glitter, flakes, magnetic material in oil after some high RPM driving

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by bmwm3s65

I called Euro. I got the same response from them that i got from everywhere else, if its more than just the rod bearings, i.e crank damage and beyond, i am looking at a rebuild or a replacement and no shops around me have done a rebuild on an s65 that i am aware of, just rod bearings. I even considered the dealership, but they are really expensive and they don't rebuild engines just replace and from what i've heard an engine replacement through the dealership is 20k-30k. I just got the last of the tools i needed for this job, the 6in t30 and 12point 12mm for the rod cap arp bolts, so i am back to inspecting it myself, if by some miracle its just rod bearing damage due to failure or incorrect installation and no crank damage(unlikely), I will inspect the journals, cylinder walls, mains(at least what i can see), as best i can, replace the bearings and flush the oil. If not, i'll have to source and engine and pray i chose wisely. I have one chance to fix it right. if this happens again, my wife is going to make me sell it and get a more practical family car. I absolutely do not want that. This sucks.

If you spun a rod bearing, then you will need a full rebuild. The oil debris gets everywhere and the only way to clean it out is a tear-down. Ask deansbimmer for more info regarding this.

As for the mains, there is nothing you can see without a full tear-down due to the bed plate design.

Cheers,

[bmwm3s65]

Originally Posted by Scharbag

If you spun a rod bearing, then you will need a full rebuild. The oil debris gets everywhere and the only way to clean it out is a tear-down. Ask deansbimmer for more info regarding this.

As for the mains, there is nothing you can see without a full tear-down due to the bed plate design.

Cheers,

I pm'd deansbimmer asking for his advice but i have not received a response back yet. I also contacted mporium and got a similar response to what you mentioned. If the crank is damaged a tear-down is required and it recommended at that point to jut replace the engine instead of rebuilding mainly due to cost and reliability.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by bmwm3s65

I pm'd deansbimmer asking for his advice but i have not received a response back yet. I also contacted mporium and got a similar response to what you mentioned. If the crank is damaged a tear-down is required and it recommended at that point to jut replace the engine instead of rebuilding mainly due to cost and reliability.

Yeah, deansbimmer is MPorium

It is good advice he is giving. The S65 is not an easy engine to work on and every part is pricey. Buy a used engine and then sell your damaged core to recover some money.

Good luck and sorry that your engine is not happy. It would be great to see why a BE bearing spun. I am sure Green-Eggs and AutoTalent would be interested to see the root cause of the spun bearing.

Cheers,

[bmwm3s65]

Originally Posted by Scharbag

Yeah, deansbimmer is MPorium

It is good advice he is giving. The S65 is not an easy engine to work on and every part is pricey. Buy a used engine and then sell your damaged core to recover some money.

Good luck and sorry that your engine is not happy. It would be great to see why a BE bearing spun. I am sure Green-Eggs and AutoTalent would be interested to see the root cause of the spun bearing.

Cheers,

I know, that's why I contacted mporium. I'll start working on it soon and get some good pictures. Thanks.

[deansbimmer]

I dont see any PMs. Feel free to try again but I think I remember your call at the shop.

With these engines, if you have rod knock more often than not the crank is toast which means it's tear down time. For most cars it's more economical to install a replacement engine.

[bmwm3s65]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

I dont see any PMs. Feel free to try again but I think I remember your call at the shop.

With these engines, if you have rod knock more often than not the crank is toast which means it's tear down time. For most cars it's more economical to install a replacement engine.

i'll check back in once i start taking it apart, hopefully next week, then decide on the next steps. thanks!

[bmwm3s65]

I cry a little every time I see someone else driving a bmw or any other sports car.

[acarr6]

Originally Posted by bmwm3s65

I cry a little every time I see someone else driving a bmw or any other sports car.

If you really love the M3, and want to make the commitment to own it long term, I think the best solution (not cheapest) is rebuild the engine at a quality shop. Replacement is cheaper, but it's another used engine with unknown history.

[bmwm3s65]

Originally Posted by acarr6

If you really love the M3, and want to make the commitment to own it long term, I think the best solution (not cheapest) is rebuild the engine at a quality shop. Replacement is cheaper, but it's another used engine with unknown history.

That's the goal depending on what it looks like after I open it up.

[Eja144]

Hey OP, any news yet? Interested to see whether the BE bearings failed or if it was a main.

[bmwm3s65]

Originally Posted by Eja144

Hey OP, any news yet? Interested to see whether the BE bearings failed or if it was a main.

I am very slow and meticulous when i do anything on my car to the point that i actually put all the nuts and bolts in zip lock bags and label them. Ha! I just got it on my quick jacks and started removing components in the way yesterday. I should have some updates soon at least on the rod bearings and crank.

[bmwm3s65]

Just a quick update. i should be able to drop the subframe and get the pan off today. So i should have some pictures posted by today or tomorrow.

[wootloops]

Subscribed.. very interested to see how this plays out. Thanks for keeping us posted.

[bmwm3s65]

Got the pan off finally, everything seems to be in place so far except the metal fragments in the pickup tube. the front pickup had a few copper shavings. The shop who did the install originally, appears to have stripped 2 of the screw holes in the block for the oil pan, and forgot to install 2 additional screws so i am down a total of 4 oil pan screws, 2 of which probably need a timesert now, surprised nothing leaked. Anyway here are the initial pics, I will add more in the next few days as i investigate further. first thing since i am waiting on a new torque wrench, is to rotate the crank and check the caps to see if any are loose before i remove them, then ill start pulling them one by one and check for damage.

[akkando]

fingers crossed...

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by bmwm3s65

...The shop who did the install originally, appears to have stripped 2 of the screw holes in the block for the oil pan, and forgot to install 2 additional screws so i am down a total of 4 oil pan screws, 2 of which probably need a timesert now, surprised nothing leaked...

Oh snap - I would be having some fairly strong words for that shop. If they cannot even put a pan on properly, then they have no business touching rod bearings.

Good luck!!

[NeverL8]

Originally Posted by Scharbag

Oh snap - I would be having some fairly strong words for that shop. If they cannot even put a pan on properly, then they have no business touching rod bearings.

Good luck!!

Wondering if they measured each shell and properly torqued the rod bolts

[bmwm3s65]

I am dropping the subframe completely by the strut towers before i can get to start pulling and inspecting the bearings. when i pull the bearing do i need to put installation lubricant back on them and the rod bolts upon reinstall? If so i was going to use redline assembly lubricant for the existing rod bearings, but what about the bolts? the rod bearing diy appears to show some kind of silver/grey lubricant almost like anti-seize on the bolts upon re-install.

[djsilverjohnson]

Originally Posted by bmwm3s65

I am dropping the subframe completely by the strut towers before i can get to start pulling and inspecting the bearings. when i pull the bearing do i need to put installation lubricant back on them and the rod bolts upon reinstall? If so i was going to use redline assembly lubricant for the existing rod bearings, but what about the bolts? the rod bearing diy appears to show some kind of silver/grey lubricant almost like anti-seize on the bolts upon re-install.

There are others with more BMW specific knowledge, but I would put assembly lubricant on the bearings when you put them in. The bolts should get "thread lubricant". It looks like, and is similar to, anti-seize, but it's made to give consistent torque results. ARP sells it and it's what I use.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by bmwm3s65

I am dropping the subframe completely by the strut towers before i can get to start pulling and inspecting the bearings. when i pull the bearing do i need to put installation lubricant back on them and the rod bolts upon reinstall? If so i was going to use redline assembly lubricant for the existing rod bearings, but what about the bolts? the rod bearing diy appears to show some kind of silver/grey lubricant almost like anti-seize on the bolts upon re-install.

You need oil or assembly lube on the bearings if they are dry.

The bolts need to have ARP lube on them. If they are BMW OE bolts they cannot be re-used. If they are ARP bolts they can be re-used.

Make sure everything is clean and the tangs are lined up. If you did spin a bearing, you need a full tear down to get rid of all the swarf.

Cheers,

[bmwm3s65]

Quick update; i finally had time to remove the oil pipes and sub-frame completely. I now have full access to rod bearings now. so far no rod bolts appear to be backed out ,which dispels my first theory.
Here is my game plan; When i get the assembly and arp lube this week, i was going to remove, inspect, lube bolts and bearings and reinstall on at a time. If i find damage only to the rod bearings and journal is clean, i was going to order a replacement set of RB's and only replace the damaged RB's. If i find no damage, i have to assume the debris came from the mains and total failure is imminent and i need to replace or rebuild. i rather replace since i intend on keeping and i can replace it myself.

Here are some closeups of the shells, everything looks in order, nothing loose. in the pickup tube pic you can clearly see the copper around the edges of the mesh.

[TX]

Man you have some serious patience. You're all the way to that point and haven't pulled the shells yet. I'd be chewing my fingers off waiting to back those bolts out....wish you the best outcome. and FYI if that shop messed up installing the pan, you should have a little chat with them. They have no business working on your car.