Benefits of solid subframe bushings on a stock car

[Rassilon]

I am curious if there's any perceivable benefits of solid subframe bushings on a car with stock suspension and engine.

[Redd]

I'm keen to know too. Mostly daily driver and canyon carver. Trackdays 2x a year.

[JustAnothaM4]

None...don't do it! If you car is a daily driver stay away from solid bushings as they are made for "race" cars.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by edwardgtxy

I am curious if there's any perceivable benefits of solid subframe bushings on a car with stock suspension and engine.

You will have a rear axle that is very solid(responsive) and experience less on and off throttle rear torque steer. However, you will get more NVH into the cabin. On a completely stock suspension, don't even bother with the solid bushings. It's 6-7 hours of labor to get them done. You can invest that into some sport springs and upgraded struts and shocks and get more performance return on your money.

[Rassilon]

I like stock edc so am currently not interested in aftermarket suspension bits. I read a few mrf solid subframe bushing review and it seems there's 0 increase in nvh. I am surprised to hear opposite views on the nvh side.

[okusa]

Originally Posted by edwardgtxy

I like stock edc so am currently not interested in aftermarket suspension bits. I read a few mrf solid subframe bushing review and it seems there's 0 increase in nvh. I am surprised to hear opposite views on the nvh side.

Huh? If that were the case then why would the stock bushings not be solid? Sorry but just not possible.

[Bx Tpr]

Absolutely ZERO nvh from subframe bushings. Most of the noise people are experiencing come from drivetrain (engine, tranny, differential) bushing mods. If these subframe bushings caused that much noise believe me they wouldn't be such a popular mod.

[bigjae1976]

I put solid subframe bushings into my e46 and you really don't get any NVH. I haven't ever experienced a significant increase in NVH with suspension busings (subframe, FCABs, RTABs).

When you go with poly or solid drivetrain bushings...you will get a lot more NVH.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by okusa

Huh? If that were the case then why would the stock bushings not be solid? Sorry but just not possible.

When I talked to Malek, I found out he does something slightly different to minimize noise. I haven't done it yet, but people that go with him seem to have little downsides.

[Rassilon]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I put solid subframe bushings into my e46 and you really don't get any NVH. I haven't ever experienced a significant increase in NVH with suspension busings (subframe, FCABs, RTABs).

When you go with poly or solid drivetrain bushings...you will get a lot more NVH.

did you feel any significant difference compared to stock rubber?

[ashtaron14]

Solid Subframe Bushings WILL NOT add NVH
Solid Differential Bushings WILL add NVH

Benefits
- You will get less wheelspin from the get go
- You can feel what the rear is doing
- You get a better feel of the mechanical grip versus tire grip, increases confidence in car

After all the upgrades I've done to my car, Solid Subframe Bushings is the best thing you can do to an E9x M3 to make it feel more alive.

[Rassilon]

Originally Posted by ashtaron14

Solid Subframe Bushings WILL NOT add NVH
Solid Differential Bushings WILL add NVH

Benefits
- You will get less wheelspin from the get go
- You can feel what the rear is doing
- You get a better feel of the mechanical grip versus tire grip, increases confidence in car

After all the upgrades I've done to my car, Solid Subframe Bushings is the best thing you can do to an E9x M3 to make it feel more alive.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Do you think the changes will be noticeable with stock edc suspension and engine?

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by edwardgtxy

did you feel any significant difference compared to stock rubber?

Nope. Did poly subframe bushings in my 330ci too...no difference.

The improvement will be subtle and likely undetectable.

The reason why you do the subframe bushings preventively is to check them you have to pull off the entire rear end. At point...might as well change them. Also, why not install a longer lasting part which costs a lot of money/time to replace?

[ashtaron14]

Originally Posted by edwardgtxy

Thanks for sharing your experience. Do you think the changes will be noticeable with stock edc suspension and engine?

If you drive like a grandma, nope.
If you drive like most of the M3 drivers I've met (shift at least 6000rpm), then yep.

[Malek@MRF]

Unfortunately lots of misinformation in here. There is NO NVH increase from changing the stock rubber sub-frame bushings to solid Sub-frame bushings. There is a great benefit on stock cars as well, you do not need to have a track prepped or race car M3 to take advantage of these. They will virtually eliminate wheel hop, they stabilize the rear end under cornering and acceleration and stiffen chassis rigidity which always is a good thing, even on a street car, as it will be less prone to being upset driving around.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by Malek@MRF

Unfortunately lots of misinformation in here. There is NO NVH increase from changing the stock rubber sub-frame bushings to solid Sub-frame bushings. There is a great benefit on stock cars as well, you do not need to have a track prepped or race car M3 to take advantage of these. They will virtually eliminate wheel hop, they stabilize the rear end under cornering and acceleration and stiffen chassis rigidity which always is a good thing, even on a street car, as it will be less prone to being upset driving around.

when we talked, you mentioned that you did something with the differential bushings that minimized the noise, or made it hardly noticeable... what do you do exactly?

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by edwardgtxy

I like stock edc so am currently not interested in aftermarket suspension bits. I read a few mrf solid subframe bushing review and it seems there's 0 increase in nvh. I am surprised to hear opposite views on the nvh side.

Perhaps their tolerance for NVH is much higher, there is definitely more NVH with solid subframe bushings.

[C|3R1C]

Originally Posted by ashtaron14

Solid Subframe Bushings WILL NOT add NVH
Solid Differential Bushings WILL add NVH

Benefits
- You will get less wheelspin from the get go
- You can feel what the rear is doing
- You get a better feel of the mechanical grip versus tire grip, increases confidence in car

After all the upgrades I've done to my car, Solid Subframe Bushings is the best thing you can do to an E9x M3 to make it feel more alive.

+1 to this

Very accurate. I had solid subframe and turner delrin diff mounts and the only change was I could hear the diff whine at highway speeds (not that loud but definitely there). There was no increase in NVH (except diff whine) and I am EXTREMELY sensitive to NVH. I took apart my center console to pad the inside from NVH and that was stock bushings with catless pipes.

Benefits listed above are spot on.

[Malek@MRF]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

Perhaps their tolerance for NVH is much higher, there is definitely more NVH with solid subframe bushings.

No, there just simply isn't a detectable increase in NVH with solid subframe bushings. Having done nearly 100 of them in house now, none have ever said there is an increase in noise from the sub-frame bushings. The differential bushings, depending on type of material, will increase noise. There is no vibration or harshness increase from differential mounts, just gear whine.

[Malek@MRF]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

when we talked, you mentioned that you did something with the differential bushings that minimized the noise, or made it hardly noticeable... what do you do exactly?

It's a differential damper essentially. It will reduce the noise of the stiffer differential mounts by absorbing the noise.

[Cidle]

Originally Posted by Malek@MRF

It's a differential damper essentially. It will reduce the noise of the stiffer differential mounts by absorbing the noise.

Is your damper available for purchase now?
They weren't when I purchased the subframe bushings and diff mounts from you..
Feel free to PM me any information

[Ant Man]

Malek - I'm thinking of pairing solid aluminium subframe bushes with Black series diff bushes.

In your opinion, would 95 shore A material as used in Powerflex Black series diff kit allow move NVH than the stock bushes?
Cheers.