Our Shop car's two new friends... E90/E92 M3 twin turbo kit

[DMafia46]

i smell bans coming lol

[ki__]

This is exciting

[chungdae]

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by dvpouldar26

You're correct. Gintani said in their original post they have a car up and running and they have shown that it runs. Have they released dyno numbers, details, 60-130, etc? No. They never have and never will. Did they say that they're expecting for it to take 2 months until release? Yes, but with any new development there are delays... I can't even count how many times thisnhas happened on other forums and platforms.... Look at the 997.2's and their pdk and fueling upgrades; vendors have been working on those solutions for years without many results yet. As of now gintani is the only vendor offering this so seems like all everyone could do is be patient and wait... I'd rather have a kit take forever to be developed and be well thought out than be released prematurely and have subsequent hiccups and problems.

I agree. I have no problems with them taking the time to get everything perfect. And, unlike those who criticize the timing of releasing a turbo kit at the end of the E9x M3's lifecycle, I actually think the timing is right for such a product: There will be plenty of F8x M3/4 envy when those cars start hitting the road. But instead of shelling out for a brand-new M3/4, someone can slap a TT kit on an existing E9x M3 and end up with a car that will be able to keep up even with FBOs F8x M3/4.

The only area where Gintani might have done things differently is to (1) not give everyone the impression that the TT kit was basically ready to ship, and (2) going radio silent when they ran into inevitable bugs. A bit less dog and pony in the beginning and a little more update along the way might have avoided a lot of the hate.

That said, I think the Gintani hate is a little disproportionate.

[BobS]

I think the gintani kit will do more than keep up with a FBO s55. No replacement for displacement

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Hujan

I agree. I have no problems with them taking the time to get everything perfect. And, unlike those who criticize the timing of releasing a turbo kit at the end of the E9x M3's lifecycle, I actually think the timing is right for such a product: There will be plenty of F8x M3/4 envy when those cars start hitting the road. But instead of shelling out for a brand-new M3/4, someone can slap a TT kit on an existing E9x M3 and end up with a car that will be able to keep up even with FBOs F8x M3/4.

The only area where Gintani might have done things differently is to (1) not give everyone the impression that the TT kit was basically ready to ship, and (2) going radio silent when they ran into inevitable bugs. A bit less dog and pony in the beginning and a little more update along the way might have avoided a lot of the hate.

That said, I think the Gintani hate is a little disproportionate.

I'm pretty sure that the higher level supercharger kits will already be much faster then FBOs M3/M4, that is if the S55 reacts well to mods, if it does'nt, I think that just the entry level kit like mine should be enough to keep up with them or even beat them! The twin turbo kit, if it end up working well, should be able to turn our M3 into something much faster then that, more in the range of high powered GT-Rs!

[dvpouldar26]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

I'm pretty sure that the higher level supercharger kits will already be much faster then FBOs M3/M4, that is if the S55 reacts well to mods, if it does'nt, I think that just the entry level kit like mine should be enough to keep up with them or even beat them! The twin turbo kit, if it end up working well, should be able to turn our M3 into something much faster then that, more in the range of high powered GT-Rs!

Making predictions about how the m3/m4 will react to mods is pretty pointless IMO. If the S55 is anything like the S63tu in the m5, tuning will be delayed as well. It's been 2 years since the s63tu has been out and no "real" tunes are available other than simple piggybacks that dont even alter ignition or timing targets. The performance of the s55 with mods is pure conjecture. In addition, IMO in recent years bmw has caught on to all the modding and has responded accordingly. Look at the response of modding of the n55 vs the n54. Ind's and Ams's research on the s63tu revealed that the stock rods are only good for ~200hp over oem. And don't forget dct limits either (the dct has been out for years as well still without a viable marketed upgrade)...if the s55 follows any if these trends, I don't think these modded s55's will be all that everyone's hoping for. So I really think comparing a FBO s55 is a little premature. In addition, with the higher Ve, higher displacement, and higher redline of the s65, I simply think it won't be a comparison at all.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by dvpouldar26

Making predictions about how the m3/m4 will react to mods is pretty pointless IMO. If the S55 is anything like the S63tu in the m5, tuning will be delayed as well. It's been 2 years since the s63tu has been out and no "real" tunes are available other than simple piggybacks that dont even alter ignition or timing targets. The performance of the s55 with mods is pure conjecture. In addition, IMO in recent years bmw has caught on to all the modding and has responded accordingly. Look at the response of modding of the n55 vs the n54. Ind's and Ams's research on the s63tu revealed that the stock rods are only good for ~200hp over oem. And don't forget dct limits either (the dct has been out for years as well still without a viable marketed upgrade)...if the s55 follows any if these trends, I don't think these modded s55's will be all that everyone's hoping for. So I really think comparing a FBO s55 is a little premature. In addition, with the higher Ve, higher displacement, and higher redline of the s65, I simply think it won't be a comparison at all.

Yes it's soon to predict the performance of a FBO S55 but I think it's safe to say that it wont trap higher then 132mph like the ESS cars does!

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by dvpouldar26

Making predictions about how the m3/m4 will react to mods is pretty pointless IMO. If the S55 is anything like the S63tu in the m5, tuning will be delayed as well. It's been 2 years since the s63tu has been out and no "real" tunes are available other than simple piggybacks that dont even alter ignition or timing targets. The performance of the s55 with mods is pure conjecture. In addition, IMO in recent years bmw has caught on to all the modding and has responded accordingly. Look at the response of modding of the n55 vs the n54. Ind's and Ams's research on the s63tu revealed that the stock rods are only good for ~200hp over oem. And don't forget dct limits either (the dct has been out for years as well still without a viable marketed upgrade)...if the s55 follows any if these trends, I don't think these modded s55's will be all that everyone's hoping for. So I really think comparing a FBO s55 is a little premature. In addition, with the higher Ve, higher displacement, and higher redline of the s65, I simply think it won't be a comparison at all.

That's a good point. I was sort of extrapolating from the N54, which we'd all agree has insane modding potential. Just catless downpipes, an upgraded FMIC, and a tune/piggyback results in massive horsepower increases. When you start adding meth and larger turbos, things get even more insane. But I hadn't considered the difficulty the newer cars are having with tunes.

Anyway, it's a moot point. Regardless of what a FBO S55 would be able to achieve, the fact that a TT kit would make the S65 equivalent to or faster than a FBO S55 with just as much area under the curve makes a TT kit on your E9x M3 a good alternative to the F8x M3/4.

Regarding the redline, can we safely assume that we'd be able to retain an 8,300 RPM redline with a TT kit? I'm not so sure.

[GabeS]

Im very curious why the video didnt show the turbo's spooling, most turbo kit videos, show under the hood, where you can hear the spool and see the beautifull work.. how come not one video or picture showing this?
I cant see all videos posted in this thread due to my work's firewall so maybe I missed it?

And as much a supporter as I am of this thread, I cant seem to wonder why no real running videos, and if all these people went to willow springs and saw this very famous build why no shots or videos?

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by GabeS

Im very curious why the video didnt show the turbo's spooling, most turbo kit videos, show under the hood, where you can hear the spool and see the beautifull work.. how come not one video or picture showing this?
I cant see all videos posted in this thread due to my work's firewall so maybe I missed it?

And as much a supporter as I am of this thread, I cant seem to wonder why no real running videos, and if all these people went to willow springs and saw this very famous build why no shots or videos?

[okusa]

Originally Posted by dvpouldar26

It's been 2 years since the s63tu has been out and no "real" tunes are available other than simple piggybacks that dont even alter ignition or timing targets.

Also the E9x was released in Europe a year before it came to the states. So, it did not seem to take so long for mods to be released here. However, the F8x is being released worldwide, so mods will take that much longer.

[Mit_Boost]

Originally Posted by Hujan

Regarding the redline, can we safely assume that we'd be able to retain an 8,300 RPM redline with a TT kit? I'm not so sure.

While it'll have a redline of 8,300 RPMs, you'll be out of the boost curve and down on power at that point (you have to taper boost down before you hit redline). Chances are the car will be fastest if you shift at 8k (or just under), very different from a Centri Blower setup where the more you ring it out the more power you have.

Each motor has it's pro's & con's:

• The F3x/S55 will be built for boost from BMW and will probably benefit from software & simple bolt-ons (catless DPs, Intercooler Upgrade, etc). BUT this is all dependent on properly modifying the OEM tune tables (to adjust Boost, Ignition, Valvetronic & Fueling Tables), which hasn't shown to be an easy accomplishment on the F1x M5/M6. It also is a Direct Injection Motor & no one knows how much boost is left in the OEM Turbos (ex: the N54 stock tune only ran 8 psi, FBO setups commonly run 18 psi).
• Meanwhile the E9x/S65 has been out for a while, it's still Port Injection (easy to upgrade), can be tuned off the stock DME or go standalone, has been very explored (we know the limitations of the OEM components and have viable upgrades for built motors), AND it has a very high VE, making it super-boost friendly (just look at the gains when you bolt a TT kit onto a Lambo V10).

Originally Posted by GabeS

Im very curious why the video didnt show the turbo's spooling, most turbo kit videos, show under the hood, where you can hear the spool and see the beautifull work.. how come not one video or picture showing this?
I cant see all videos posted in this thread due to my work's firewall so maybe I missed it?

And as much a supporter as I am of this thread, I cant seem to wonder why no real running videos, and if all these people went to willow springs and saw this very famous build why no shots or videos?

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

There's nothing to show under the hood, because the turbos aren't mounted topside like a Supra The turbos are both located post exhaust manifold/pre-mid section exhaust, like a GTR. PS - Alex, you're showing your bias again. But because you asked, here's an underhood pic:



Like you can see, the manifold is very similar to their supecharger kit (the TT-setup will also be Air/Water), but the intake & pipe routing has clearly been tailored to the TT-configuration, the BOV is clearly visible at the back of the manifold.

If you look around on Instagram, Gintani hasn't "hidden" the car by any means. Just use the hashtags #Gintani #projectm3tt or look at the "Gintani" + "mclubla" accounts and the car is regularly posted. MClubLA even has a video of the car at the SpeedDistrict track day.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Mit_Boost

While it'll have a redline of 8,300 RPMs, you'll be out of the boost curve and down on power at that point (you have to taper boost down before you hit redline). Chances are the car will be fastest if you shift at 8k (or just under), very different from a Centri Blower setup where the more you ring it out the more power you have.

Each motor has it's pro's & con's:

• The F3x/S55 will be built for boost from BMW and will probably benefit from software & simple bolt-ons (catless DPs, Intercooler Upgrade, etc). BUT this is all dependent on properly modifying the OEM tune tables (to adjust Boost, Ignition, Valvetronic & Fueling Tables), which hasn't shown to be an easy accomplishment on the F1x M5/M6. It also is a Direct Injection Motor & no one knows how much boost is left in the OEM Turbos (ex: the N54 stock tune only ran 8 psi, FBO setups commonly run 18 psi).
• Meanwhile the E9x/S65 has been out for a while, it's still Port Injection (easy to upgrade), can be tuned off the stock DME or go standalone, has been very explored (we know the limitations of the OEM components and have viable upgrades for built motors), AND it has a very high VE, making it super-boost friendly (just look at the gains when you bolt a TT kit onto a Lambo V10).

There's nothing to show under the hood, because the turbos aren't mounted topside like a Supra The turbos are both located post exhaust manifold/pre-mid section exhaust, like a GTR. PS - Alex, you're showing your bias again.

If you look around on Instagram, Gintani hasn't "hidden" the car by any means. Just use the hashtags #Gintani #projectm3tt or look at the "Gintani" + "mclubla" accounts and the car is regularly posted. MClubLA even has a video of the car at the SpeedDistrict track day.

I'm not bias, I just want updates!

Thanks for the pic BTW

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by Mit_Boost

While it'll have a redline of 8,300 RPMs, you'll be out of the boost curve and down on power at that point (you have to taper boost down before you hit redline). Chances are the car will be fastest if you shift at 8k (or just under), very different from a Centri Blower setup where the more you ring it out the more power you have.

Each motor has it's pro's & con's:

• The F3x/S55 will be built for boost from BMW and will probably benefit from software & simple bolt-ons (catless DPs, Intercooler Upgrade, etc). BUT this is all dependent on properly modifying the OEM tune tables (to adjust Boost, Ignition, Valvetronic & Fueling Tables), which hasn't shown to be an easy accomplishment on the F1x M5/M6. It also is a Direct Injection Motor & no one knows how much boost is left in the OEM Turbos (ex: the N54 stock tune only ran 8 psi, FBO setups commonly run 18 psi).
• Meanwhile the E9x/S65 has been out for a while, it's still Port Injection (easy to upgrade), can be tuned off the stock DME or go standalone, has been very explored (we know the limitations of the OEM components and have viable upgrades for built motors), AND it has a very high VE, making it super-boost friendly (just look at the gains when you bolt a TT kit onto a Lambo V10).

There's nothing to show under the hood, because the turbos aren't mounted topside like a Supra The turbos are both located post exhaust manifold/pre-mid section exhaust, like a GTR. PS - Alex, you're showing your bias again. But because you asked, here's an underhood pic:



Like you can see, the manifold is very similar to their supecharger kit (the TT-setup will also be Air/Water), but the intake & pipe routing has clearly been tailored to the TT-configuration, the BOV is clearly visible at the back of the manifold.

If you look around on Instagram, Gintani hasn't "hidden" the car by any means. Just use the hashtags #Gintani #projectm3tt or look at the "Gintani" + "mclubla" accounts and the car is regularly posted. MClubLA even has a video of the car at the SpeedDistrict track day.

That is a very good looking manifold and air box. Looks very OEM. I am always excited about FI kits that maintain an OEM look in the engine bay (e.g., this or the Harrop TVS kit).

[GabeS]

Makes sense, my bad, I was hoping to see a huge snail spooling...

[meez]

99% of you are complaining about this kit.
99% of you are not going to buy this kit.
99% of you are wasting your time.
Including me, because I posted this.

[Someone?]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

I'm pretty sure that the higher level supercharger kits will already be much faster then FBOs M3/M4, that is if the S55 reacts well to mods, if it does'nt, I think that just the entry level kit like mine should be enough to keep up with them or even beat them! The twin turbo kit, if it end up working well, should be able to turn our M3 into something much faster then that, more in the range of high powered GT-Rs!

A e92 M3 with a Akra, stage 2 tune and intake and pulley will outperform the S55 now, any SC kit and theres no comparison. BMW all ready let it be known there will be no tuning to there Vault like ECU on the S55.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by ibmike

A e92 M3 with a Akra, stage 2 tune and intake and pulley will outperform the S55 now, any SC kit and theres no comparison. BMW all ready let it be known there will be no tuning to there Vault like ECU on the S55.

Hummm, not so sure about the FBOs S65 beating the stock S55! I got a feeling that a stock M3/M4 will be close to C63 507 or 09-10 GT-R in term of acceleration, a car that traps 118-120mph IMO!

[Mit_Boost]

Originally Posted by ibmike

A e92 M3 with a Akra, stage 2 tune and intake and pulley will outperform the S55 now, any SC kit and theres no comparison. BMW all ready let it be known there will be no tuning to there Vault like ECU on the S55.

Highly debatable, while an FBO E9x M3 will have more peak HP, the F3x/S55 will have significantly better area under the curve, specifically a much meatier TQ curve that will help get the car moving (besides the fact that it's already slightly lighter than an E9x M3).


Just need some official 1/4 Mile Traps & ETs to find out where it stands in 100% Stock Trim.

[BobS]

I would say a stock s55 m3/m4 will be equal to a FBO s65. The weight BMW posted on the f8x m3/m4 was dry(no fluids) so it isn't as light as everyone thought. A supercharged s65 will crush a stock or even FBO s55 IMO

[m3less]

WOW with a huge smile :-)) is all I can say!! I had the chance to ride in Gintani's ttv8 M3 beast yesterday.
Having the chance to ride in a few supercharged e90 M3's and driven one, all that is apparent is that the twin turbo setup is perfect! The turbo's kick in so early and the powerband is smooth! Instant HIT spinning the dual 315 wide patches at the rear! I guess in a way you could compare the ttv8 to a positive displacement 5.0..in a way but better lol I can't disclose hp/tq #'s but for the guys waiting for this kit, the wait will be worth every penny even the low boost setup on pump(which is what I had the opportunity to experience). Then the fact that when the hood is popped, with black intake mani and untrained eye, engine bay looks stock. The drivability in traffic at slow speeds was flawless.. I can't say enough positive things to describe the flawless characteristics of the car from civil to satan at the press of the throttle. Amazing!