|
|
03-16-2022, 12:54 PM | #1 |
Alex - IG @screamer
718
Rep 508
Posts |
Alcon BBK via Bimmerworld or AP Racing Pro 5000R?
Hey everyone,
Looking to get some feedback regarding which is a better performing BBK setup. I’m sure I can’t go wrong with either, but any feedback is welcome. Option 1: AP Racing Pro 5000R (Front CP9660 372mm and Rear CP5040 340mm BBK) Option 2: Alcon CR6420 380mm front and Alcon CAR4949 355mm rear BBK. Sincerely, Alex
__________________
Instagram: @screamer
- 2013 Subaru STi Hatch - White - Racecar - 2011 BMW E92 M3 - Moonstone - Collector Car - 2008 BMW E90 M3 - Silverstone - Racecar |
03-16-2022, 01:36 PM | #2 |
Brigadier General
4059
Rep 3,458
Posts |
Not apples to apples - AP would be 9668.
However, in your specific comparison the Alcon is the superior setup namely because of the 25mm pads. You'll undoubtedly get a bunch of AP distrust coming in 5 4 3…. I have Essex AP 9668/9449 and they have been excellent.
__________________
Not a Doctor, those are just my initials.
|
Appreciate
5
|
03-16-2022, 01:45 PM | #3 |
First Lieutenant
294
Rep 354
Posts |
They're both going to be really good. Yeah the 9668 AP Caliper in the front is the apples to apples comparison.
You won't be disappointed with either setup. I would go for whichever one you feel you can get good support and parts from in the long term.
__________________
'18 Fire Orange F80 M3 - 6spd, ZCP, full M-performance catalog, Forgeline GA1R
'95 E36 M3 - Widebody S54, PTG Tribute, 315s square, TC Design built racecar Instagram - @Boondogglegarage |
Appreciate
1
reidetailing718.00 |
03-16-2022, 01:49 PM | #4 |
Lieutenant Colonel
519
Rep 1,730
Posts |
Love my AP's. Can't complain about them.
__________________
2018 Grigio Telesto F80 M3 DCT | :: Bone Stock :: 2004 Titanium Silver E46 M3 6 Speed | :: Track Car :: |
Appreciate
2
reidetailing718.00 Sammy8292.00 |
03-16-2022, 04:06 PM | #5 |
Stop the hate, get a V8
3858
Rep 8,625
Posts |
Why not a PFC BBK?
FWIW, I would pick the AP. It's a legit race kit you see on race cars. Alcon is trickier to get serviced and has less selection in pads.
__________________
Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport, 2021 AMG C63 S sedan
Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP |
Appreciate
3
|
03-16-2022, 05:51 PM | #6 |
Major
534
Rep 1,427
Posts |
|
Appreciate
1
reidetailing718.00 |
03-16-2022, 06:05 PM | #7 |
Colonel
5380
Rep 2,813
Posts
Drives: '09 E90 M3 - IB
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: 93 million miles from the Sun
|
Been an AP user for 10 years. Have had two different kits—the older CP5555 kit and the 9668/9449 kit. (I still have the old kit on my steeet E92 M3.) Never had an overheat. Never had brake fade. Super strong stopping power with high torque pads. The calipers don’t need any attention between rebuilds. With SRF, you bleed them once every 8-12 months.
Essex service is nice when you need rebuilds. I rebuild every couple years. The biggest annoyance is that sometimes one pad will wear quicker than the others. Just need to keep an eye on them and maybe rotate. I believe this can be track dependent. Also, on the 9668, don’t use the spring clips for pad retention. Use the bolts and blocks. The pads wear REALLLLY uneven with the spring clips in my experience. Some (SYT_Shadow) get pad tapering. I haven’t seen that on my kits. Last edited by dogbone; 03-17-2022 at 10:39 AM.. |
Appreciate
5
|
03-16-2022, 08:24 PM | #9 | |
Captain
1865
Rep 893
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
Instagram: slcook54
|
|
Appreciate
1
reidetailing718.00 |
03-16-2022, 08:43 PM | #10 |
Captain
989
Rep 981
Posts |
NA support for Alcon seems minimal. NA support for Essex is quite good, they are fairly active on the forums, and have always been willing to answer my stupid questions.
PFC makes an extremely good kit. Maybe one of the better kits. Good luck finding one though. |
Appreciate
3
|
03-16-2022, 10:11 PM | #11 |
Alex - IG @screamer
718
Rep 508
Posts |
Thanks everyone for your feedback!
__________________
Instagram: @screamer
- 2013 Subaru STi Hatch - White - Racecar - 2011 BMW E92 M3 - Moonstone - Collector Car - 2008 BMW E90 M3 - Silverstone - Racecar |
Appreciate
0
|
03-16-2022, 10:18 PM | #12 | |
Colonel
5380
Rep 2,813
Posts
Drives: '09 E90 M3 - IB
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: 93 million miles from the Sun
|
Quote:
Front: XR1 Rear: XR2 I don’t recommend XR1 if you don’t have slicks. If you don’t run slicks, then go Front-XR2, Rear-XR3. |
|
03-17-2022, 07:09 AM | #13 |
Major
434
Rep 1,286
Posts |
If you don’t run slicks, then go Front-XR2, Rear-XR3.
This is what I ran on my dual purpose E90 with PFC kit. I was running anything from AD08R, RE-71R to Cup2s and pad life and rotor life in particular were excellent. Great pads. Cobalt friction has been sold to a new owner, hopefully they haven't changed the composition of the compounds. |
Appreciate
1
slcook541865.00 |
03-17-2022, 10:05 AM | #14 | |
Colonel
5380
Rep 2,813
Posts
Drives: '09 E90 M3 - IB
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: 93 million miles from the Sun
|
Quote:
Btw, the pad shapes for Cobalt Friction in the AP RadiCal are: 9668 or 9660 - AP19 (specify thickness) 9449 - AP13 |
|
Appreciate
5
|
03-18-2022, 05:09 PM | #15 | |
Lieutenant
344
Rep 410
Posts
Drives: E92 M3, E46 M3, E89 Z4
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Portland, OR
|
Quote:
I run the XR2s all the way around with non-slick tires, AP 5000 up front and OEM rears on my E46. Even with the XR2s they have a lot of bite for street tires. Still easy to lock-up the fronts on my E46 if you don't threshold brake. Driven several E92s with the AP kit and Cobalt XR2s, and they're amazing on this platform as well. * Disclaimer: he was flying back here to Portland anyway. LOL |
|
03-18-2022, 05:59 PM | #16 | |
Colonel
5380
Rep 2,813
Posts
Drives: '09 E90 M3 - IB
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: 93 million miles from the Sun
|
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
1
PrimeBMW667.50 |
03-30-2022, 01:51 PM | #17 |
Colonel
994
Rep 2,493
Posts |
Im currently looking for a new BBK and ive been (3 years) on the PFC BBK front and rear which is by far the best brakes i have ever tested. Ive tested all of them and i absolutely love my PFC's but their customer service is by far the worst. Ive been waiting on Rotors since last June and still NOTHING! i emailed and called them over the early fall and winter and nothing. Bimmerworld cant even give me an answer to whats going on with them and BIMMERWORLD is a supplier!!!!!
So im leaning towards AP's now because of their support. |
Appreciate
2
slcook541865.00 reidetailing718.00 |
03-30-2022, 02:24 PM | #18 | |
Stop the hate, get a V8
3858
Rep 8,625
Posts |
Quote:
Yeah PFC doesn't give a shit about anything besides their race car support, as that's likely where they make most of their money. I was trying to get the 08 or 11 compounds made for my Corvette's OEM Brembos (which is a super common caliper) but it took me months of calling and emailing before I even spoke with someone who was like "lol no".
__________________
Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport, 2021 AMG C63 S sedan
Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-30-2022, 03:05 PM | #19 | ||
Colonel
994
Rep 2,493
Posts |
Quote:
|
||
Appreciate
0
|
03-30-2022, 06:32 PM | #20 | |
Private First Class
45
Rep 148
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
04-04-2022, 09:05 AM | #21 |
Lieutenant
490
Rep 501
Posts |
AP 9668 FTW
Hit up Jason at OG shark, and he'll get you a better deal than you see on AP's site. Plus great support all around.
__________________
IG: @M3spooni
|
Appreciate
4
|
04-09-2022, 03:57 PM | #22 |
///M Powered for Life
11736
Rep 10,457
Posts |
We've had PFC, the BimmerWorld-Alcon and the AP Radical rear
PFC is top shelf. The fattest pads which also happen to be cheapest. We still have one full BBK and a second front-only PFC. It's good enough that we spent a long time in Solidworks and 3D printing to get front brackets built for our F8X as PFC does not officially support the F. The Z54/45 kit properly sends bias to the rear of the car. 28mm front, 20mm rear pad. We continue to get this serviced without issues, at least so far. We've been hearing about gloom and doom for years regarding PFC service, so far everything is in stock at BimmerWorld and we're yet to have any kind of issue, whether it's rotors, hats, pads or rebuild kits for the pistons/seals. The PFC rotors are cast in the US and are cut without using lubricating oil. Massive cost difference but that avoids the rotor from absorbing oil which will bleed out during use. Front and rear pads come out completely flat with no taper despite being the fattest pads of all. The Bimmerworld-Alcon kit is the new hotness. We've run it for two seasons. It has a 36mm front rotor (vs 32-34mm PFC/AP) and that makes a huge difference in durability and heat dissipation/thermal stability. 25mm front, 23mm rear. It sends bias to the rear of the car. A 36mm front rotor cannot be understood properly until you hold one in your hands. It is absolutely insane. So far we have never managed to crack one all the way through. 50% more durability than the PFC rotor which was otherwise the reigning champion. Excellent pad options as well. The front uses the same pad shape as the AP big kit and has all the newer PFC compounds. The front and rear rotors always come prebedded, a very nice plus The AP Radical seems to get a lot of love here. We are not among the fans. They were on the car four events and we quickly tired of pad taper making the rear 17mm pad even less effective than it would be otherwise as well as rotor life that seemed more like a stock brake than a BBK. I heard they redesigned them, but we clearly remember their sales guy telling us all how their rotors were vastly superior to the PFC rotor, then we run them, they last half of a PFC rotor and they eventually get redesigned. I abhor marketing bullshit when it comes to track stuff. The Turner M4 GT4 cars have Girodisc rotor conversions added to the spec AP kit and I'm not one bit surprised. We still have the two sets of rear pads we ran that are tapered enough to build a triangle when you stack them. When you have a 17mm pad to begin with and then you get 5mm of taper, you're screwed. The kit was sold after four events and we committed to building a rear PFC adapter, then BimmerWorld launched the Alcons and we went to that instead. Possible reasons for our lackluster experience with APs: -We run full weight cars with no aero and punish the brakes more than people running 6 seconds faster that are lightened and have aero. And we do that for an hour at a time as we double-track cars. This is likely the most savage use of a brake kit. -Not many people here go through one 25-28mm pad in one weekend, but we do. Every weekend. A few times we have gone through one 28-25mm pad in a single day! -We came from a PFC kit and clearly felt the downgrade with the AP. I'm sure if one comes from stock then APs feel pretty awesome -My brother and I are both mechanical engineers with grad degrees in engineering as well. We understand the theory behind the cool shape of the Radical, but the results need to be there. They are not. It is clear to us that in the pursuit of a sexy shape they cut out too much material and compromised rigidity. You see this for example where the PFC has three cross-bolts per side but the AP Radical has two: where the third one would go there is a nice cutout to lighten the caliper. As luck would have it, our two sets of nickel plated BW-Alcons won't be ready until June so... GTS1 has stock calipers with Giro rotors and GTS2 has the PFC front and AP rear. Yes, we bought our old AP kit back and will use it for the first half of the season. Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 04-09-2022 at 05:50 PM.. |
Appreciate
5
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|