Low Level Rca inputs

[Gemcoska]

Hey guys,

I'm adding a sub and need a low level line input to use those JL line connectors for the Class D mono amp I'll be using.

From what I've gathered, the head unit already sends out low level line signals. I couldn't figure out the pin assignments from http://www.fdebrus.be/car/hifi.jpg although this link is from a thread with base audio and I have premium. Is there a low level line signal for just the subs?

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Gemcoska

Hey guys,

I'm adding a sub and need a low level line input to use those JL line connectors for the Class D mono amp I'll be using.

From what I've gathered, the head unit already sends out low level line signals. I couldn't figure out the pin assignments from http://www.fdebrus.be/car/hifi.jpg although this link is from a thread with base audio and I have premium. Is there a low level line signal for just the subs?

There is no line level signal at all in your Premium Sound system, as it is a digital signal output from the iDrive and high level outputs from the OEM amp.

What you can do is tap the OEM amp connector underseat subs outputs pins...

- 6(+) and 16(-) for the right
- 8(+) and 18(-) for the left

... and depending of the sub amp to use, determine if you will need a passive line output converter (LOC) or not.

For example, most JL Audio sub amps accept high level speaker inputs, so you will need to buy only a set of their speaker wire to RCA cables for connection: http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_c...l.php?cat_id=5

If the amp accept high level inputs with just wires then you do not need any wire to RCA cables, just 16-12 gauge straight wires will do.

For remote wire you could use pin 13 in the back of the iDrive computer if the amp does not support signal sensing.

If the sub amp does not accept any high level inputs then you will need a line output converter, something like this: http://www.myradiostore.com/noise-fi...eis-loc-t.html

[Gemcoska]

Lots of good info as usual Technic.

Is the wiring diagram I found the right one for Premium? Also, I see the numbers on the diagram but how do i match them up to the actual harness.

The US amp MD-1D I'm using only takes low level rca inputs so i guess its the LOC route for me. I've used them once before and wasn't that happy with the quality. What is your take on signal degradation or noise from LOCs?

It seems like the stinger LOC is very popular. Are you recommending the LOC you linked?

Also, that LOC has a 12v remote line. Do you think it would still be better to use the remote from the Idrive computer?

Thanks

[Gemcoska]

Was doing some research on LOCs, looks like they have a maximum input power of anywhere between 12 and 50 watts per channel. Anyone know what the premium audio amp puts out for the subs? All i found was the total power of 825w.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Gemcoska

Lots of good info as usual Technic.

1) Is the wiring diagram I found the right one for Premium? Also, I see the numbers on the diagram but how do i match them up to the actual harness.

The US amp MD-1D I'm using only takes low level rca inputs so i guess its the LOC route for me. I've used them once before and wasn't that happy with the quality. 2) What is your take on signal degradation or noise from LOCs?

It seems like the stinger LOC is very popular. 3) Are you recommending the LOC you linked?

Also, that LOC has a 12v remote line. 4) Do you think it would still be better to use the remote from the Idrive computer?

Thanks

1) The link that you provided is from the HiFi system (standard), not the Top HiFi with DSP (Premium). I have not found the Premium diagram online, however its pin assignments are exactly the same as the Logic7 diagram.

2) Personally I don't like passive LOCs, however because this is for just adding a sub it is not that critical for sound quality, IMO. But now that you mentioned it, the power handling of the LOC in your application is critical, as I estimate that the OEM subs are powered by at least 150W max at 7 ohms. So in your case you will need something like the AudioControl LC6i active LOC to convert those high powered high level signals into low level for your sub amp: http://www.audiocontrol.com/t34/1761...r----LC6i.html

3) Disregard that passive LOC. Its max power handling is 85W.

4) If you use the LC6i then it will have signal sensing, so there will be no need for a separate remote signal. If you use a high powered passive LOC I would recommend using the OEM remote line for OEM functionality.

[Gemcoska]

Wow, a $140 6 channel input active LOC for just a sub? Seems a bit overkill.

What about the route that you took. Can I just get the CL441 or do I still need to sum the signals with the CL-SSI. Seems like a smarter idea to spend the money on something that I can use when I eventually upgrade to your route rather than something that's gonna become trash eventually.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Gemcoska

Wow, a $140 6 channel input active LOC for just a sub? Seems a bit overkill.

What about the route that you took. Can I just get the CL441 or do I still need to sum the signals with the CL-SSI. Seems like a smarter idea to spend the money on something that I can use when I eventually upgrade to your route rather than something that's gonna become trash eventually.

That's the issue here if you want to add a sub to the Premium system; if your sub amp can accept high level inputs then there's no need for any LOC. If not then you will need a high powered passive LOC or that active LOC.

My setup primary purpose was to remove the OEM DSP EQ from the system, not to just add a sub. It will work as your active LOC as well, but it will be also an overkill (at least $200 just for the CL441) unless you are planning for an eventual complete upgrade of the whole OEM system.

[Gemcoska]

I think eventually I will follow your setup, but for now, I just want to add the sub amp. So will I need both the CL441 and the CL-SSI?

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Gemcoska

I think eventually I will follow your setup, but for now, I just want to add the sub amp. So will I need both the CL441 and the CL-SSI?

Wrong information posted before: both the CL441 and the CL-SSI will be required to add a sub to your Premium system.

[Gemcoska]

Alright.. sounds good.

[Gemcoska]

I was looking through the CL441 tech sheets and found a couple interesting statements:

1) The OEM audio signals used as the inputs must be full range and crossed over signals must be summed first.

2) Input Range is 100mV to 30V RMS. I don't know how this translates to wattage besides Volts*Amps=Watts.

Well we obviously know that the CL441 will work with the full range signals since you used those inputs, but the subwoofer outputs are different. I guess my option is to feed the mono block d sub amp a full signal and use its lowpass filter.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Gemcoska

I was looking through the CL441 tech sheets and found a couple interesting statements:

1) The OEM audio signals used as the inputs must be full range and crossed over signals must be summed first.

2) Input Range is 100mV to 30V RMS. I don't know how this translates to wattage besides Volts*Amps=Watts.

Well we obviously know that the CL441 will work with the full range signals since you used those inputs, but the subwoofer outputs are different. I guess my option is to feed the mono block d sub amp a full signal and use its lowpass filter.

You are correct, the CL441 requires a full range signal; my mistake. Therefore you will indeed need the summing device as well, to sum the OEM amp front with the subs outputs for the full range signal.

That input range is more than enough, as I'm using the 2 OEM sub channels plus front and rear OEM channels as inputs of the summing device without any issues.

Have you checked these high power passive LOCs as well? http://www.davidnavone.com/cart.asp?24&cat=7

[Gemcoska]

Not sure if that link points to what you meant it to but I'm assuming that you are reffering to the NE-774V adapter. The site does not specify the input wattage; I emailed dnavone@davidnavone.com to see if he could help with my issue.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Gemcoska

Not sure if that link points to what you meant it to but I'm assuming that you are reffering to the NE-774V adapter. The site does not specify the input wattage; I emailed dnavone@davidnavone.com to see if he could help with my issue.

If I remember correctly, the input power of the NE-774V should be in the 100W+ range because the trick about this LOC is that its output level can go as high as 9.5V depending of the input level/power. That's a lot coming from a passive LOC.

The NE-7V is the 2-channel version.

[Gemcoska]

From Dave Navone:
Hello Rob,
I'm sorry,.. we don't have an LOC that can handle over 50 Watts per channel... I can make you one... but it will cost around $40.00 + $3.00 S/H = $43.00 total... Let me know....
Thanks...
Dave

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Gemcoska

From Dave Navone:
Hello Rob,
I'm sorry,.. we don't have an LOC that can handle over 50 Watts per channel... I can make you one... but it will cost around $40.00 + $3.00 S/H = $43.00 total... Let me know....
Thanks...
Dave

I would ask him before any decision from your part about this test: http://tom-morrow-land.com/tests/navoneloc/ and what would mean to what you want to do.

That's where I read about this LOC before -notice that it also references the LC6i.

[dvpouldar26]

For low level inputs, you need to tap into speaker wires and use a high to low level converter to convert the signal into RCA's. This has to be done for most BMW installs. Tap into the subwoofer speaker wires, and use a converter such as the PAC SNI-35 to turn those aplified signals into your inputs for the RCA's. Thsi si what i have done on all of my installs and i highly recommend the PAC SNI-35 to everyone using low-level inputs. The PAC SNI-35 can be purvhased from amazong for less than $30.
For a subwoofer tap into the stock subwoofer outputs in the amplifier, not the other speaker wires.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by dvpouldar26

For low level inputs, you need to tap into speaker wires and use a high to low level converter to convert the signal into RCA's. This has to be done for most BMW installs. Tap into the subwoofer speaker wires, and use a converter such as the PAC SNI-35 to turn those aplified signals into your inputs for the RCA's. Thsi si what i have done on all of my installs and i highly recommend the PAC SNI-35 to everyone using low-level inputs. The PAC SNI-35 can be purvhased from amazong for less than $30.
For a subwoofer tap into the stock subwoofer outputs in the amplifier, not the other speaker wires.

The issue here is way past -and slightly more involved than- that at this point in the thread for this particular application.

[kmarei]

are there low level outputs for the base sound system?
or are they all optical?
just curious of the head unit is the same or if its different between base and premium

[Technic]

Originally Posted by kmarei

are there low level outputs for the base sound system?
or are they all optical?
just curious of the head unit is the same or if its different between base and premium

There are differential low level outputs in the base system.

[Gemcoska]

I can't believe that not only did I not get what I wanted from premium audio, I also have to go through more trouble to improve it.

Technic, please tell me there was some reason I spent $1900 on premium audio, pretty front grills, better speakers... woe is me.

On the brighter side, Mr Dave Navone is solving my troubles with a $43 magic box.

[Gemcoska]

I looked at the PAC SNI-35 and it accepts input signals up to 40W, not enough for this application.