Vanos adjuster unit issue - cover

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

Because Russia. The land of willful suffering and masochism. And apparently where its preferred to tempt the German S65 lottery gods.

*this was written with humor in mind, don't come at me*

As someone whose entire family is Russian/Ukranian:

[SkinnedKnuckles]

Update:

Put the two new adjustment units in (inlet camshaft units on both sides), to replace the ones that had the slightly-rotated caps/covers.

Everything seems to be ok.

Replaced chain tensioners, valve cover gaskets, timing cover gaskets, spark plugs, plug tubes, etc while I was at it. Also replaced the deflection pulley on the AC belt (bearing was slightly loose).

Weird ticking/clacking noise is mostly gone. Mostly gone. Still a faint unusual sound - perhaps it is the only pulley that I didn't check - the alternator belt tensioner - because I replaced the alternator about 6 months ago and it was ok then.... should've checked it again and will do so soon!!

Was a fairly big job, not too difficult just lots of steps and details to follow.. Online manual was a must for torquing steps etc.
Also had to buy special tool for locking camshafts, and a left-hand (torque-both-ways) torque wrench for the central screws on the adjustment units. All good.

Also removed, inspected and cleaned the 4 vanos solenoids - they were all remarkably clean - pays to keep the oil fresh! I've seen some nasty photos of gunked up ones online; not sure how they get so dirty...

Also replaced the o-rings on the exhaust side adjustment units. Bought some viton ones from the o-ring shop for a couple of dollars each. Worth doing while in there!

Replaced engine mounts also, the old ones had compressed and the engine was sitting lower than it should have been - by about 7-8mm !!!
This meant that the oil pan was almost contacting the aluminium plate below it (near the rear drain plug), and the steering rack was also almost making contact (i will post some pics later).

Anyway, she runs and thankfully no oil leaks from the gaskets (stoopid valve cover coating is rubbish; starting to peel and bubble etc).

I was lucky to find one of the adjuster units on ebay for about $700 and the other from ECS/Turner for about $1600 (aud). Both brand new. Quite a few days of work involved, slow going and cleaning/inspecting stuff along the way. Therapeutic!

If I had driven it to the dealer, they would have charged me $3000 each (!!) for the adjustment units, probably about $1000-1500 for the other parts (tensioners, gaskets, plugs, bolts etc), and who-knows-what for labour!?! The dealer rate here in Australia is about $225 an hour or something stupid. Whole thing probably (EDIT: DEFINITELY) would have cost me >$10,000. Heck, they want $135 just to check and clear fault codes FFS. LOL.

Will get some pics together soon.


Thanks to all here who commented/contributed/explained/assisted - much appreciated!!

[toolshed]

already 8000 km done. everything's just fine.

[bibus2527]

I really enjoy reading this thread, as my M3 is throwing the same codes

Fault code: 00271D
Fault explanation: VANOS Control outlet bank 2.
Fault code: 002796
Fault explanation: Engine emergency program activated.

Goes into Limp Mode a few minutes after startup
Tested Vanos Solenoid, Cam sensors, even no return valve. All OK
Checked with INPA, Vanos just does not follow the set values of 128 at idle and stays at 98 but drives down when setpoint changed to 93
So either a pressure leak or the Vanos controller stuck.
Looks like I will have to open it up and do more checks.
What else can be wrong? here is my check list:
- Oil delivery pressure, Seals on the cam shaft and seal on the valve adjuster
- Valve adjuster itself

What part did you guys change? Seals, Screws etc

Also would anyone like to sell or lend the Cam alignment tools? can do a Paypal deposit or what not. Not a toll one would use every day.

Any feedback please.

[bibus2527]

Screen shots

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by bibus2527

Screen shots

That looks like you just need to replace the one VANOS adjuster.

[toolshed]

15k km done without vanos caps and without any issues

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by toolshed

15k km done without vanos caps and without any issues

You tryin to get others to go capless with you or something?

[toolshed]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

You tryin to get others to go capless with you or something?

no, I'm just telling that cap doesn't hold spring on its place.
and those caps do not protect valve covers from holes made by springs' ends )

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by toolshed

no, I'm just telling that cap doesn't hold spring on its place.
and those caps do not protect valve covers from holes made by springs' ends )

Then what is your explanation for the pictures in posts 15, 24, and 43?

1. What caused that damage to the valve cover and timing chain cover?

2. Why did the damage re-occur when the caps were left off?

3. Why has the damage not re-occurred since the solenoids were replaced with caps?

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by toolshed

no, I'm just telling that cap doesn't hold spring on its place.
and those caps do not protect valve covers from holes made by springs' ends )

I see that you believe you've proved something based on the time without any consequence.

So, if I walk blindfolded across the street without getting hit some relatively large number of times, would it prove that looking both ways doesn't actually prevent getting hit by a car?

[deansbimmer]

Just got another S65 in the shop for a full tear down due to missing VANOS covers. The covers came off and broke up inside the crankcase, clogging the oil pickups and starving the bearings of oil. I took pictures this time.

The VANOS spring on the intake cam had popped off since there was no cover to keep the spring coil from walking forward. The spring ground away material from the rocker cover and front of the head, which ended up in the oil.

The owner caught on quickly that something was a miss, but it was still too late and the damage had been done.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

Just got another S65 in the shop for a full tear down due to missing VANOS covers. The covers came off and broke up inside the crankcase, clogging the oil pickups and starving the bearings of oil. I took pictures this time.

The VANOS spring on the intake cam had popped off since there was no cover to keep the spring coil from walking forward. The spring ground away material from the rocker cover and front of the head, which ended up in the oil.

The owner caught on quickly that something was a miss, but it was still too late and the damage had been done.

Wow, this post is PTSD-material for me. Crazy to see how similar the damage is to my example. My valve cover and timing chain cover were ground down almost identically. I guess I should thank my lucky stars that my engine didn't grenade like this one did - I've been trouble-free for 40k miles since this happened. *knocking on wood*

Any chance you took some pictures of the metal shavings that came out of the oil filter? What tipped the owner off that something was wrong? I wouldn't have known had the car not developed an oil leak through the ground down corner of the valve cover.

[DOCTOR.Y]

Originally Posted by SkinnedKnuckles

Update:

Put the two new adjustment units in (inlet camshaft units on both sides), to replace the ones that had the slightly-rotated caps/covers.

Everything seems to be ok.

Replaced chain tensioners, valve cover gaskets, timing cover gaskets, spark plugs, plug tubes, etc while I was at it. Also replaced the deflection pulley on the AC belt (bearing was slightly loose).

Weird ticking/clacking noise is mostly gone. Mostly gone. Still a faint unusual sound - perhaps it is the only pulley that I didn't check - the alternator belt tensioner - because I replaced the alternator about 6 months ago and it was ok then.... should've checked it again and will do so soon!!

Was a fairly big job, not too difficult just lots of steps and details to follow.. Online manual was a must for torquing steps etc.
Also had to buy special tool for locking camshafts, and a left-hand (torque-both-ways) torque wrench for the central screws on the adjustment units. All good.

Also removed, inspected and cleaned the 4 vanos solenoids - they were all remarkably clean - pays to keep the oil fresh! I've seen some nasty photos of gunked up ones online; not sure how they get so dirty...

Also replaced the o-rings on the exhaust side adjustment units. Bought some viton ones from the o-ring shop for a couple of dollars each. Worth doing while in there!

Replaced engine mounts also, the old ones had compressed and the engine was sitting lower than it should have been - by about 7-8mm !!!
This meant that the oil pan was almost contacting the aluminium plate below it (near the rear drain plug), and the steering rack was also almost making contact (i will post some pics later).

Anyway, she runs and thankfully no oil leaks from the gaskets (stoopid valve cover coating is rubbish; starting to peel and bubble etc).

I was lucky to find one of the adjuster units on ebay for about $700 and the other from ECS/Turner for about $1600 (aud). Both brand new. Quite a few days of work involved, slow going and cleaning/inspecting stuff along the way. Therapeutic!

If I had driven it to the dealer, they would have charged me $3000 each (!!) for the adjustment units, probably about $1000-1500 for the other parts (tensioners, gaskets, plugs, bolts etc), and who-knows-what for labour!?! The dealer rate here in Australia is about $225 an hour or something stupid. Whole thing probably (EDIT: DEFINITELY) would have cost me >$10,000. Heck, they want $135 just to check and clear fault codes FFS. LOL.

Will get some pics together soon.


Thanks to all here who commented/contributed/explained/assisted - much appreciated!!

Hi OP,

Is this your noise?

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1659505

[Harryc9]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

Just got another S65 in the shop for a full tear down due to missing VANOS covers. The covers came off and broke up inside the crankcase, clogging the oil pickups and starving the bearings of oil. I took pictures this time.

The VANOS spring on the intake cam had popped off since there was no cover to keep the spring coil from walking forward. The spring ground away material from the rocker cover and front of the head, which ended up in the oil.

The owner caught on quickly that something was a miss, but it was still too late and the damage had been done.

Thanks for your insight into this failure.

I've been recommended to buy a set of (four) Aluminium 'Slon workshop' VANOS spring covers to preventatively replace my plastic covers (see page 1 of this thread for photos - unsure how to upload myself):

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1866437

I would never normally use any non-factory equipment on my car, so I have some questions that you may be able to help with?:

Would I ever need to remove these plastic spring covers for maintenance purposes?
Do the plastic covers hook onto a recess in the VANOS body with tabs?
Do the plastic covers get retained (at the centre) by the VANOS stretch bolt?
Do the plastic covers use a radial tab to prevent them rotating?
is the mass of the plastic covers important - would imbalanced aluminium equivalents rotating at 16,800rpm be a recipe for disaster in your eyes?

Thanks

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by Harryc9

Thanks for your insight into this failure.

I've been recommended to buy a set of (four) Aluminium 'Slon workshop' VANOS spring covers to preventatively replace my plastic covers (see page 1 of this thread for photos - unsure how to upload myself):

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1866437

I would never normally use any non-factory equipment on my car, so I have some questions that you may be able to help with?:

Would I ever need to remove these plastic spring covers for maintenance purposes?
Do the plastic covers hook onto a recess in the VANOS body with tabs?
Do the plastic covers get retained (at the centre) by the VANOS stretch bolt?
Do the plastic covers use a radial tab to prevent them rotating?
is the mass of the plastic covers important - would imbalanced aluminium equivalents rotating at 16,800rpm be a recipe for disaster in your eyes?

Thanks

That piece is a direct replacement solution for the plastic cover, but made instead from aluminum. It seems to be a new part on the market, I don't know how much real world testing has been done, if any. The plastic cover has anti-rotation tabs, but they can still spin. They're not held captive by the central bolt.

We've made steel covers which replace the central bolt's washer to offer a completely captive solution.

Also, the cams rotate at half crankshaft rpm.

[Harryc9]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

That piece is a direct replacement solution for the plastic cover, but made instead from aluminum. It seems to be a new part on the market, I don't know how much real world testing has been done, if any. The plastic cover has anti-rotation tabs, but they can still spin. They're not held captive by the central bolt.

We've made steel covers which replace the central bolt's washer to offer a completely captive solution.

Also, the cams rotate at half crankshaft rpm.

Thanks, Deansbimmer.

When I emailed, the seller said he'd sold about 50 sets, tested in street and track cars. But he didn't mention a warranty or any revisions made.

Thanks for the info on the plastic OEM solution.

Do my S65 VANOS units need to be serviced like older M cars (i.e. will it benefit me getting these serviced and fitting your solution)?

Ooops, fundamental mistake there! although that does make me less scared of it popping off due to imbalance if i do purchase (apparently only 18g of Aluminium).

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by toolshed

15k km done without vanos caps and without any issues

Still hanging on??

Btw, FWIW, I disagree with you, the caps do appear to hold the spring in place, the force exerted by the spring going forwards isn't much (as demonstrated by your 15k km with it still on), but it will creep off eventually.

Perhaps I can find out from BMW tech info in the new year as I'm starting a new job at a BMW dealer then!