23,000 Miles Between Oil Change

[Dr. Dre]

I recently took my car in to the dealership for the wire harness recall. I was finally able to get the maintenance record. It shows that the car was spot delivered on 5/12/2008. It shows the next maintenance/oil change being performed at the same dealership 1/30/2010 with 23,429.

I realize anything is possible but would the system actually let an owner go 2 years and 23k between oil changes? I realize also that maybe he took the car to an independent but why when it was covered by BMW. Wouldn't it have burned through a ton of oil in that time.

[BOOF-M3]

I have seen used car owners back in the day never ever get an oil change. They just keep adding when it's low. One would have to think it just didn't get recorded in your case. Was it a lease? Fleet? Regular owner?

[Montaver]

The perils of buying a car with no history. If it ran 23k on its original oil with no running in service that could be an issue. Nothing you can really do about it now apart from treat the car properly, so I wouldn't waste energy worrying about it. I would be inclined to avoid ex-lease cars as that encourages this type of negligence. As a side note I suspect finding used f8x cars that were outright purchased and in good shape will be quite difficult as there are so many ex lease cars.

[BOOF-M3]

If you look at allay any Carfax, almost all oil changes were done at 15k intervals in the first few years. Especially the 2008 through 2011's. I would imagine that changed when bmw changed the suggested mileage to 7,500.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

If you look at allay any Carfax, almost all oil changes were done at 15k intervals in the first few years. Especially the 2008 through 2011's. I would imagine that changed when bmw changed the suggested mileage to 7,500.

Anecdotal but my 2009 has all oil changes between 5 - 8k miles from new with running in service done at 1.2k, all on Carfax as it was serviced at BMW. Personally I wouldn't buy an M3 with 15k changes, let alone no service history. Anything that was enthusiast owned isn't going to be on 15k mile service intervals, regardless of what BMW may have recommended. Everyone has different comfort levels though..

[BOOF-M3]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Anecdotal but my 2009 has all oil changes between 5 - 8k miles from new with running in service done at 1.2k, all on Carfax as it was serviced at BMW. Personally I wouldn't buy an M3 with 15k changes, let alone no service history. Anything that was enthusiast owned isn't going to be on 15k mile service intervals, regardless of what BMW may have recommended. Everyone has different comfort levels though..

Lease and fleet cars followed the oil interval schedule of 15k miles in 2008+. Again, Im not aware of when bmw lowered it to 7,500. But back in 20008, 09, 10 I imagine even enthusiasts were doing them at 15k by the looks of the Carfaxes that I have seen recently and I have looked at a lot of them and unfortunately most appeared to be over 10k and closer to the 15k mark. Anyone know when bmw officially changed it from 15k to 7.5k intervals? I do agree with your statement that an enthusiast wouldn't wait that long even if instructed so by BMW. The other question is, if you had a service contract, would bmw allow for 5k oil changes on their dime if the contract called for them at 15k? Would be cool if everyone can look at their Carfax/service log from their car and see what the intervals are. I just looked at one from a 2009. I do not see the break in change and these are the recorded changes, pretty shocking 15, 31, 47, 63, 79. Other than the first one, all are at 16k miles. 1st owner leased the car and sold it right before the 63k change. Is it possible some were not documented? Absolutely.

[MJBO]

Originally Posted by Montaver

I would be inclined to avoid ex-lease cars as that encourages this type of negligence.

That would make for an extremely small pool of cars. I expect most cars of this sort are leased new rather than purchased, and had servicing included as part of the lease. Why would you not follow the schedule when it could cause issues for you at turn in time?

[MJBO]

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

The other question is, if you had a service contract, would bmw allow for 5k oil changes on their dime if the contract called for them at 15k?

Highly doubt it, that would increase their servicing costs significantly. I expect you’d have to pay for any extra servicing yourself.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by MJBO

That would make for an extremely small pool of cars. I expect most cars of this sort are leased new rather than purchased, and had servicing included as part of the lease. Why would you not follow the schedule when it could cause issues for you at turn in time?

Because lease cars are essentially rentals, people treat them as such. If the car is going back there is less motivation to treat it with care and mechanical sympathy. Particularly earlier in the e9x generation leasing was a lot less common than it is now.

[DSilk]

There is always the possibility that oil changes were done at shops other than the dealership...

[DerEisbaer]

Wasn't the initial oil for delivery 5W30 and needed to be changed after 1000-2000kms?

Maybe the initial change was missed (clocking in after 1500 mls) and than the owner run past the computer (showing up at 18k mls then maybe) for a little bit on the 2nd oil change, making it a total of 23,000mls...

What about the RB? Oil report available?

[Dr. Dre]

Originally Posted by DerEisbaer

Wasn't the initial oil for delivery 5W30 and needed to be changed after 1000-2000kms?

Maybe the initial change was missed (clocking in after 1500 mls) and than the owner run past the computer (showing up at 18k mls then maybe) for a little bit on the 2nd oil change, making it a total of 23,000mls...

What about the RB? Oil report available?

Keep in mind that the oil changes for BMW are submitted as part of the warranty. So if a BMW dealership did the maintenance in order to get paid for they would have to submit a claim.

I purchased the car with 85K. I had the bearings done the next day. Amazingly the bearings didn't look any different than most I've seen on this forum. One bearing had a scratch running down the middle of it.

[nrubenstein]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Because lease cars are essentially rentals, people treat them as such. If the car is going back there is less motivation to treat it with care and mechanical sympathy. Particularly earlier in the e9x generation leasing was a lot less common than it is now.

Uh. Leasing was much more heavily subsidized during the E9x era than it is today. (Edit: At least in the US.)

FWIW, if someone is buying new, it usually makes sense to lease these cars even if you plan to keep it forever. A leased car means that you have an option on it. If it gets wrecked, or the car is a turd, just hand it back at the end. The slightly increased interest expense is minimal, and leases are more likely to have heavy subsidy applied.

My parents got burned badly by buying an SL55 AMG. It cost them around $30-40k extra buying vs. leasing that turd. Since then, they lease everything. If they like it, they keep it. (In this case, they still have the '08 E93 M3 and the '10 S4.)

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by nrubenstein

My parents got burned badly by buying an SL55 AMG. It cost them around $30-40k extra buying vs. leasing that turd. Since then, they lease everything. If they like it, they keep it. (In this case, they still have the '08 E93 M3 and the '10 S4.)

When you say it cost 30-40k extra, are you saying that buying at time A and selling at time B had a 30-40k greater loss than if they leased at time A and turned it in at time B?

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Dr. Dre

I recently took my car in to the dealership for the wire harness recall. I was finally able to get the maintenance record. It shows that the car was spot delivered on 5/12/2008. It shows the next maintenance/oil change being performed at the same dealership 1/30/2010 with 23,429.

I realize anything is possible but would the system actually let an owner go 2 years and 23k between oil changes? I realize also that maybe he took the car to an independent but why when it was covered by BMW. Wouldn't it have burned through a ton of oil in that time.

Not all engines burn oil. In fact, if that person racked up 23,429 miles in about 20 months, that's a decent amount of driving -- and probably mostly highway, which isn't too hard on the oil. It's also possible they did the change themselves or just had an indy shop do it. Resetting the counter/reminder is pretty easy.

I would've been curious to see an analysis of that oil.

[Scrippy]

My cars history probably says the same and I could give two shits. I've done my own changes every 5,000 since 30,000. I feel like when you look in the engine bay it's easy to see who cares about their car and who doesn't. I wouldn't care at this point buddy. This is a lot like tracking down your lovers past sex life. Do you really wanna know if things are going good?

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by nrubenstein

Uh. Leasing was much more heavily subsidized during the E9x era than it is today. (Edit: At least in the US.)

FWIW, if someone is buying new, it usually makes sense to lease these cars even if you plan to keep it forever. A leased car means that you have an option on it. If it gets wrecked, or the car is a turd, just hand it back at the end. The slightly increased interest expense is minimal, and leases are more likely to have heavy subsidy applied.

My parents got burned badly by buying an SL55 AMG. It cost them around $30-40k extra buying vs. leasing that turd. Since then, they lease everything. If they like it, they keep it. (In this case, they still have the '08 E93 M3 and the '10 S4.)

Wow, your leasing companies are giving away money, wait for me!

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by nrubenstein

Uh. Leasing was much more heavily subsidized during the E9x era than it is today. (Edit: At least in the US.)

FWIW, if someone is buying new, it usually makes sense to lease these cars even if you plan to keep it forever. A leased car means that you have an option on it. If it gets wrecked, or the car is a turd, just hand it back at the end. The slightly increased interest expense is minimal, and leases are more likely to have heavy subsidy applied.

My parents got burned badly by buying an SL55 AMG. It cost them around $30-40k extra buying vs. leasing that turd. Since then, they lease everything. If they like it, they keep it. (In this case, they still have the '08 E93 M3 and the '10 S4.)

Leasing in the US has taken off massively since 2009, a 91% increase between 2009 to 2017.

https://dealers.edmunds.com/static/a...t-jan-2017.pdf

Performance cars have traditionally had a higher lease / finance buyers, but that still points to a proportionally higher number of new M3's will be leased compared to the E9x generation. I'm sure financially it's smarter to lease, but to my mind a huge part of buying a used car is 'buying the seller'. Buying a lease return even CPO (BMW only offer 1 year warranties on CPO vehicles) you will have no idea how it was treated.

[amrazM]

That’s way over cbs scheduling of the time, more than likely it was done elsewhere.

[CHE///MIST3]

Well "seated-in" motor ! haha, nah, probably just performed elsewhere. Did you look inside of the service books in the trunks? Sometimes they write the first couple of services in there, if someone took the time to do so.

GM

[pbonsalb]

You own it so stop worrying. Change the rod bearings if you want. Even if the motor did go 23k miles, it could be 3-6L were added in that time — I use about 1L every 6k, sometimes more depending on how I drive. Could also be that someone forgot to input a service.

[nrubenstein]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Leasing in the US has taken off massively since 2009, a 91% increase between 2009 to 2017.

https://dealers.edmunds.com/static/a...t-jan-2017.pdf

Performance cars have traditionally had a higher lease / finance buyers, but that still points to a proportionally higher number of new M3's will be leased compared to the E9x generation. I'm sure financially it's smarter to lease, but to my mind a huge part of buying a used car is 'buying the seller'. Buying a lease return even CPO (BMW only offer 1 year warranties on CPO vehicles) you will have no idea how it was treated.

Leasing for BMWs in the US has been extremely popular since well before the E90. BMW enjoyed strong residual/resale values, and subsidized (near 0%) rates, so it was very favorable to lease since *at least* the beginning of the E46 era.

I don't know the exact break down, but I would be very surprised if the proportion of leases to buyers in BMW land has increased. Not also that you are referencing a period of dramatic increases in total car sales. The relevant question is what percentage of purchased cars were leased? This has *also* gone up significantly, but it's not as dramatic.

Also, I'm not convinced that leased cars are treated worse than bought ones.