Alcon BBK via Bimmerworld or AP Racing Pro 5000R?

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by spxxx

I decided to be safe and go with the AP 9668 after the KB issues with ST40R. Didn't love having to drive around the issue or deal with swapping pads every 3-4 events since they wore so fast. Time for the 25mm meat pads!

yeah if you're going to get something new, vs the PFC.. do 25mm pads.

im still kicking with my pads on a daily/track driven basis.. and life has been good.

once the rain stops i'll pull them off to see how they have worn out, in almost 6 months.

[Richbot]

I started a new thread obviously on my quest for a street/occasional track kit. One thing I'm annoyed by is how much most kits are overkill for my needs. The AP 372 is probably the least-silly of the not-Stoptech options at this point. One of my primary objectives for brakes up front is weight

The 35mm thick Stoptech is similarly absurd to the Alcon 36mm rotor. 380x36mm is the OEM thickness and almost the OEM diameter on 600+hp 4500lb 190mph AMG cars. Mine can't punish brakes like a 600hp AMG can, and it might do 190mph downhill with a tailwind and 10 miles of straight, and it weighs 3500lb and I don't need the rotors to last longer than the car at the expense of spinning weight that's relatively far away from the hub, and at the expense of wheel choice! Even the 355 on the front of my car has lasted foreeeeeever

Tragic, truly

[cmichaelo]

I'm about to upgrade to Essex's AP Racing RadiCal BBK and am curious if you guys are dealing directly with Essex or via a reseller?

I spoke with Essex already and they pointed me to "Apex Performance" in NC. They highly recommend them. Supposedly their biggest reseller in the country. Anyone know this outfit?

[e9x_chucky]

Originally Posted by cmichaelo

I'm about to upgrade to Essex's AP Racing RadiCal BBK and am curious if you guys are dealing directly with Essex or via a reseller?

I spoke with Essex already and they pointed me to "Apex Performance" in NC. They highly recommend them. Supposedly their biggest reseller in the country. Anyone know this outfit?

Message Joey Hutchinson on FB, I reached out to him for a quote for both the Essex AP 9668 kit and BW Alcon CR6420 kit. He has the absolute best pricing for both kits, I myself went with the BW Alcon.

[e36clubracer]

Originally Posted by cmichaelo

I'm about to upgrade to Essex's AP Racing RadiCal BBK and am curious if you guys are dealing directly with Essex or via a reseller?

I spoke with Essex already and they pointed me to "Apex Performance" in NC. They highly recommend them. Supposedly their biggest reseller in the country. Anyone know this outfit?

Apex has been around for a long time. Linda is the owner and they are great people. I wouldn’t hesitate to buy anything from them.

[bananabun]

Originally Posted by cmichaelo

I'm about to upgrade to Essex's AP Racing RadiCal BBK and am curious if you guys are dealing directly with Essex or via a reseller?

I spoke with Essex already and they pointed me to "Apex Performance" in NC. They highly recommend them. Supposedly their biggest reseller in the country. Anyone know this outfit?

Jason OG Shark is a dealer and is amazing to work with. I learn a lot about this platform and the parts every time I speak with him. He's a forum sponsor and will give you a great price, too. Can't recommend enough.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1876969

[1FastSicilian]

Originally Posted by spxxx

I decided to be safe and go with the AP 9668 after the KB issues with ST40R. Didn't love having to drive around the issue or deal with swapping pads every 3-4 events since they wore so fast. Time for the 25mm meat pads!

funny enough, I just did the same thing..

Now I'm trying to figure out what pad to go with.. Was not happy with my DTC70s..

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by 1FastSicilian

funny enough, I just did the same thing..

Now I'm trying to figure out what pad to go with.. Was not happy with my DTC70s..

PFC 11 (progressive), 13 (high bite/friction), 39 (sprint/enduro, high CoF from low to high temp), 331/332 (new pad developed by BW/PFC to work well with stock abs systems, 331 front & 332 rear)

Cobalt XR1 (similar to CT XP20), XR2 (similar to CT XP12)

I’m now 100% PFC for track/race pads since I first tried the 01 compound.

I use PFC 11 on tracks with high speed braking zones (VIR) because the braking torque increases with temp (progressive) so you’re confident the pad’s always there at the end. Great modulation and release. Lower initial bite.

PFC 13 has high initial bite, high torque, and progressive-digressive CoF (extremely high max CoF mid op temp, slightly progressive before peak & slightly digressive after peak). I use this on tracks with heavy/many braking events.

PFC 39 has high initial bite, high torque and the flattest CoF vs temp curve. I use this when running super sticky tires.

No experience with 331/332 but I’ve heard nothing but good things about them. I find the 332 CoF vs temp curve looks more like a performance street pad, not a track/race pad.

I haven’t used Cobalt for years (since finding PFC) but their XR1 is similar to the PFC 05 (discontinued). 05 was one of my favorite brake pads on my track-prep e46 M3. XR2 is good for tires with higher TW ratings.

[1FastSicilian]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

PFC 11 (progressive), 13 (high bite/friction), 39 (sprint/enduro, high CoF from low to high temp), 331/332 (new pad developed by BW/PFC to work well with stock abs systems, 331 front & 332 rear)

Cobalt XR1 (similar to CT XP20), XR2 (similar to CT XP12)

I’m now 100% PFC for track/race pads since I first tried the 01 compound.

I use PFC 11 on tracks with high speed braking zones (VIR) because the braking torque increases with temp (progressive) so you’re confident the pad’s always there at the end. Great modulation and release. Lower initial bite.

PFC 13 has high initial bite, high torque, and progressive-digressive CoF (extremely high max CoF mid op temp, slightly progressive before peak & slightly digressive after peak). I use this on tracks with heavy/many braking events.

PFC 39 has high initial bite, high torque and the flattest CoF vs temp curve. I use this when running super sticky tires.

No experience with 331/332 but I’ve heard nothing but good things about them. I find the 332 CoF vs temp curve looks more like a performance street pad, not a track/race pad.

I haven’t used Cobalt for years (since finding PFC) but their XR1 is similar to the PFC 05 (discontinued). 05 was one of my favorite brake pads on my track-prep e46 M3. XR2 is good for tires with higher TW ratings.

Great info here!!

I ran the PFC08s on my e46 and I did like them alot.. I ran several sets of Hawks and I just think they aren't that great. Good bite but they wear fast and once they wear down to 50% I feel they start to slack..

After doing some research, I'm thinking of the 331/332 set up.. I looked at the graph on the PFC website and I think they're a great pad based off the data they provide and they're cheaper than Pagid, which is what I was thinking of going with initially.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by 1FastSicilian

Great info here!!

I ran the PFC08s on my e46 and I did like them alot.. I ran several sets of Hawks and I just think they aren't that great. Good bite but they wear fast and once they wear down to 50% I feel they start to slack..

After doing some research, I'm thinking of the 331/332 set up.. I looked at the graph on the PFC website and I think they're a great pad based off the data they provide and they're cheaper than Pagid, which is what I was thinking of going with initially.

The 331/332 combo is fantastic. I'm not sure you can get them for the AP brakes

[DRLane]

AP compatible PFC sizing is 7790.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by DRLane

AP compatible PFC sizing is 7790.

Also, the CP9449 caliper uses the PFC 7768 pad which can be made from the PFC 7745 pad. The 7768 pad shape is identical to the 7767 (Ferodo frp216) pad shape except for the pad inner radius which is larger on the 7768. So the IR of the 7767 pad is increased to create the 7768 pad.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by DRLane

AP compatible PFC sizing is 7790.

But the 7790 is the front, right? Is there a 332 fitment in the rear pad of the AP kit?

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

But the 7790 is the front, right? Is there a 332 fitment in the rear pad of the AP kit?

Good question. The AP sizes are so standard I’ve never seen something from PFC that wasn’t available. Cursory glance the 7745 and 7768 shapes look available in 332. But def worth checking

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by 1FastSicilian

Great info here!!

I ran the PFC08s on my e46 and I did like them alot.. I ran several sets of Hawks and I just think they aren't that great. Good bite but they wear fast and once they wear down to 50% I feel they start to slack..

After doing some research, I'm thinking of the 331/332 set up.. I looked at the graph on the PFC website and I think they're a great pad based off the data they provide and they're cheaper than Pagid, which is what I was thinking of going with initially.

If you liked the 08, I’d recommend trying the 01 which is similar to the 08 but better CoF at low-mid temps and better fade resistance. It’s one of their oldest pad compounds (along with the 97) but it’s still a solid pad. In 2004, I was primarily running DTC70 F & R on my e46 M3 when James talked me into trying PFC pads. Started with the 01 and I couldn’t believe how well the 01 performed compared to the DTC70 (DTC70 used in the morning, 01 in the afternoon). The 01 just did everything better. I’ve only used PFC race pads since then. 05 was my favorite until they discontinued the compound and released the 13.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

But the 7790 is the front, right? Is there a 332 fitment in the rear pad of the AP kit?

Radicals and BMW GT3 prior gen use the PFC 7767 so it’s offered in a lot of different compounds. I personally haven’t used the 331/332 compounds but I included it because I’ve heard good things from friends that have used it.

[danvitmon]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Radicals use the PFC 7745 so it’s offered in a lot of different compounds. I personally haven’t used the 331/332 compounds but I included it because I’ve heard good things from friends that have used it.

FWIW I run/manage three spec E46 race cars, all of which run the 331/332 compounds. One of our drivers is a consistent podium placer and nobody has any issues with the pads. I believe most of the field runs the same pads as well.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by danvitmon

FWIW I run/manage three spec E46 race cars, all of which run the 331/332 compounds. One of our drivers is a consistent podium placer and nobody has any issues with the pads. I believe most of the field runs the same pads as well.

I’m not surprised. That’s why I included the 331/332 combination in my list. I could have easily left it off because I’ve never used it but like I said I’ve heard good things from people who have used it. I may try it one day but I have no issues with my pad choices.

[heath27]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Good question. The AP sizes are so standard I’ve never seen something from PFC that wasn’t available. Cursory glance the 7745 and 7768 shapes look available in 332. But def worth checking

Where did you see the 332 in a 7768 size? I looked a while back but could only find an 01. Would like the try the 331/332 combo.

[1FastSicilian]

I'm more than likely doing the 331/332 pads..

I'm only running the 9668 up front with stock rear calipers. They make the 332 for stock calipers and are pretty cheap.. $220 from BW.

[jmeenach]

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a front BBK finally. The Alcon kit has a warning not to use their kit if you regularly drive on the street due to deletion of the dust seals. The AP kit also apparently doesn't have dust seals, but the Essex website doesn't carry the same type of warning (they simply mention all aftermarket BBK's are labeled for offroad use, but that the components that must be DOT compliant are).

I drive 4-5k street miles per year in this car, is there anything I really need to be worried about as it relates to reliability? I'm not asking about pads not operating as well when cold; I'm asking about potential damage to the kit.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by jmeenach

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a front BBK finally. The Alcon kit has a warning not to use their kit if you regularly drive on the street due to deletion of the dust seals. The AP kit also apparently doesn't have dust seals, but the Essex website doesn't carry the same type of warning (they simply mention all aftermarket BBK's are labeled for offroad use, but that the components that must be DOT compliant are).

I drive 4-5k street miles per year in this car, is there anything I really need to be worried about as it relates to reliability? I'm not asking about pads not operating as well when cold; I'm asking about potential damage to the kit.

Both have the same issue when driving on the street. If you don't have salt, I wouldn't be too worried.

We drove pfc, ap and then alcon kits on the street for years, but never in salt or snow