are an absolute mistake with this amount of power.
The base exhaust is meh. I get it many who have never driven it say it sounds "terrible". How you can have such a strong opinion with 0 experience is the world we live in I guess.


I have done 3 things with my F80 and it has changed my experience literally from night/day.

Coded out active sound
295 rear tires
MPE Exhaust

Stock for stock, I can totally see why some would never truly connect with the F80 if they had a non-comp pack car and didn't mod it right. But IMO if you tweak a few things, you now have a car that is in a different stratosphere performance wise while truly getting close to tugging at your heart strings like the E90 does.

I'm truly sorry that many people will write off the F80 without truly understanding it. It's like a hotter chick who went and listened to her Mom's outfit and makeup advice. The foundation is there, its just a little off in execution and requires more from "you" to make it right.

That's my take, I love the E90 but there is no way that the few things it does better than the F80 would make it so compelling to go backwards. It's a lot slower, looks a little dated, lacks tech, but it sounds better and has better steering feel. Pick your poison but to hear comments on here saying the E90 is the last of the true M cars makes it hard to take this forum seriously.

Most of us posting came from the F8x scene and I personally had 2 for over 3 years total. So I think you're kinda being short sighted here. We didn't write it off without experience.

My F80 was highly modded with HRE wheels, R compound 305s, coil overs, tune, full exhaust, etc. Still not as fun as my bone stock E92. The worst part is as you mod it just sounds worse and worse.

It did look good but I just didnt enjoy driving it and hated the sound to the point of cringing when I floored it.

[oolas3]

F80/F82 M3 forum has the most easily butt hurt owners I've ever seen.

[GRUESOM3]

I think the f80 chassis would be a great candidate for a swap once they become more attainable.

[BarbeRouge]

Originally Posted by oolas3

F80/F82 M3 forum has the most easily butt hurt owners I've ever seen.

you noticed too?

[jaehshim]

Originally Posted by neilum

100% honest opinion, the MPE sound far from awful. No, it's no S65. It can never be. NA V8 will always be in a class by itself sound wise. But, I seriously think its funny people think sounds awful. Have you honestly driven an MPE m3/m4?

It's also a fact the motor is far from what you think it is. This motor makes ~475 WHP with nothing but a piggyback/stage 1 tune. Crazy how this is just never mentioned? 475 wheel HP is just fun, let's be real. It's silly.

The N54 or N55 are about 380 WHP with the same thing, just a simple tune. The N55 even a little less.

I get it and admit the E90 has more character, but the F80 just seems WAY misunderstood, and at this point it's just people parroting a lot of information.

Yes, I've driven it. And it sounds terrible inside actually, just sounds so fake. That unpleasant fake bass tone fed through the speakers, driving especially on highway for 3~4 hrs +, it's just a terrible NOISE.
you ever driven the W205 C63 or old E63 with V8 turbo? it sounds awesome... you ever heard 5 cylinder turbo RS3 in person ? it sounds so distinctive (different from the MK7's inline 4) and nice...so don't tell me that the turbo game ruined the exhaust, that's bs...
No matter what you put on that thing, it just sounds terrible, period. An MPE 340i sounds about 10 times better in person.

I didn't say F80 doesn't make power. It makes GREAT power, and yes you can run the dyno, punch in WHP,BHP numbers all day and be proud...after all it's just a game of increasing psi of forced induction and fuel ratio, anyone can make power that way reliably today.
I can spend $7K and reliably build a SC 625~650hp with my S65. Oh, let's just take turbo for example
Anyone can go purchase a much cheaper 340i, spend less than $5K in his/her garage, tune and easily match a tuned F80.
Anyone can go purchase a W205 C63 amg, just on ecu tune will get you a 600whp/660lb torque.
Anyone can go purchase a MK7 GTI/Golf R/S3, spend $6K for a stage 3 tune and reliably run 500WHP.
Anyone can go purchase a used 997 turbo or a GTR, stock or simple tune will outrun F80 all day everyday
Better yet, a 4900lb electric sedan will outrun ANY stage built F80 M3, period.

But it's still an awesome engine inline 6 with 2 mitsubishi turbos, right? so BMW decided to put ionized water injection system, higher output hp, even better suspension, even more aggressive tune, lighter with cloth door handle, roll cage...and crazy $$$ tag with limited production...but it barely matches the performance of a much cheaper, much heavier, simple NA motor with traditional 6MT American Camaro/Mustang GT350 on track...hmm interesting...

Conclusion: the F80 didn't win much in the "mechanical feel/dynamic" part, but it isn't that impressive in number game either...There's a lot of competition that will do same or better performance easily and reliably.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by neilum

I get it and admit the E90 has more character, but the F80 just seems WAY misunderstood, and at this point it's just people parroting a lot of information.

I owned an F82, fully modified (exhaust, intake, suspension, tuned, etc.).

It looked great, and was quite fast, especially on a track when you can stay into it.

But riding around town, it just didn't do it for me. The engine/exhaust note left a lot to be desired for me. And I had a gorgeous silverstone/white interior to boot.

It's the character that's missing, and I didn't realize how much that would matter until I spent more time in E9Xs and in Porsches. I think the new Boxsters are special, they feels special. The Caymans too. Sure, there's a myriad of cars that are faster, and some even stick better (Vettes, Camaros, etc.).....but the sum of the parts, the little Porsches feel "right", even more so than 911s which have grown and now approach GT status. But even the 911s feel quite special, especially when you really get into the throttle.

So, yes, stat for stat, the F8X wins, just like a Vette Z06 or Camaro ZL1 has wayyyy more stats than an F8X for about the same price. But it's not all about the flat out speed and max handling, or else we'd all buy Vettes or Camaros, or we'd retune Audis or modify Evos and Subarus.

The E9X is not perfect, and neither is a Boxster (small, expensive with options, etc.) or a 911 (sterile and sublime when only cruising, not the fastest, etc.), but damn if they don't have something real special baked into their DNA.

But, pound for pound, the F8X platform is a hecuva car, and the new ZCPs have done a lot to make them even better. So enjoy it. We're all quite fortunate to be driving any of these cars, because for enthusiasts, they don't get much better than this, especially in the "every day driving" category.

[DSilk]

The biggest problems with the new platform are:

(1) The lack of any real steering feel

(2) The lack of a nice exhaust note

(3) The lack of a bespoke engine

Issue 2 can presumably be fixed. BMW still makes the nicest inline 6 on the planet, and the older ones generally sound great. Presumably a proper aftermarket exhaust (and elimination of the phony stereo-based soundtrack) can take care of this. Issue 3 unfortunately is becoming the norm with virtually all mass produced performance cars, most of which are using more highly tuned versions of the engines in their more pedestrian offerings (the Shelby Mustang and Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio are notable exceptions), so this may be something we need to get used to. Issue 1 for me is the killer, and takes the current M3/M4 off of my wish list, since I see no fix apart from a complete redesign.

[Not Sure]

Originally Posted by DSilk

The biggest problems with the new platform are:

(1) The lack of any real steering feel

(2) The lack of a nice exhaust note

(3) The lack of a bespoke engine

Issue 2 can presumably be fixed. BMW still makes the nicest inline 6 on the planet, and the older ones generally sound great. Presumably a proper aftermarket exhaust (and elimination of the phony stereo-based soundtrack) can take care of this. Issue 3 unfortunately is becoming the norm with virtually all mass produced performance cars, most of which are using more highly tuned versions of the engines in their more pedestrian offerings (the Shelby Mustang and Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio are notable exceptions), so this may be something we need to get used to. Issue 1 for me is the killer, and takes the current M3/M4 off of my wish list, since I see no fix apart from a complete redesign.

as far as sound goes, the S55 is hopeless, even with an aftermarket exhaust. have heard and driven several. i hope they going back to the drawing board for the G80.

[Obioban]

The F8X has 6 issues, which combined give me zero desire for one:
1) engine dynamics (not power)
2) steering feel (or lack there of)
3) the chassis is overpowered by the engine
4) Working on it sucks (which will be a bigger issue as they get older)
5) sounds like ass
6) it's too big to be able to really place it on the road (hard to make a nice line through a back road when your car is the width of a lane)

Only #5 can be changed with mods, and that's more theory than reality, imo-- I have yet to hear an aftermarket muffler on the F8X that I think sounds good. That's also true of the s54, but on the s54 you can have a super quiet muffler (including stock) and put a CSL airbox on it, and suddenly it sounds like you're driving a McLaren F1 (which makes sense, since the F1's engine was two high revving BMW I6's with a carbon airbox trumpeting their intake song)... which is not a viable solution on a turbo car.

The e9X is too cushy/heavy for me, personally, but I can see benefits to the car. It sounds glorious in any configuration, it still has steering feel, the engine is wonderfully dynamic and responsive. The F8X... every time I drive it I just dislike it. The size of the car, the (lack of) throttle response and (lack of) steering feel combine to make a car that I just don't enjoy driving hard-- on the street or on the track.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by Obioban

The F8X has 6 issues, which combined give me zero desire for one:
1) engine dynamics (not power)
2) steering feel (or lack there of)
3) the chassis is overpowered by the engine
4) Working on it sucks (which will be a bigger issue as they get older)
5) sounds like ass
6) it's too big to be able to really place it on the road (hard to make a nice line through a back road when your car is the width of a lane)

Only #5 can be changed with mods, and that's more theory than reality, imo-- I have yet to hear an aftermarket muffler on the F8X that I think sounds good. That's also true of the s54, but on the s54 you can have a super quiet muffler (including stock) and put a CSL airbox on it, and suddenly it sounds like you're driving a McLaren F1 (which makes sense, since the F1's engine was two high revving BMW I6's with a carbon airbox trumpeting their intake song)... which is not a viable solution on a turbo car.

The e9X is too cushy/heavy for me, personally, but I can see benefits to the car. It sounds glorious in any configuration, it still has steering feel, the engine is wonderfully dynamic and responsive. The F8X... every time I drive it I just dislike it. The size of the car, the (lack of) throttle response and (lack of) steering feel combine to make a car that I just don't enjoy driving hard-- on the street or on the track.

To be honest, stock to stock I found F82 to be much tauter than E92. You are absolutely right about E92 being cushy and heavy, hell I go back to E36 which feels just right in size, power and balance, but probably because it is relatively heavily modified (diff, springs, shocks, bucket seats...).

Thing about E92 is though, it turns in better than you think it would, responds better as you push more. For F82, it feels more like at the edge the whole time and not much after even if you push near the limit (thus what you would call "less" character compared to the older models).

As for throttle response... E92 has excellent throttle response, but E36 has the best throttle feel of all generations (including E30). E46 is kind of midway IMO Although I gotta admit I quite liked the coupe with PSS10 I testdrove some while ago, E36>>>E46.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Not Sure

as far as sound goes, the S55 is hopeless, even with an aftermarket exhaust. have heard and driven several. i hope they going back to the drawing board for the G80.

Yeah exhausts cannot fix it. IMO they just amplify it.

I had 5 different full systems on mine including AWE and AA which people say are the best sounding. They sounded better but they still sounded bad overall.