Running a Stage 2 tune w/ primary cats cause damage?

[Whitjct]

Question..... recently had to get my emissions done, brought my 08 M3 to a shop and had them put the factory xpipe on and instructed them to put the factory tune on it as I informed them I had a aftermarket stage 2 tune (alpine) because it was catless. No check engine light or code before I brought it to the shop.

Well morons put the the xpipe on then drove it around without putting the software back to factory. They called me and advised that my check engine light was now on and the code indicated my thermostat needed to be replaced. (They stated they were attempting to do a drive cycle on it, to which I asked what’s there process for that as I am aware our cars have a specific drive cycle To make the monitors ready....... There response was, we just drive it around. After a back and fourth i discovered they never changed the software to factory, I told them not to touch it and picked up the car.

My question is, will running a stage 2 tune with factory xpipe possibly cause a thermostat to fail? Or is this just a coincidence?

[SAMM3Y]

It will only take life off your primary cats, shouldn't hurt anything else.

[Ikejones]

Like how much life are we talking? I have a x pipe but got screwed and wasn’t sent the test pipes that go with it. So I was going to have the factory x cut out and this one out in. Figured it would let me pass emissions so it would be a win I have an alpine tune already and was going to put the stage 2 on it. Car has 72k

[SAMM3Y]

The whole point of the cold start is to warm up the cats gently and that typically is removed with a tune because of how loud it is and because you no longer have primaries. I would imagine if the car was ran hard around the track for the day it would also burn up the cats eventually and melt them. I'm sure they're fine if it was just done a few times around town

[SYT_Shadow]

For a little while I'm sure it's fine. Just don't be a bonehead like I was and track it like that, then lose an engine

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

For a little while I'm sure it's fine. Just don't be a bonehead like I was and track it like that, then lose an engine

Look on the bright side: if you had not blown that engine, would you have built a ballin stroker?

[wyatth]

Cold start improves cat efficiency and performance, but does not help the cats AFAIK. It’s for emissions, not cat longevity.
I thought stage 2 versus stage 1 was just turning off the O2s to prevent the CEL? If that’s true, then probably very little damage to cats driven on stage 2.
I don’t see how driving hard on this setup would be worse for the cats - stage 2 doesn’t alter AFRs, and I’ve never heard of OE primaries melting/crumbling.
I’d ask Alex directly?

[neilum]

Originally Posted by wyatth

Cold start improves cat efficiency and performance, but does not help the cats AFAIK. It’s for emissions, not cat longevity.
I thought stage 2 versus stage 1 was just turning off the O2s to prevent the CEL? If that’s true, then probably very little damage to cats driven on stage 2.
I don’t see how driving hard on this setup would be worse for the cats - stage 2 doesn’t alter AFRs, and I’ve never heard of OE primaries melting/crumbling.
I’d ask Alex directly?

I'm not a tuner but I'd imagine the timing variables are different between stg1 and 2, as well as Vanos settings. Sure AFR's won't change but more advanced timing will just make more power and work better without the oem cat restriction.

Maybe its as simple as the OEM cats just wont last very long if you really push it or track the car as the extra heat is outside of their operating range.

Not sure but in to learn if someone knows.

I got a stg 1 tune just the other day from Alex and I asked if I could go stg 2 with stock cats and he just said no, and didn't elaborate. I didn't want to get into it in the middle of flashing and doing the actual work.

[SAMM3Y]

Originally Posted by wyatth

Cold start improves cat efficiency and performance, but does not help the cats AFAIK. It’s for emissions, not cat longevity.
I thought stage 2 versus stage 1 was just turning off the O2s to prevent the CEL? If that’s true, then probably very little damage to cats driven on stage 2.
I don’t see how driving hard on this setup would be worse for the cats - stage 2 doesn’t alter AFRs, and I’ve never heard of OE primaries melting/crumbling.
I’d ask Alex directly?

Yes looks like you are correct and I'm completely wrong.. cold start apparently helps cold cats warm up quicker as cold cats don't properly catalyze exhaust fumes. I assumed primary cats closer to the engine run a risk of burning up and need to be heat cycled correctly.

[wyatth]

But would timing and vanos settings create more heat or impact the cats at all?

Regardless, I don’t see how such changes could materially impact the cats on a drive cycle like this.

[pbonsalb]

If catless, the tune can be optimized for the reduced backpressure by changing vanos settings to alter the cam timing. I don’t think many tuners change the ignition timing targets. From what I understand, the small power gains from a tune come mostly from changing the AFR targets to lean out the mixture.