Do not drive a GT3!!

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29

GSR Autosport in Lake Forest. They work on BMWs too but they do a lot of work on Porsches, including full race ones.

Mike Essa drifted the sh*t out of my M3 on the Willow drift balcony and then tried to teach my sorry ass how to drift

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by Soorena

Exactly. The modification you planned will get of rid this annoying feeling.

Can't wait for the install to be completed. Not going crazy...just covering the basics so hopefully this combo below will do the trick. Tanner Foust's personal 996 Turbo is also there having his daily driver suspension dialed in

Set up:

Ohlins single adjustable coils
Dogbones rear upper control arm links/toe links
Corner balance and alignment

[krnnerdboy]

Sweet, I'll be hitting him up. I'm only 45 min away from him. Good enough for foust is good enough for me!

I'm gonna need a gt2 rear sway and a corner balance/alignment

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by krnnerdboy

Sweet, I'll be hitting him up. I'm only 45 min away from him. Good enough for foust is good enough for me!

I'm gonna need a gt2 rear sway and a corner balance/alignment

Sorry I should have clarified that my Turbo S is at BBI Autosport in Huntington Beach, not at GSR.

[ki__]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Sorry I should have clarified that my Turbo S is at BBI Autosport in Huntington Beach, not at GSR.

I can't wait to see your car.. Possibly at the track too?

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by KEYON

I can't wait to see your car.. Possibly at the track too?

Thanks! For sure at the Airstrip Events. I'm even taking it to the drag strip again Feb 1 at Famoso (private track rental). Bring your M3! DJSJ5 will be there will his ESS 750 e92. Just go to Facebook/Team Spanking Time to sign up.

With how much I'm spending on suspension, you'd think I'd be eager to see what it can do at the track but in reality I'm kinda paranonid. I don't trust myself as this things can get out of hand really quickly with this car. I almost need to re-learn how to drive fast. Hopefully it's much more manageable after the suspension change

[ki__]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Thanks! For sure at the Airstrip Events. I'm even taking it to the drag strip again Feb 1 at Famoso (private track rental). Bring your M3! DJSJ5 will be there will his ESS 750 e92. Just go to Facebook/Team Spanking Time to sign up.

With how much I'm spending on suspension, you'd think I'd be eager to see what it can do at the track but in reality I'm kinda paranonid. I don't trust myself as this things can get out of hand really quickly with this car. I almost need to re-learn how to drive fast. Hopefully it's much more manageable after the suspension change

I'll look into it!

You should! Just leave all the electronic nannies on for the beginning until you get the hang out of it. It was created to be abused

[TrevorM3]

how does the turbo compare to the gt3, if at all on the track?

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by TrevorM3

how does the turbo compare to the gt3, if at all on the track?

Stock versus stock? I've never had a 997 Turbo but I did track a 996 Turbo back in 2005-2007. The Turbo is heavier, understeers more, lot more body roll, softer suspension, less downforce, etc. I had to mod the Turbo to get it track worthy where the GT3 was ready to hit the track out of the showroom floor. The GT3 also sounds better than the Turbo.

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by krnnerdboy

Sweet, I'll be hitting him up. I'm only 45 min away from him. Good enough for foust is good enough for me!

I'm gonna need a gt2 rear sway and a corner balance/alignment

Talk to Justin or Jonathan, they'll take good care of you and your car. Their labor rate is also very competitive. Tell them Martin recommended GSR.

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

Mike Essa drifted the sh*t out of my M3 on the Willow drift balcony and then tried to teach my sorry ass how to drift

He did a few hot laps in my GT3 at Buttonwillow with me in the car...wow, is all I had to say. Made my hot laps seem like parade laps.

[klammer]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Something's up with your math.

I'm no 'ring expert, so can't make direct comparisons between B to G times, full lap times, Sport Auto times, etc. but I am a winter time admirer of 'ring vids...

Have a look at the Yokohama bridge to gantry times in the three vids below. Why the Yokohama bridge? Because it's a readily identifiable landmark common to all laps with different start points, and in all three laps they're on it pretty much from that bridge to gantry. Kluck is going for it in both vids.

Lukester M3 2:14 - 7:46 (5:32)*
991 C2S 2:21 - 7:52 (5:31) Timo Kluck
997 GT3RS 4.0 () 2:18 - 7:46 (5:28)** Timo Kluck

*He hit traffic in a couple of spots. He's an incredible driver, but not Timo Kluck. PDK in the C2S, 6MT in the E92.
**Got off of it prior to gantry. Cut a few seconds off that time realistically.

So over a substantial portion of the lap, the modded M3 really is neck and neck with the 991 C2S, and therefore 997 GT3s.

I'm GT3 obsessed, by the way. I just thought you must be selling that absurdly quick lap by the M3 way short. Cannot be mid-8's and slower than the recorded stock E92 time.

Checked the 918 spyder time over that same distance for shits and giggles -- 4:57 . Demonstrates that if there is a massive performance difference between the cars being compared, it would certainly show over the "Yoko to gantry" lap.

Well played sir

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Something's up with your math.

I'm no 'ring expert, so can't make direct comparisons between B to G times, full lap times, Sport Auto times, etc. but I am a winter time admirer of 'ring vids...

Have a look at the Yokohama bridge to gantry times in the three vids below. Why the Yokohama bridge? Because it's a readily identifiable landmark common to all laps with different start points, and in all three laps they're on it pretty much from that bridge to gantry. Kluck is going for it in both vids.

Lukester M3 2:14 - 7:46 (5:32)*
991 C2S 2:21 - 7:52 (5:31) Timo Kluck
997 GT3RS 4.0 () 2:18 - 7:46 (5:28)** Timo Kluck

*He hit traffic in a couple of spots. He's an incredible driver, but not Timo Kluck. PDK in the C2S, 6MT in the E92.
**Got off of it prior to gantry. Cut a few seconds off that time realistically.

So over a substantial portion of the lap, the modded M3 really is neck and neck with the 991 C2S, and therefore 997 GT3s.

I'm GT3 obsessed, by the way. I just thought you must be selling that absurdly quick lap by the M3 way short. Cannot be mid-8's and slower than the recorded stock E92 time.

Checked the 918 spyder time over that same distance for shits and giggles -- 4:57 . Demonstrates that if there is a massive performance difference between the cars being compared, it would certainly show over the "Yoko to gantry" lap.

Originally Posted by klammer

Well played sir

Except we are talking about an M3 that has been fully gutted with a full roll cage among a pretty substantial list of mods and in total likely 75K in mods IF "upgraded engine" means a built engine. Plus lets not forget this car is running on cup tires to which are a big advantage…
On the other hand, a stock 991S with only 400 hp and a 32xx-33xx curb weight is still faster and has not compromised street drivability in doing so. The 991 chassis is just too damn good.

[ChrisF]

Anyone who thinks the center locks aren't a big deal hasn't had to change them repeatedly at the track. Let me walk you through the joy us owners get with them:

1. Can't break or torque the wheels on the ground. Car must be in the air. Requires a torque wrench capable of 444ft/lbs. Also requires a huge breaker bar.
2. Once in the air, break the wheels and remove.
3. Wheel off, inspect the center lock nut, hub, wheel surfaces for any sign of slippage.
4. Disassemble center lock nut, clean, regrease with Optimolly grease (the nastiest substance on earth next to plutonium)
5. Reinstall wheel, hand tighten nut.
6. Tighten nut to spec, back it off 45 degrees, re-torque (all while in the air)
7. inspect each wheel to ensure the center spline is engaged (popped and flush)
8. Wheel hubs time out as follows: front - 8000 track miles; rear - 4000 track miles. Cost...a used Golf.

Miss any steps and risk single point catastrophic failure. Most of the serious track rats I know have converted to 5 lugs. I'm just not that hardcore

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Except we are talking about an M3 that has been fully gutted with a full roll cage among a pretty substantial list of mods and in total likely 75K in mods IF "upgraded engine" means a built engine. Plus lets not forget this car is running on cup tires to which are a big advantage…
On the other hand, a stock 991S with only 400 hp and a 32xx-33xx curb weight is still faster and has not compromised street drivability in doing so. The 991 chassis is just too damn good.

he hasn't gutted his car - not when this lap was recorded. he had only installed the cage, which added weight. and his motor isn't built, so WTF are you talking about? the only engine mods he has include a tune and x-pipe. just admit that this is a really damn impressive lap, which is more than on-par with the current 911S and 997 GT3. not to mention, if he took the cage out, not only would he be faster, but he would have all the increased comfort and added space that an M3 has and a 911 does not. in either case he has a full trunk - in the case where he didn't have the cage, he would also have a full back seat with room for 2 adults. so STFU about compromised street driveability.

not to mention, the Corvette owns the 911 in terms of track performance (particularly given the price points), so just drop the BS about the 911 being the end-all, be-all.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Brosef

he hasn't gutted his car - not when this lap was recorded. he had only installed the cage, which added weight. and his motor isn't built, so WTF are you talking about? the only engine mods he has include a tune and x-pipe. just admit that this is a really damn impressive lap, which is more than on-par with the current 911S and 997 GT3. not to mention, if he took the cage out, not only would he be faster, but he would have all the increased comfort and added space that an M3 has and a 911 does not. in either case he has a full trunk - in the case where he didn't have the cage, he would also have a full back seat with room for 2 adults. so STFU about compromised street driveability.

not to mention, the Corvette owns the 911 in terms of track performance (particularly given the price points), so just drop the BS about the 911 being the end-all, be-all.

I thought he had a stroker engine?

[USCTrojanMan29]

Originally Posted by ChrisF

Anyone who thinks the center locks aren't a big deal hasn't had to change them repeatedly at the track. Let me walk you through the joy us owners get with them:

1. Can't break or torque the wheels on the ground. Car must be in the air. Requires a torque wrench capable of 444ft/lbs. Also requires a huge breaker bar.
2. Once in the air, break the wheels and remove.
3. Wheel off, inspect the center lock nut, hub, wheel surfaces for any sign of slippage.
4. Disassemble center lock nut, clean, regrease with Optimolly grease (the nastiest substance on earth next to plutonium)
5. Reinstall wheel, hand tighten nut.
6. Tighten nut to spec, back it off 45 degrees, re-torque (all while in the air)
7. inspect each wheel to ensure the center spline is engaged (popped and flush)
8. Wheel hubs time out as follows: front - 8000 track miles; rear - 4000 track miles. Cost...a used Golf.

Miss any steps and risk single point catastrophic failure. Most of the serious track rats I know have converted to 5 lugs. I'm just not that hardcore

I went 5 lug after 3 DE events.

[positiveions]

Originally Posted by USCTrojanMan29

+1 Once you go GT3 you never go back. Speaking of that, I'm selling my GT3, see the link below...

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...8#post15216668

Your car is clean my friend.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Except we are talking about an M3 that has been fully gutted with a full roll cage among a pretty substantial list of mods and in total likely 75K in mods IF "upgraded engine" means a built engine. Plus lets not forget this car is running on cup tires to which are a big advantage…
On the other hand, a stock 991S with only 400 hp and a 32xx-33xx curb weight is still faster and has not compromised street drivability in doing so. The 991 chassis is just too damn good.

You're moving the goal posts buddy. I was responding to your previous comments, which were clearly way off. You're now shifting your position significantly.

Stock for stock there's no doubt that the 991 chassis is superior in performance to the E92 chassis. Who said it isn't?

But the road course performance difference between a well modified M3 and the 991 C2S/997 GT3 is minor, as demonstrated. If you read my post and watched the videos, you saw that the difference between Lukester's M3 and the 4.0 EDIT: comes with cup tires, by the way -- probably the greatest 911 of all time driven by a Porsche test driver -- was only about 5-6 seconds between those two points on the ring (a longer "lap" than most tracks around the world). That's amazing for christ's sake... Give the car and driver some credit dude.

I'd suggest that you can take a E9X M3, invest ~$15k (not $75k) in performance mods and some convenient weight reduction -- exhaust, battery, seats, etc. -- and be at or near equal performance without sacrificing much usability at all. Will it be as good to drive as the GT3? Possess all of the absolutely ideal performance characteristics of that car? Probably not for most, but some are willing to trade and sacrifice some of that GT3'ness for the practicality of the M3.

For whatever reason M3 owners seem particularly afflicted with the "grass is greener" mentality and an active imagination about just how amazingly better this or that car is. For example, you thought that the difference in 'ring lap time between Lukester's M3 and the 991 C2S was about one minute. How could you possibly think that if you watched the M3 lap.

I don't know if this imagination keeps guys motivated or what. Between an M3 and a regular car, the performance delta is massive. Between a well set up M3 and 997 and 991 911s, and many "supercars", the performance delta is often times marginal, and comes down to the driver. I've seen that play out on track countless times. Guys that move on from the M3 and expect other worldly performance from cars that are considered the next step up -- 911s, R8s, etc. are bound to be disappointed.

I'm not saying that the M3 is the end all be all, or that there's no reason to covet something like a GT3, but the M3 is regularly underestimated -- mostly, no offense, by guys who have not actually tapped into it's real performance potential, and who have imaginings about how grossly inferior it is to the latest 911, or whatever.

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

You're moving the goal posts buddy. I was responding to your previous comments, which were clearly way off. You're now shifting your position significantly.

Stock for stock there's no doubt that the 991 chassis is superior in performance to the E92 chassis. Who said it isn't?

But the road course performance difference between a well modified M3 and the 991 C2S/997 GT3 is minor, as demonstrated. If you read my post and watched the videos, you saw that the difference between Lukester's M3 and the 4.0 -- probably the greatest 911 of all time driven by a Porsche test driver -- was only about 5-6 seconds between those two points on the ring (a longer "lap" than most tracks around the world). That's amazing for christ's sake... Give the car and driver some credit dude.

I'd suggest that you can take a E9X M3, invest ~$15k (not $75k) in performance mods and some convenient weight reduction -- exhaust, battery, seats, etc. -- and be at or near equal performance without sacrificing much usability at all. Will it be as good to drive as the GT3? Possess all of the absolutely ideal performance characteristics of that car? Probably not for most, but some are willing to trade and sacrifice some of that GT3'ness for the practicality of the M3.

For whatever reason M3 owners seem particularly afflicted with the "grass is greener" mentality and an active imagination about just how amazingly better this or that car is. For example, you thought that the difference in 'ring lap time between Lukester's M3 and the 991 C2S was about one minute. How could you possibly think that if you watched the M3 lap.

I don't know if this imagination keeps guys motivated or what. Between an M3 and a regular car, the performance delta is massive. Between a well set up M3 and 997 and 991 911s, and many "supercars", the performance delta is often times marginal, and comes down to the driver. I've seen that play out on track countless times. Guys that move on from the M3 and expect other worldly performance from cars that are considered the next step up -- 911s, R8s, etc. are bound to be disappointed.

I'm not saying that the M3 is the end all be all, or that there's no reason to covet something like a GT3, but the M3 is regularly underestimated -- mostly, no offense, by guys who have not actually tapped into it's real performance potential, and who have imaginings about how grossly inferior it is to the latest 911, or whatever.

very well said and I agree 100%

EDIT: I would also add that if you took an e90, which has a base price of around $63k including DCT and competition package and then spend $12k on a supercharger and $6k on a BBK, you could run with just about any GT3 on the Ring, pocket a huge amount of extra cash, and have a practical and comfortable 4-door. now, I'm not saying this should sway any potential GT3 buyer (and it certainly doesn't), but I think it's pretty amazing how capable this car is on the track while being incredibly comfortable/practical.

[ChrisF]

On your average track, I don't believe the performance delta between the M3 and GT3 is insignificant. At least that has been my experience.

I love both cars and am pretty far from being a fanboy of any particular car. Both are amazingly capable. One is stupid fast even when driven by a less experienced driver (M3). The other demands a lot more of its driver to be driven well (GT3). Stock for stock, equal drivers, my guess would be a 4-6 second gap on an 2:00 lap time track. I hope to prove this theory when I track my M3.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by ChrisF

On your average track, I don't believe the performance delta between the M3 and GT3 is insignificant. At least that has been my experience.

I love both cars and am pretty far from being a fanboy of any particular car. Both are amazingly capable. One is stupid fast even when driven by a less experienced driver (M3). The other demands a lot more of its driver to be driven well (GT3). Stock for stock, equal drivers, my guess would be a 4-6 second gap on an 2:00 lap time track. I hope to prove this theory when I track my M3.

I agree. Stock for stock it's not very close. This whole discussion is because wolfie claimed that even a well modified M3 -- upper level coilovers, bbk, tires, etc. -- can't hold a candle to the 991 C2S/997 GT3.