glitter, flakes, magnetic material in oil after some high RPM driving

[bmwm3s65]

So I took a trip this weekend to the tail of the dragon and back roughly about 1200 miles total. Car appeared to run fine the whole time. I got home and decided to check my oil since i burned 3/4 of a quart on the trip which i figured was due to higher than normal sustained rpms. i pulled the filter out and examined it and found the following. I confirmed some of the material is magnetic. it is not peelings from the valve cover. Most of the driving was high rpm on the dragon and some on the highway. The only time the car ever, ever, sees 5-7k rpms continuously in 2nd and 3rd gear is through the whole dragon run, however, never redlining. currently @ 78k miles, never tracked, nor supercharged, never red lined, properly warmed up every single time to a fault. rod bearing replaced with BE bearings and be arp bolts about 25k ago. spark plugs changed every 10k, castrol 10w60 oil every 3-5k. I just changed the oil before i left on my trip so it has at most 1,300 miles on it. At this point the engine still appears to run fine. I wonder if this could have been caused by oil starvation from all the hairpin turns. At minimum, i am going to change the oil again. At the moment, I don't have the money to pay a shop to tear it apart and inspect the bearings so i can either tear it apart myself and inspect it or just change the oil and monitor it. Logically i think the only way to gauge how bad it is, is to open it back up and inspect it myself and i think the pictures support this, but i wanted to get some opinions first.

[Throatpunch]

Wow thats not good at all

[Richneerd]

Time to open her back up!

[nick3753]

Sorry for your issue. Out of curiosity, why do you change your spark plugs so frequently?

[SAMM3Y]

I doubt there was any oil starvation.. I'd change the oil and keep driving it..

[bmwm3s65]

Originally Posted by nick3753

Sorry for your issue. Out of curiosity, why do you change your spark plugs so frequently?

I found this recommendation in a couple of threads. The one that comes to mind is here(https://www.m3post.com/forums//////s...1517625&page=2). I attempted to everything i could to ensure this motor stays stout. I figured short spark plug service intervals would help. Apparently that did not work. Maybe this happened because i babied it too much. I never red lined since i've owned it, i shift normally 98% of the time at 3k, never track, i never, ever, ever go over 3k before warming up, not even by accident. i usually change the oil every 2500-3k with castrol 10w60 except for once i went to 5k before changing.

[bmwm3s65]

Another thing i thought of that may have caused this was aluminium debris from the oil dipstick installation into the oil pan. all the larger pieces of metal in the photos im pretty sure is from that 6 oil changes and 25k later i am still seeing pieces of what i believe are from the pan from that job, apparently the shop did a poor job when cleaning the pan out. I am wondering if while pushing the car harder than normal, i triggered the oil bypass which caused what ever aluminium material to bypass the filter and make its way through to the bearings. I guess there could be a number of what if scenarios here.

[Helmsman]

Sorry to read about your engine OP. Even more worrying it seems to be metal shaving on both side of the filter?

[bmwm3s65]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Sorry to read about your engine OP. Even more worrying it seems to be metal shaving on both side of the filter?

Thanks. I believe the metal material is only on the outside. I cut the filter open and laid it flat to make it easier to see. the pictures are of the outside of the filter.

[6ixSpd]

All that precaution and babying it, and preventative maintenance... I feel for you OP.

At least drive the car as it's meant to be - never redlining/exceeding 7K pretty much defeats 80% of the point of owning it.

[bmwm3s65]

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

All that precaution and babying it, and preventative maintenance... I feel for you OP.

At least drive the car as it's meant to be - never redlining/exceeding 7K pretty much defeats 80% of the point of owning it.

Yea, i regret not redlining, i have my paranoia of rod bearing failure to thank for that. I guess at this point its not so much paranoia.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by bmwm3s65

Another thing i thought of that may have caused this was aluminium debris from the oil dipstick installation into the oil pan. all the larger pieces of metal in the photos im pretty sure is from that 6 oil changes and 25k later i am still seeing pieces of what i believe are from the pan from that job, apparently the shop did a poor job when cleaning the pan out. I am wondering if while pushing the car harder than normal, i triggered the oil bypass which caused what ever aluminium material to bypass the filter and make its way through to the bearings. I guess there could be a number of what if scenarios here.

Hmm shavings from dipstick install, that's a good theory. Question is now what to do? I wish I had the knowledge to advise but I don't.

[bmwm3s65]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

I doubt there was any oil starvation.. I'd change the oil and keep driving it..

Hey Samm3y, just curious what are you basing your recommendation on? The fact that from the pictures, the amount of debris does not warrant the time and risk to open it up to investigate? Thanks.

[Johal E32]

Perform an oil change, drive the car for a thousand miles or so and send a sample out to Blackstone. Let's see what they have to say.

Alternatively try this.
Try one of those engine oil flush products, I think this product is more for cleaning up sludge deposits. But basically you use cheap Walmart conventional motor oil, OEM filter and this product. Run the motor until its warm, drain it, change the filter and fill it back up with 10w-60 oil. Hopefully it can remove all of the remaining metal debris inside your engine.
https://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-20.../dp/B00CR3RXTO

Disclaimer: I am not responsible to any damage that may occur to your engine.

[SAMM3Y]

Originally Posted by bmwm3s65

Hey Samm3y, just curious what are you basing your recommendation on? The fact that from the pictures, the amount of debris does not warrant the time and risk to open it up to investigate? Thanks.

The two main things you're really worried about are the mains and the Rb's... you've changed the rbs already, the mains you're not going to get to...if it's running well, id change the oil and monitor it, if it starts knocking throw the clutch or put it in neutral and kill the motor as fast as you can.. don't know what your old bearings looked like but if they were bad the shavings could be residual and a long boot around was enough to unsettle them wherever they settled before.

I have an oil pressure gauge in mine and have never seen a dip in pressure on a spirited drive.

[NeverL8]

Who did your RB install?

Is it possible for a shop to over tighten the arp bolts or some other other install error...even tho it’s been 25k miles?

I know it’s a long shot but I’m just throwing out any ideas

[bmwm3s65]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

The two main things you're really worried about are the mains and the Rb's... you've changed the rbs already, the mains you're not going to get to...if it's running well, id change the oil and monitor it, if it starts knocking throw the clutch or put it in neutral and kill the motor as fast as you can.. don't know what your old bearings looked like but if they were bad the shavings could be residual and a long boot around was enough to unsettle them wherever they settled before.

I have an oil pressure gauge in mine and have never seen a dip in pressure on a spirited drive.

Thanks Samm3y, i am going to at least drain the oil and see how bad it is first. If it is glitter fest, I am seriously thinking about taking it apart my self to investigate the extent of the damage. My concern is the risk involved in taking it apart and putting it back together incorrectly, or finding that the journals are scored and that it needs a new crank, which a shop would have to do.

[bmwm3s65]

Originally Posted by TheRussski

Who did your RB install?

Is it possible for a shop to over tighten the arp bolts or some other other install error...even tho it’s been 25k miles?

I know it’s a long shot but I’m just throwing out any ideas

yea i thought about that too. From the research I've done, it seems like an incorrect RB installation would have yielded a failure much sooner than 25k miles later, however, anything is possible.

[bmwm3s65]

I drained the oil and did not find any pieces of metal like i found in the filter but it appears a gold color when i stir it up and shine a light on it. I was going to refill with fresh oil and try starting the car but i too afraid to. I think i am going to pull it apart to inspect the rod bearings. Here is my logic. I have all of the tools and hardware already to do this, plus time and another vehicle i can use. My dad is a mechanic and happens to be visiting in a couple days so he will be available to help. if i open it up, i should be able to determine if the material in the filter and oil came from my rod bearings or main bearings. If rod bearings, I can try and determine how they got damaged, incorrect installation, debris from previous installation, correct the problem and replace again. if rod bearings are clean, then most likely its the main bearings, then i need to determine if its worth trying to get it to a shop, or replace the engine. I think the amount of metal i found in the filter warrants this approach.

[nrubenstein]

Did you save an oil sample for testing?

100% agree with pulling the pan to check the state of the bearings. You need to know.

Also, you should see if you can pull the cap on the #1 main and see what the lower shell and the journal look like. (Note that you won't be able to get the upper shell out, but you should still see if there is a problem.)

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by nrubenstein

Did you save an oil sample for testing?

100% agree with pulling the pan to check the state of the bearings. You need to know.

Also, you should see if you can pull the cap on the #1 main and see what the lower shell and the journal look like. (Note that you won't be able to get the upper shell out, but you should still see if there is a problem.)

The S65 has a bed plate so there is no way to inspect the mains without a total tear-down of the engine. This can be done engine in... This should be done engine out. Either way, it is a major effort and at that point, you might as well just rebuild the pig properly.

Cheers,

[bmwm3s65]

Originally Posted by Scharbag

The S65 has a bed plate so there is no way to inspect the mains without a total tear-down of the engine. This can be done engine in... This should be done engine out. Either way, it is a major effort and at that point, you might as well just rebuild the pig properly.

Cheers,

I wasn't expecting to be able to see if the mains were damaged. I understand that it has to be torn down to expose the mains. I do not feel comfortable doing that. I am still on the fence about taking it apart to inspect the rod bearings, since i believe the process adds risk that i may damage something while i am in there. I am trying to ascertain whether the extent of the material i found in the filter warrants the risk of opening it up. And if i open it up and find the rod bearings are damaged, there is a possibility the journals may be scored and/or the mains might be damaged, so replacing the rod bearings again may be futile