Track forum general chit chat.

[b4hand]

I don't think anyone was flaming you, if you only do twice a year that makes sense, but there are some looking for the lightest, most performing kit. I know guys with the ZL1 here at cota running long sessions with little to no fade, so it's a good kit for sure.

[Bimmer Barney]

Fair. I’m being over sensitive. But anytime I or anyone mentions a retrofit kit, someone jumps in to say it’s junk without any real world experience. Just calling out the bs.

[1FastSicilian]

Originally Posted by b4hand

I don't think anyone was flaming you, if you only do twice a year that makes sense, but there are some looking for the lightest, most performing kit. I know guys with the ZL1 here at cota running long sessions with little to no fade, so it's a good kit for sure.

I'm pretty much in a similar boat as him..

I do 2-4 events a year if I'm lucky, and I'm by no means a "Fast" driver.

The 2 things that made me consider the ZL1 brakes are the looks, no knockback and the FCP euro rotors.

[redpriest]

I've run close to 100 track days on the original AP rotor on the rear wheels that Essex sent for my front/rear BBK, which is insane to me. I've gone through probably 4 sets of front rings in that time span.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by 1FastSicilian

are they fake? LOL I had no idea.. I was doing research and came across there website, seemed legit

yeah, they are fake/replica calipers, from what my research provides me.

plus only jritt@essex sells AP in the USA as the EXCLUSIVE.

so if its not thru one of his dealers...

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Barney

Fair. I’m being over sensitive. But anytime I or anyone mentions a retrofit kit, someone jumps in to say it’s junk without any real world experience. Just calling out the bs.

doing a F8X retrofit is fine... even the zl1 is fine..

but if you came in here and said you had a brembo bbk retrofit from a base model audi/cayenne... from SW with replica calipers... (even though they will claim they are real brembo, and they got called out for selling replica AP on IG)

then we got problems lol. cause the OEM brakes are 100x better at that point.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Barney

I knew I’d get flamed for running this kit. I always do. Neither of the flamers have run my setup so they don’t have any experience with the results.

As I said, I do think the AP kit would be better.

I am a very aggressive brake-er on track and normally run Laguna which is known to be hard on brakes. I have no issue running there. I can run 20 minute sessions, I can run 45 minutes sessions. No fade.

Lots of bench-racing commenters that want to argue bias technicality, heat soak, etc. hate on my brake setup, but it works and it was $2k. Others coming from C63 BS, 991.2 Carrera GTS, G82 M4 and have driven my car have all said my brakes are insane.

There are better systems out there at higher costs and are also closer to a motorsports product. If I tracked more than twice a year or was doing longer sessions, I’d dump more money into aftermarket because I’d be faster and probably make use of more advanced parts. There’s a small crowd of people that make use of the capability of the parts they bolt on. Most are in this thread. Many still, are like me: slow. Many of the slow guys spend a lot of money making their car look and capable of being fast, but not in their hands.

AP Racing > better than the rest, plain and simple. But that doesn’t mean the rest are junk. Also, Randy set fast times on stock brakes, so….

I’ve always told people spend as much money on the best products as you are comfortable spending without sacrificing safety. The closer you get to real race car stuff, the more fun you will have because after all, for the guys doing occasional track days we are really just out there pretending to be race car drivers.

YMMV.

AP is only better than the non PFC/Alcon stuff…

And the stock brakes can set the same lap time as any kit with the same bias, so not sure what your argument there is.

[slcook54]

What pace at Laguna on what tires and what fluid? I roasted stock brakes my first time out doing 1:47’s on PS4S. My best before it closed was 1:42 with just AP brakes and Ohlins. When it opens back up, I’m confident I’ll be sub 1:40.

[Bimmer Barney]

Last time I ran Laguna
1:44
Re-71R
Stock Suspension
Hawk DTC-70 pads
Junk Retrofit Brembos on front
Castro SRF

Randy
Fresh PS2
Stock E92
1:42

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by 1FastSicilian

Fellas,

Question for you all… I’m looking into BBKs but I have sort of a budget to adhere too.. trying to be around 5k for total kit. I can do this two ways… Stoptech kit or a Retrofit brembo kit with ZL1 calipers and rotors from FCP.

Any thoughts?

Yes.
For 3/4 track days a year I would get the Girodisk on the front (and rear if you want symetry), and the yellow pagid pads and staying with stock calipers.

Brakes are related to tires. It you are on 200tw tires the OEM brakes size will get you into ABS anyway. By focusing on braking less and lighter, carrying more speed, you will go faster. You mentioned LRP, there is very little braking happening at LRP.

[1FastSicilian]

Originally Posted by rhyary

Yes.
For 3/4 track days a year I would get the Girodisk on the front (and rear if you want symetry), and the yellow pagid pads and staying with stock calipers.

Brakes are related to tires. It you are on 200tw tires the OEM brakes size will get you into ABS anyway. By focusing on braking less and lighter, carrying more speed, you will go faster. You mentioned LRP, there is very little braking happening at LRP.

I’m running stock brakes now with Hawk track pads all around, SS brake lines and RT660 tires. I guess I’ll just order some brass guides for now.

At LRP, depending how fast I’d go through turns 3/4 and through the paul Newman straight, I’d brake before the right hander going up the hill and that’s when I’d notice the knockback on the Stoptechs

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by 1FastSicilian

At LRP, depending how fast I’d go through turns 3/4 and through the paul Newman straight, I’d brake before the right hander going up the hill and that’s when I’d notice the knockback on the Stoptechs

Understood,

There is light braking into 3
There is no braking into 4 (on the throttle between 3 and 4, shutting off the throttle before 4 to make the nose heavy)
There is no real braking into 5, there is light braking to settle the nose. Any brakes can do that so no need for BBK. And yes, if you need to move the pads into contact before light braking it does add another step before the flag station on the right.

I am not addressing the look. So if you want BBK, nothing wrong with it. The sport is a combination of wants, looks and performance combined into an experience. An experience is not objective like winning a race or setting best lap time. It is subjective and each one of us defines our own experience.

NYST has lots of light braking and with 18 turns you will have a problem with knockbacks. I experienced it mostly in 8-9-10

[1FastSicilian]

Originally Posted by rhyary

Understood,

There is light braking into 3
There is no braking into 4 (on the throttle between 3 and 4, shutting off the throttle before 4 to make the nose heavy)
There is no real braking into 5, there is light braking to settle the nose. Any brakes can do that so no need for BBK. And yes, if you need to move the pads into contact before light braking it does add another step before the flag station on the right.

I am not addressing the look. So if you want BBK, nothing wrong with it. The sport is a combination of wants, looks and performance combined into an experience. An experience is not objective like winning a race or setting best lap time. It is subjective and each one of us defines our own experience.

NYST has lots of light braking and with 18 turns you will have a problem with knockbacks. I experienced it mostly in 8-9-10

I’ll probably run through these hawk pads I have for the stock brakes and when they are done I’ll start considering a BBK.

I noticed the knockback there as well at NYST.

Maybe if you come to 6/30 event, I can have you tag along for a ride to give some pointers.

[okusa]

Is anyone aware of a simple, lightweight exhaust rear section that doesn't cause $3k? I can save a ton of weight by ditching my resonated steel rear section, but $3k is a bit much.

[turbo_joe]

Originally Posted by okusa

Is anyone aware of a simple, lightweight exhaust rear section that doesn't cause $3k? I can save a ton of weight by ditching my resonated steel rear section, but $3k is a bit much.

bimmerworld race exhaust

[okusa]

That's actually heavier than what I have an nearly 30 lbs.

[//steve\\]

Originally Posted by okusa

Is anyone aware of a simple, lightweight exhaust rear section that doesn't cause $3k? I can save a ton of weight by ditching my resonated steel rear section, but $3k is a bit much.

Akra rear sections pretty regular come up for well under $3k. Myself and a local both got one recently shipped to us for a number closer to $2k than $3k.

[turbo_joe]

Originally Posted by okusa

That's actually heavier than what I have an nearly 30 lbs.

Straight pipe the car for super cheap

Thats what I did lol

[okusa]

Originally Posted by turbo_joe

Straight pipe the car for super cheap

Thats what I did lol

That’s what I want. Please point me in the right direction because I quoted over $3k for a straight pipe titanium setup.

[turbo_joe]

Originally Posted by okusa

That’s what I want. Please point me in the right direction because I quoted over $3k for a straight pipe titanium setup.

I do not have titanium as I am not as concerned about weight. I already have to run about 50lbs of ballast for my class.

Me and a friend built my setup in my garage by cutting up the bimmerworld race exhaust and welding on some 2.5" stainless pipe. My system is designed to work with my rear diffuser though.

It is obnoxiously loud on the street and do not recommend it unless your car is a full race car.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by okusa

That’s what I want. Please point me in the right direction because I quoted over $3k for a straight pipe titanium setup.

that's about right, you need like 144ft of TI Tubing to cover left and right.

so that's about 1200 w/shipping in material alone depending if 144FT is what you need...

then you have mock up and the endless amount of pie cuts that's going to happen if you are trying to maintain factory style piping.

plus you know with Ti you cant just weld it, cap, gas, and then magic.

so $1500 in labor doesn't seem wrong.

you can try hitting up a friend of mine at Rival Autoworks his name is Jason. or richard at bsidefabrication (located inside apexi usa)

ALSO important, you might want to just vband the xpipe and rear section.. it's a pain to make the same donut flange for oem fitment.

edit: i meant 144" inches

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

that's about right, you need like 144ft of TI Tubing to cover left and right.

so that's about 1200 w/shipping in material alone depending if 144FT is what you need...

then you have mock up and the endless amount of pie cuts that's going to happen if you are trying to maintain factory style piping.

plus you know with Ti you cant just weld it, cap, gas, and then magic.

so $1500 in labor doesn't seem wrong.

you can try hitting up a friend of mine at Rival Autoworks his name is Jason. or richard at bsidefabrication (located inside apexi usa)

ALSO important, you might want to just vband the xpipe and rear section.. it's a pain to make the same donut flange for oem fitment.

Price it out via Ticon. Slipfits are all you need, no one is using those donut flanges things. If you really wanted to save weight you could just dump it immediately after the diff.

How did you get 144 FT of tube? Yes you can make hand make pie cuts, but if you’re able to mock it up it’s easier to get either pre bent angles, welded pie cuts, or even individuals pie cuts.