Sold Bad Tires from M3post Member

[persian54]

Originally Posted by RON1X

Fraud requires knowledge (actual knowledge or constructive knowledge, i.e. should have known), and failing to disclose such fact with the intent to deceive. It seems these defects could not have been known upon looking at them. It would only be immoral if he was actually trying to screw the buyer over... which is not the case

I don't think you got what I was suggesting...

[RON1X]

Originally Posted by persian54

I don't think you got what I was suggesting...

forgive me...i am brain dead right now

[warzilla]

Originally Posted by RON1X

- So you do know the seller. He has a track record of 79 sales with positive ratings. No negatives. (I personally don't know how many of them were tires). So you are saying based on that record, he couldn't have made a mistake in selling bad tires to me? Your 100% believe that - cause in my mind, no one bats 1000% as they say in the majors. There is always going to be 1 case or a some that happens to even the best of sellers and best of people.

No, I didn't say could not have, I just spoke to his honest character and demonstrated that it would be reasonable, based on his record, that he wouldn't have shipped had he KNOWN of any defects

So, hypothetically, based on this comment, you are saying that he could have sold me tires that he didn't know having defects on it. But then the question becomes: does that clear him for selling me defect tires? I say no, but of course that me.

[UA]

Everyone that knows the seller and has posted is being very biased. You are failing to put yourself in a standpoint that allows you to provide open-minded suggestions to help resolve the issue. It's pretty much all "I know Nivedh and he wouldn't do this". Well mistakes do happen and it is VERY possible that Nivedh himself failed to notice the tires were damaged before shipping them.

[persian54]

Originally Posted by RON1X

forgive me...i am brain dead right now

[warzilla]

Originally Posted by elm3

Hey Warzilla, just wanted to say how sorry I am for what you are going through. I am a good friend of Nivedh, he worked on my car, pretty much would not trust anybody, but him with my cars and I can vouch for him that he would not sell anybody something that was damaged as new. He has an impecable sellers reputation, that I doubt very seriously that he would mess up, by making some money from a member in this forum. I do hope that everything can be worked out in the interest to both of you. I probably was not any help to you on this matter, but wanted to really vouch for Nivedh.

Thank you for the post.

I know Nivedh got fans here and he seems like a good guy but I guess lets just get to the end point of this.

No matter what people say about his character, his personality, his track record, etc, the facts are the facts: I was sold tires for $1200.00 which has defects. No one can prove it when it was done. He says with me, I say with him. But its there. He has my money and I have those tires. We have talked it over for almost 2 months, and we trying to get a financial resolution to it - which he has agreed to in principle.

Since so many friends of Nivedh are here, anyone want to give some recommendations or solutions? I'm open to hearing something.

He's offering $100.00 and a BMW Pulley. His friend Walter offered a BMW Intercooler.

I want $300.00 in cash.

Any solutions?

[elm3]

If this gets Nivedh and you in good standings and everything worked out, I'm willing to add another $100 to his $100 and maybe I can get another friend and put the last $100 and get this taking care off.

[avex8]

Let the guy sell his pulley and try to refund you the 300 dollars in few weeks No more fighting back and forth.

[NiVeDh]

Originally Posted by elm3

If this gets Nivedh and you in good standings and everything worked out, I'm willing to add another $100 to his $100 and maybe I can get another friend and put the last $100 and get this taking care off.

I greatly appreciate the support from everyone and the unbiased commentary. Eric and Walter, thanks very much for the extremely generous offers but I can't accept anything - I insist! I think this has gotten quite complicated as is and it should stay between me and Warren.

I've given this some thought over the course of today and this is what I can offer:

Warren,

In the interest of not wasting any more of each other's time on this, please consider my proposal:

I will send you $250 if you can do the following:

1. Most importantly, please ship the tires back to me. I know that they were in excellent condition when I sent them out so I am honestly baffled regarding what happened to them. I would like to take a good look at them and whatever the outcome of my inspection may be, I won't contact you about them anymore. I also want to try to get Michelin to honor the warranty myself.

2. Secondarily, if you agree, please contact an admin on M3Post and have this thread deleted so we can put this behind us.

This is the best I can do, Warren. I can assure you I am literally pulling the $250 out of my nose because I really am a broke grad student.

As others have said, I am under no obligation to refund you based on the terms of our agreement especially since I am not at fault here. I signed your bill of sale (which I treated as a legally binding document) stating that the tires were in excellent condition - this is a fact. I would've even gotten it notarized if you so wanted. This is the best I can do, as a fellow member of this fine community, and because I honestly feel bad that this has happened.

Thanks,
Nivedh

[FotiosF90M5]

This is a shitty unfortunate situation for both people involved. All I can say with honesty from my numerous experiences from the seller he would never knowingly sell those tires with the bubbles. Ive gotten atleast 2 sets of tires and other odds and ends from the seller and everything was top notch. The entire experience was great and I dont think he would risk his reputation by doing this. He also doesnt seem the type of guy to screw someone over like this. just my .02 cents from past experience. GL to both parties that this gets resolved.

[Kenyon]

Open up a dispute for a full refund if you paid through paypal. There is no way the tire shop can do that. Actually its impossible for a tire machine to do that to a tire. I install tires almost everyday. I actually just replaced a tire with a bubble on the sidewall today. This dude is either lying to you or he just doesn't know and really believes that the tires were perfect.

[jpirelli]

Originally Posted by Kenyon

Open up a dispute for a full refund if you paid through paypal. There is no way the tire shop can do that. Actually its impossible for a tire machine to do that to a tire. I install tires almost everyday. I actually just replaced a tire with a bubble on the sidewall today. This dude is either lying to you or he just doesn't know and really believes that the tires were perfect.

The seller is reputable bro... 79 positive vs. 0. If the tires didn't have bubbles when he test fit the ZCP's like he said he did and you say tire shops can't cause bubbles then it shouldn't have happened when the seller got them dismounted. That only leaves a few places that could have caused the damage: FedEx, or warzilla drove on the tires after getting them mounted and then is backtracking and trying to make a quick buck. This seems fishy to me. In any case if it happened after the tires were shipped, it's not the seller's fault. What you think?

[C17MooseDriver]

I'm sorry, but I cannot believe that the seller would have sold you those tires with those big bubbles. They're just too noticeable.

Those bubbles are so noticeable, that you should have seen them when you first got the tires. Those bubbles are so noticeable, that a professional shop should have seen them before mounting them, or while mounting them.

[avex8]

does the bubble occur after you fill up the tire with air?

[jpirelli]

Originally Posted by jakerx8

does the bubble occur after you fill up the tire with air?

Depends. Small bubbles appear after you fill up the tire with air. Something that big as in the photographs on the first page... you would notice those with the tire dismounted.

Even a small bubble will have noticeable damage behind it. Like this photo I found... http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/5427/bulge.jpg

Weird that neither warzilla nor the tire store noticed something like that before mounting and on TWO tires. How do you overlook that? OP, was/is there any damage like that on the tires now?

[warzilla]

Update. Trying to nail a settlement with the Seller off the forum. Will give an update if successful or not.

[mkPOTO]

Originally Posted by NiVeDh

I greatly appreciate the support from everyone and the unbiased commentary. Eric and Walter, thanks very much for the extremely generous offers but I can't accept anything - I insist! I think this has gotten quite complicated as is and it should stay between me and Warren.

I've given this some thought over the course of today and this is what I can offer:

Warren,

In the interest of not wasting any more of each other's time on this, please consider my proposal:

I will send you $250 if you can do the following:

1. Most importantly, please ship the tires back to me. I know that they were in excellent condition when I sent them out so I am honestly baffled regarding what happened to them. I would like to take a good look at them and whatever the outcome of my inspection may be, I won't contact you about them anymore. I also want to try to get Michelin to honor the warranty myself.

2. Secondarily, if you agree, please contact an admin on M3Post and have this thread deleted so we can put this behind us.

This is the best I can do, Warren. I can assure you I am literally pulling the $250 out of my nose because I really am a broke grad student.

As others have said, I am under no obligation to refund you based on the terms of our agreement especially since I am not at fault here. I signed your bill of sale (which I treated as a legally binding document) stating that the tires were in excellent condition - this is a fact. I would've even gotten it notarized if you so wanted. This is the best I can do, as a fellow member of this fine community, and because I honestly feel bad that this has happened.

Thanks,
Nivedh

Never had problems with Nivedh, but this is a great thing for him to do, he isnt obligated to do anything, thumbs up for you and I am 100 positive that if there was any issues with the tires Nivedh would of mentioned it in his for sale thread and I dont see why he would lie to you knowing that his rep is on the line on a place where he sells numerous things.

[quads]

Originally Posted by NiVeDh

I hate jumping into threads like this but take a look at this first picture. Is that a slight scuff on the rim??

Study both images carefully from post #12. There some gray and brown stuff rubbed off from whatever possibly caused the damage. Looks like it's not from mounting - definitely from driving.

Another theory - the shop actually mounted the wheels and actually took the car for a spin (as they usually do to check it out), hit something big, came back with damaged tires, took them off and since they knew the tires were second hand, cooked something up so they wouldn't take the loss for it. Just a theory....

BTW I may be in Atlanta but I don't know the seller.

[warzilla]

Well it seems we were soClose but now so far away.

First off, I thank everyone here for their input. To be honest, I think this thread was good in that it brought the seller to come back to me with somewhat of an settlement that was workable between both parties. It would not have happened if it wasn't for this forum.

With everything said, all I wanted was a settlement of some money back for the damaged tires I brought from the seller. This was something the Seller himself wrote in an email way back in April, if I every other option failed and I had to buy new tires.

I think the issue came to a head when I went thru all the loops he wanted me to check off before I got to buying new tires.

1. First he said it was the tire shop's fault and they damaged the tires during the mounting. I thank the member Kenyon, who is a professional in the tire business, who said on this thread what I researched and found out myself - its almost impossible for a current mounting machine to cause those bubbles found on the tires.

2. Then the Seller told me to go ask a Michelin Dealer to get the tires covered under warranty. I went to 2 separate Michelin Dealers to do so. Both said its not going to happen. I told this repeatably to the Seller, and he still comes back to this point (as you see in his latest offer).

3. Then this week, when I finally ask in detail about getting some money-back, he came to me with an accusation that maybe I drove on those tires and caused the bubbles myself (which I tried to refute with the tire shop witness reply that came to a life of its own).

But to the Seller's credit, he did have an offer for me. $43.00 and a BMW Pulley he was selling on this forum (I asked if he could just sell the Pulley and give me the money from it, but he said no, he want me to have the pulley). He later bumped up the cash to $100.00 and the pulley.

My position was for $300.00 in cash, which in my mind seems fair, considering I paid $1200.00 for defective tires.

We were at an impasse, and that lead me to this thread.

Now, I'm assuming, the seller read the posts because he came back to me today with an offer. Its on this thread, if you want to read it.

The main points of his offer are as follows:

In the interest of not wasting any more of each other's time on this, please consider my proposal:

I will send you $250 if you can do the following:

1. Most importantly, please ship the tires back to me. I know that they were in excellent condition when I sent them out so I am honestly baffled regarding what happened to them. I would like to take a good look at them and whatever the outcome of my inspection may be, I won't contact you about them anymore. I also want to try to get Michelin to honor the warranty myself.

2. Secondarily, if you agree, please contact an admin on M3Post and have this thread deleted so we can put this behind us.

I went offline and tried to settle this once and for all via email. I told him that I would accept the $250.00 and the request to ask the admin to delete this thread (as I said, I just want it over with).

But for the tires, I told him that I want to first have the opportunity to sell the whole set and maximize my profit. Yes everyone, I do plan on telling everyone the back rears has bubbles and show pictures. I figure if someone would pay even $50.00 extra for those bad tires with the good front tires, its better then nothing. Especially since I already paid the seller $1200.00 for the tires, and will now have to sell another $900+ for a new set of tires. Every tire counts.

And I also mentioned to the Seller that I would send him the rear tires, if I just end up selling the front tires only and no buyers come up for the rears.

The Seller did not like this for some reason. He really really really really wants to see/have those rear tires. I guess as people on this forum has stated, he's very meticulous about stuff. But this is when it got weird, at least in my mind.

He told me he will tier the payment of the $250.00 offer until I give him the rear tires. Meaning he will pay me $100.00 now, and the $150.00 later ONLY if I send him the rear tires. If I sell them, he will only have sent me the original $100.00.

I found this very strange. And to be honest with everyone here, I found it kind of shady. In my mind, the seller is saying:

- I sold you tires for $1200.00, and unfortunately they are bubbles on them.
- I will give you a settlement of $250.00 ONLY if you send me back the rear tires with the bubbles. And by the way, not only am I going to look at the tires to see what happened to them BUT I'm also going to try to redeem them myself with the Michelin warranty (I don't believe he will get the warranty, but its just the principle that he wants these tires so he CAN try to redeem them for new ones instead letting me try and sell them for some additional profit).

I ended it by saying I want the $250.00 up front, and I would make a promise that if the back tires are never sold within a month, I would send it to him.

But he balked on that. So back to square one.

So what do you guys think? Should I just go with the $250.00 and ship the rear tires to him? Or is it back to the drawing table and fellow members can help us find a solution. I know some of Nivedh supporters has made offers in terms of cash to end this whole thing, is there something we can accomplish here, cause unfortunately the seller and I can't seem to see eye to eye on this compensation/settlement structure and amount.

[NiVeDh]

For the sake of not wasting too much time, I am copying some stuff from the e-mail I sent you a few minutes ago just so everyone knows what's going on:

Let's get the record straight Warren. I don't owe you anything. You are not entitled to anything based on what I signed. Legally, once the tires left my hands in the condition I stated them to be in, they are not my responsibility. Perhaps if you had pointed out any damage (if it existed) before you got them mounted, I would've refunded your money. A photo of the inside of each tire showing any damage BEFORE mounting would've sufficed. Bubbles the size of my fist on TWO tires, AFTER getting the tires mounted... that's not weird to you but me offering you compensation is weird?

Any court of law will uphold my side of the story. My offer for compensation is out of my feeling bad for you. You seem like a good guy. I am trusting you when you say you didn't cause the bubbles. Please don't take advantage of me here. I don't see what you have to lose. You are not going to use the tires anyway and no one is going to buy bubbled tires. Give me the tires back and you get the money.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, while making me pay for your negligence. All I want to do is inspect the tires, maybe try the local Michelin dealer, and then see what happens from there. If you are worried about a missed opportunity and that somehow I can get my dealer to warranty them where you couldn't, then you're free to go try 200 different dealers right now while the tires are still in your possession.

I've wasted enough time on this for today. I really do want to come to an amiable agreement with you Warren - anyone else would have left you high and dry. I do believe my offer is fair and I will not budge on it.

You can have $100 and you keep the tires and do whatever you want with them OR you can have $250 and you send me the tires - I will provide the shipping label. This is the bottom line. I think most of our fellow members will agree that I am already being more than fair by giving you any compensation at all.

I will not be OK with anyone else compensating you for this so please don't bring them into this.

[warzilla]

Originally Posted by NiVeDh

For the sake of not wasting too much time, I am copying some stuff from the e-mail I sent you a few minutes ago just so everyone knows what's going on:

Let's get the record straight Warren. I don't owe you anything. You are not entitled to anything based on what I signed. Legally, once the tires left my hands in the condition I stated them to be in, they are not my responsibility. Perhaps if you had pointed out any damage (if it existed) before you got them mounted, I would've refunded your money. A photo of the inside of each tire showing any damage BEFORE mounting would've sufficed. Bubbles the size of my fist on TWO tires, AFTER getting the tires mounted... that's not weird to you but me offering you compensation is weird?

Any court of law will uphold my side of the story. My offer for compensation is out of my feeling bad for you. You seem like a good guy. I am trusting you when you say you didn't cause the bubbles. Please don't take advantage of me here. I don't see what you have to lose. You are not going to use the tires anyway and no one is going to buy bubbled tires. Give me the tires back and you get the money.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, while making me pay for your negligence. All I want to do is inspect the tires, maybe try the local Michelin dealer, and then see what happens from there. If you are worried about a missed opportunity and that somehow I can get my dealer to warranty them where you couldn't, then you're free to go try 200 different dealers right now while the tires are still in your possession.

I've wasted enough time on this for today. I really do want to come to an amiable agreement with you Warren - anyone else would have left you high and dry. I do believe my offer is fair and I will not budge on it.

You can have $100 and you keep the tires and do whatever you want with them OR you can have $250 and you send me the tires - I will provide the shipping label. This is the bottom line. I think most of our fellow members will agree that I am already being more than fair by giving you any compensation at all.

I will not be OK with anyone else compensating you for this so please don't bring them into this.

Well folks, whats your thoughts? Is the seller being generous to me or not?

[quads]

Originally Posted by 4sevens.com

I hate jumping into threads like this but take a look at this first picture. Is that a slight scuff on the rim??

Study both images carefully from post #12. There some gray and brown stuff rubbed off from whatever possibly caused the damage. Looks like it's not from mounting - definitely from driving.

Another theory - the shop actually mounted the wheels and actually took the car for a spin (as they usually do to check it out), hit something big, came back with damaged tires, took them off and since they knew the tires were second hand, cooked something up so they wouldn't take the loss for it. Just a theory....

BTW I may be in Atlanta but I don't know the seller.

What about my theory? Can you post up original pictures in full resolution? The bubbles may have happened AFTER it was mounted....