HPDE experiments, results and observations

[rhyary]

This should not stop you from enjoying HPDE.
.
.

[rhyary]

A big weather front was building up so it was time to test my "rain" set. Mounted the 285/30/19 Continental DWS+ and Cooper RS-G1 305/30/19. Waited for the gusts of wind to die down, and went out in torrential rain to see what will happen.

A fly in the test ointment was no traction control or ABS since I am waiting for the speed sensors to come from FCP Euro.

So not bad at 70mph and flooded highway.
But I am not sure how it translates to HPDE in the rain.

With traction control on, I can see if the traction light is flickering. I tried accelerating and braking but not swerving and taking exits.

[Not Sure]

In case anyone with a track-focused DCT M3 might be interested, I am selling a BNIB TTV lightweight flywheel here for basically half price. Top quality upgrade but my priorities and plans for my car have changed since I bought it.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by rhyary

A big weather front was building up so it was time to test my "rain" set. Mounted the 285/30/19 Continental DWS+ and Cooper RS-G1 305/30/19. Waited for the gusts of wind to die down, and went out in torrential rain to see what will happen.

A fly in the test ointment was no traction control or ABS since I am waiting for the speed sensors to come from FCP Euro.

So not bad at 70mph and flooded highway.
But I am not sure how it translates to HPDE in the rain.

With traction control on, I can see if the traction light is flickering. I tried accelerating and braking but not swerving and taking exits.

Even your wet setup is mismatched? XD

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by tsk94

Even your wet setup is mismatched? XD

The tires are not mismatched.
They simply made by two different companies.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by rhyary

The tires are not mismatched.
They simply made by two different companies.

Good response.

[rhyary]

Testing UHP All seasons tires in the rain

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by rhyary

This is how short I am from breaking 60sec.

Advice and opinions are welcomed.

brake that distance deeper and harder into turn 1 and you'll be a lot closer. be smooth but firm with the brakes.

also, is that brake indicator pretty close to indication of your relative pedal position? like is it at 50% when you're at about 50% of braking capabilities?

[rhyary]

My last day at LRP my chassis stability light went off and I lost the ABS. When I got home and read codes it said rear left speed sensor.

Anyway, half day with no ABS made me think. While I reduced my pace from 60sec to 61sec a lap, I kind of enjoyed the control and trying not locking up.

So I was thinking…..
I can take the bad sensor and cut the wire.
Every time I want to play with no ABS, I can remove the functioning sensor (one bolt) and tie it up safely out of the way, and install a dummy.

I was told there is a fuse that might do the same, but I don't know what else the fuse controls. This way it is a simple one bolt operation.

Cut the wire at the blue X and use it as dummy

[tsk94]

Sure.. but why? What are you going to learn doing this that you can't learn with ABS active? It's pretty straight forward to feel (and hear) when ABS is activating. You can practice the same method of threshold braking while ABS is active, as you could with it disabled.

It would also probably be much more straight forward to just remove the ABS/DSC fuse if you want a quick way to switch it on/off. The fuse should just control the ABS and DSC systems. But again, I don't see the point. This is coming from someone who's driven race cars with and without ABS.

Again I just don't see the point. With modern technology and how ABS and ABS programming is improving, it seems quite pointless. The MK60 system in the E9X is quite sophisticated and you should use it to your advantage. There is a real art to proper braking technique even with ABS and incorporating ABS into the braking phase. Most modern GT3 race cars have ABS, and when you listen to drivers talk, the real key to braking in these cars is activating the ABS in the correct point in the braking phase, and with the correct amount of ABS intervention. I would be more concerned with fine tuning your braking skills with ABS, rather then without. Unless you plan on buying a pre-90's race car for track use in the near future (which wouldn't have ABS)?

[rhyary]

@tsk94 ,
You approaching my post from purely technical view.

What I said is that I enjoyed the challenge of driving without the ABS. Same as I enjoy driving without the traction control. I feel more connected to the car.

For today at LRP and tomorrow at PMP it is a mute point. After replacing the rear left speed sensor it now gives me error on the left front sensor and I still have no ABS. So perhaps something else is happening.

I ordered the front sensors just in case but the sensors will not arrive before mid week.

So I will have to enjoy the car with the dash flashes warning lights every 5 sec which I hate.

Car is going to ACM for winter projects after my last day which is LRP on Nov 5th. So until then I am just driving what I got.

For today I have front stickers RE-71R 265/35/19 on the front ($182/tire from TR) and second day RR 295/30/19

Temps will be mid 50 so good for the engine.

[roastbeef]

You could just brake without activating abs and enjoy the challenge without potentially ruining tires.

Basically what you're saying is you enjoy the thrill of potentially ruining tires.

[Bartledoo]

Just turn off traction control and hold the throttle pedal down next time you get the rear loose…you’ll forget all about this thrill of non-abs ;-)

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

You could just brake without activating abs and enjoy the challenge without potentially ruining tires.

Basically what you're saying is you enjoy the thrill of potentially ruining tires.

Exactly! That's what I was saying. You can have the challenge of not locking a wheel while ABS is still active, if that's what he's looking for. As I mentioned, it's pretty obvious when you're using the ABS vs. not..

[rhyary]

AIM says I lost wheel speed on the front left last track day.

Instead of reading codes which first said Left Rear and now says Left Front, I should have looked at the data.

I forgot AIM show me wheel speed. Idiot.

Anyway, the issue is, I am afraid, not the wheel speed sensor but the hub.

I did not go out last session yesterday as I felt and heard noises that could have been tires, or plastic rubbing. But I was on sticker RE-71R and the chances that the tires are gone at LRP after one day are slim to none. This is no NYST.

On the way home I was driving with whamp…whamp…whamp rotation noise that got worse if I turned to the left and quite down if applied light brakes.

When I got home I mounted a fresh set of my all season tires and the noise was the same. Left Front.

I give up going to PMP today which I don't do lightly. I don't give up on trackdays.

Instead, I am tearing up the front left to see if I can diagnose the issue.

I have the F80 14mm hubs and they have two seasons on them for about 60 trackdays - some open track and some double sessions. So I don't know if this is reasonable life expectancy or it would a short life.

What does a bad wheel bearing look like? The unit is a sealed unit so I don't think I can see what's inside

Perhaps someone know ?

[rhyary]

Lap times at LRP with no ABS were similar to driving with ABS but I used the brake differently. More like wet day although it was dry.

I started braking at the 6 mark, and stayed no more than 800psi. Worked mainly on entry speed into corners.

Heavy traffic and many laps on 61 with best laps at 60.50-60.80

In general it was not a great day for some reason.

My rear I set my rear tires to 25 RL and 27psi RR. They equalized on 39 hot during the session with tire temperature not hot enough like on the 15th. The rear as not as planted. The day was almost 10* colder.

Dropped the pressure to 32 hot and it was better. Added +1 on front LS and +1 on HS.

Last when I was there in 275/30 the short side wall needed a softer front. Now back on 265/35 it was noticeable softer and had to increase the JRZ to compensate for the taller sidewall.

The 275/30 has a remarkable short sidewall (82.5mm) and while it felt good and it was fast, it felt like driving on the rims. So I don't think I will perusing this direction. The fit is excellent and the RT660 was excellent but too expensive to pursue.

The 265/35 RT660 was just as fast and just as expensive. Now that I have an inventory of the 265/35 RE-71R it will be my front for awhile.

[tsk94]

Sounds like a wheel bearing by your description.. There will be nothing to see, just hear and feel. If there's play when you shake the tire up and down (when it's off the ground), the wheel bearing is toast.

[rhyary]

Wheel bearing confirmed.
Time to call Core4 for the rescue

[rhyary]

Core4 F80 wheel bearing received, installed and test drove. No codes.

I was planning to make video of the new one making no noise. But it was pointless. The new one is so smooth and quite that it makes a bad wheel bearing obvious.

So Nov 5th at LRP is on!

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by rhyary

Core4 F80 wheel bearing received, installed and test drove. No codes.

I was planning to make video of the new one making no noise. But it was pointless. The new one is so smooth and quite that it makes a bad wheel bearing obvious.

So Nov 5th at LRP is on!

Sub-60 day?

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by tsk94

Sub-60 day?

Sure. On all season tires :-)

[rhyary]

Weather forecast looks good to experiment with UHP All season. I am interested to see how these tires come up to temperature.

Now that I can log and monitor the pressure and temp I am curious to see if I can get more temp into the tires than the RR and the RE-71R on a cold day.

For sure, driving to LRP at sub 40* would be a lot more safer and comforting.