Track forum general chit chat.

[PrimeBMW]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

What if you're under 3000 lbs?

Honestly I don't know because I've never run R7/A7 on a 3000lb car. I would have to ask the expert. But it will likely depend on the overall package/setup.

[SQ13]

I keep telling myself this foglight cover was a necessary evil bc the big void needed to be covered up.




Pretty good cupholder






Yesterday I replaced rear pads and rear rotors and flushed brakes. Gonna try to do oil change and tech inspection today.

[Ximian]

I used some IronX on the wheels when changing to track pads. The rear wheels were much worse than the front.

Then I forgot to torque correctly the rear right wheel (just "hand tight" with hand tools while car was still in the air) and took it for a drive on the highway. Only shook when coasting. Should I be replacing these wheel bolts now?

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by PrimeBMW

I won't have any problem getting the proper wire. It's more about the labor to drill out each but and bolt to do it properly. Plus I have a very good relationship with AR Motorsports.

i get playfully mocked for using titanium nuts/bolts here and there. its now become my thing i guess. lol

i have seen some beautiful titanium bolts made for safety wire, but they have limited sizes...
https://www.ti64.com/product-p/6859.htm

[SQ13]

Originally Posted by SQ13

Yesterday I replaced rear pads and rear rotors and flushed brakes. Gonna try to do oil change and tech inspection today.

Well, the brakes are no longer mushy, which is great! I plan to buy a StopTech C43 BBK in the near future, maybe if BW has a Black Friday/Christmas deal. I also plan to outsource the manual swap on my other E46 (~$3.5k) so no idea how I’ll justify those two expenses.

My extra blank rear rotors had rusted beyond repair, so I had to use my spare ZCP rotors. Hopefully the odds of them cracking are low since they’re floating.




I’m also glad I retorqued some hardware bc the rear bolts for the rear subframe had backed out a decent amount. I’ll pull them and apply loctite next time I do an inspection. Car is ready to go for MSRH on Sept 13. Have a few things left to do, but they’re not essential for driving.

[Ximian]

My wife asked why I didn't do the cheaper track event this year and I showed her this video (skip to about 45 seconds in) -

I don't know how any group gets away with not having instructors for novices.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Ximian

I don't know how any group gets away with not having instructors for novices.

From what I hear, it is getting difficult to find instructors in some areas. People simply do not want to take the risk of getting into a car at speed with someone inexperienced.

Chicago SCCA had to severely dial back their PDX events because they just didn't have enough instructors. I believe they had to resort to using advanced drivers as "coaches" as a stop-gap for some events.

[Chris_PDX]

Originally Posted by dparm

From what I hear, it is getting difficult to find instructors in some areas. People simply do not want to take the risk of getting into a car at speed with someone inexperienced.

Chicago SCCA had to severely dial back their PDX events because they just didn't have enough instructors. I believe they had to resort to using advanced drivers as "coaches" as a stop-gap for some events.

Lots of reasons for this. I can speak to what I hear in my instructor circle (and some instructor groups on FB I'm in):

* The average age of track/HPDE/racing instructors is getting a lot higher than the average age of HPDE attendees. We see that specifically in one of our local clubs, so they are retiring or stepping away from coaching

* Some instructors are getting turned off at the idea of sitting right seat in a street car that's capable of the speeds modern cars are with a complete novice. Obviously they are safer than ever, but it's still a worry.

* Clubs that force instructors to pay to attend. There's still a lot out there that do. Which is silly. Our local BMW club, instructors still pay for sitting with novices but we get a full day of sessions alongside the "regular" groups, and it's heavily, heavily discounted. Other clubs, we don't pay to be there. In the case of HOD, they pay the instructors.

I do it because I enjoy it, but it does add some additional stress, a ton more time, etc. to the hobby. And every time I get a novice in something like a GT500 or a V10 R8, etc. I get a bit apprehensive and have "the talk" regarding speeds.

[dparm]

https://www.motoroso.com/forgeline/G...t-Road-Atlanta


Still held pressure and finished the race. What the hell did this guy hit? LOL

[Bartledoo]

Resurrecting the DSC vs no DSC conversation... I'll start by saying that I've always looked up to drivers who can wring a car out on track with no driver aids, and I had been using Euro MDM with the modded Wert value since I started tracking this year, as a safety net, with the plan to eventually go DSC off. All the while it was hanging over my head, making me wonder if I was actually learning how to drive the car and progressing or if the car was just driving for me. I knew that continuing to use the nannies was counterproductive to my goals in following this passion, but I became afraid that I'd explode into a fireball if I turned off the nannies completely, or worse...embarass myself.

Well I'm relieved to say that turning off the nannies was awesome, and if you are closely paying attention to what the car is telling you when running MDM then you shouldn't have a problem eventually turning it all off. I believe that the loosest version of MDM can be helpful for getting accustomed to the speed your car can carry on track, and is pretty satisfying until you begin to plateau in pace. Then the real driving experience begins with DSC off...

[slicer]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Resurrecting the DSC vs no DSC conversation... I'll start by saying that I've always looked up to drivers who can wring a car out on track with no driver aids, and I had been using Euro MDM with the modded Wert value since I started tracking this year, as a safety net, with the plan to eventually go DSC off. All the while it was hanging over my head, making me wonder if I was actually learning how to drive the car and progressing or if the car was just driving for me. I knew that continuing to use the nannies was counterproductive to my goals in following this passion, but I became afraid that I'd explode into a fireball if I turned off the nannies completely, or worse...embarass myself.

Well I'm relieved to say that turning off the nannies was awesome, and if you are closely paying attention to what the car is telling you when running MDM then you shouldn't have a problem eventually turning it all off. I believe that the loosest version of MDM can be helpful for getting accustomed to the speed your car can carry on track, and is pretty satisfying until you begin to plateau in pace. Then the real driving experience begins with DSC off...

Agreed. The reality is that our cars have very neutral and controllable handling characteristics. DSC off can be intimidating but once you dive in it's more manageable than you might think.

[PrimeBMW]

Originally Posted by Chris_PDX

Lots of reasons for this. I can speak to what I hear in my instructor circle (and some instructor groups on FB I'm in):

* The average age of track/HPDE/racing instructors is getting a lot higher than the average age of HPDE attendees. We see that specifically in one of our local clubs, so they are retiring or stepping away from coaching

* Some instructors are getting turned off at the idea of sitting right seat in a street car that's capable of the speeds modern cars are with a complete novice. Obviously they are safer than ever, but it's still a worry.

* Clubs that force instructors to pay to attend. There's still a lot out there that do. Which is silly. Our local BMW club, instructors still pay for sitting with novices but we get a full day of sessions alongside the "regular" groups, and it's heavily, heavily discounted. Other clubs, we don't pay to be there. In the case of HOD, they pay the instructors.

I do it because I enjoy it, but it does add some additional stress, a ton more time, etc. to the hobby. And every time I get a novice in something like a GT500 or a V10 R8, etc. I get a bit apprehensive and have "the talk" regarding speeds.

I was an instructor for one season. I did it so that I could "give back/support" our hobby. I was new and always seemed to get the sketchy cars and drivers. (The veteran instructors knew to avoid them). So I have a few "stories". I didn't enjoy instructing so retired. But I am typically different than most people. I think most enjoy the process like you Chris.

[PrimeBMW]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Resurrecting the DSC vs no DSC conversation... I'll start by saying that I've always looked up to drivers who can wring a car out on track with no driver aids, and I had been using Euro MDM with the modded Wert value since I started tracking this year, as a safety net, with the plan to eventually go DSC off. All the while it was hanging over my head, making me wonder if I was actually learning how to drive the car and progressing or if the car was just driving for me. I knew that continuing to use the nannies was counterproductive to my goals in following this passion, but I became afraid that I'd explode into a fireball if I turned off the nannies completely, or worse...embarass myself.

Well I'm relieved to say that turning off the nannies was awesome, and if you are closely paying attention to what the car is telling you when running MDM then you shouldn't have a problem eventually turning it all off. I believe that the loosest version of MDM can be helpful for getting accustomed to the speed your car can carry on track, and is pretty satisfying until you begin to plateau in pace. Then the real driving experience begins with DSC off...

This. I am confused why more people don't have this reaction/experience when turning off MDM or DSC.

[roastbeef]

i'm looking forward to going out on track naked, but it won't be until i'm trailering. a bent control arm from a simple off could really suck if i'm a couple hundred miles away from home.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by PrimeBMW

This. I am confused why more people don't have this reaction/experience when turning off MDM or DSC.

I personally agree but can somewhat understand why it might not happen like that. The whole DSC off = death thing really seems to be hammered home in a lot of places (not necessarily here). Between that negative predisposition & possibly some bad habits from extended time with traction control I could see where it might not lend itself to being the most comfortable experience for someone.

Originally Posted by roastbeef

i'm looking forward to going out on track naked, but it won't be until i'm trailering. a bent control arm from a simple off could really suck if i'm a couple hundred miles away from home.

Very understandable. Knowing that unless things really go bad - getting home at the end of the day will not be an issue is big. Trailering definitely increases the comfort zone there. Keeping somewhat of a safety net can sure make that 200 mile trip home easier without a trailer.

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by Chris_PDX

* Clubs that force instructors to pay to attend. There's still a lot out there that do. Which is silly. Our local BMW club, instructors still pay for sitting with novices but we get a full day of sessions alongside the "regular" groups, and it's heavily, heavily discounted. Other clubs, we don't pay to be there. In the case of HOD, they pay the instructors.

They make instructors pay where you are?? That's crazy to me. All the ones around here instructors are free, and they offset it by charging the Novices a little bit extra. It's not that difficult of a concept, and gets instructors out there. Instructors work hard ALL day to help novices like me and with very few breaks. They should be at bare minimum compensated with free driving opportunities.

[Chris_PDX]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

They make instructors pay where you are?? That's crazy to me. All the ones around here instructors are free, and they offset it by charging the Novices a little bit extra. It's not that difficult of a concept, and gets instructors out there. Instructors work hard ALL day to help novices like me and with very few breaks. They should be at bare minimum compensated with free driving opportunities.

The only one that does is our local BMW club (not affiliated with BMW CCA... politics. BMWCCA doesn't run here). We pay $70 for the day and Instructors get their own sessions (4 x 20 mins), and we can generally go run in any group we want as well if it's not busy. We also only have 1 student for the day, and these days are billed as a more relaxed "instructor will keep you safe day" than a serious school. So it's a worthy trade-off.

Our other local clubs (HOD, Cascade Sports Car Club) that are more serious on the coaching/instructing part with multiple students, we don't pay and in the case of CSCC, we get credits to use for HPDE days for ourselves.

[Adrian g.]

Anyone trim their DCT felt cover, as seen on this Schirmer track car? I'm currently running the Slon DCT pan and I'm wondering if doing this would be beneficial..

[Ximian]

BMW (CCA) and Audi (CNA) groups here charge instructors but with a decent discount. My last event, the instructor told me he paid to only have one student instead of the usual two. I don't think they get discounts on lodging which is a major cost.

We only have one event per group and they're usually not even breaking even. It's about $350 for the weekend event and the hotels are usually $300-400 per weekend. Hotels are a must as the track is at least 140 miles away for most people. With gas and everything else, you're still spending nearly $1000 for the event.

Not sure how it compares cost-wise to the smaller tracks where all of you go, but this is fairly expensive for a lot of people who would be interested in attending an HPDE. So each event consists of the same crowd and a couple of people who don't come back to the following events.

With this scenario, the only thing left for organizers to stay afloat with HPDE events is to also charge instructors. At least they get plenty of track time (4/5 sessions per day) but most of them do it anyway just because they really like instructing and coaching.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by Adrian g.

Anyone trim their DCT felt cover, as seen on this Schirmer track car? I'm currently running the Slon DCT pan and I'm wondering if doing this would be beneficial..

I haven't done it with my Slon pan. I just don't want it being fully exposed to constant high speed dust, dirt and rocks. The extra cooling could be nice, but there's a lot of crap flying around under the car.

As it is, my pan took a direct hit.....don't know how, where or when it happened. Some of the fins got damaged, but the pan held up fine. I'm guessing it was a berm but I have no idea. I know the felt can't protect against larger strikes, but it does keep random high-speed dirt off.

[kyippee]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Resurrecting the DSC vs no DSC conversation... I'll start by saying that I've always looked up to drivers who can wring a car out on track with no driver aids, and I had been using Euro MDM with the modded Wert value since I started tracking this year, as a safety net, with the plan to eventually go DSC off. All the while it was hanging over my head, making me wonder if I was actually learning how to drive the car and progressing or if the car was just driving for me. I knew that continuing to use the nannies was counterproductive to my goals in following this passion, but I became afraid that I'd explode into a fireball if I turned off the nannies completely, or worse...embarass myself.

Well I'm relieved to say that turning off the nannies was awesome, and if you are closely paying attention to what the car is telling you when running MDM then you shouldn't have a problem eventually turning it all off. I believe that the loosest version of MDM can be helpful for getting accustomed to the speed your car can carry on track, and is pretty satisfying until you begin to plateau in pace. Then the real driving experience begins with DSC off...

Yup. Very fair. I have also gone/tried from Euro MDM to DSC fully off. If I drive reasonably, such as at 7-8/10ths, the car is very very mangeable and I am a few seconds slower than my PBs.

If I push for 9-9.5/10ths and get sloppy, with an occasional 10.5/10ths minor spin or excessive loss of grip. I think it just comes down to building more comfort at the limit! Euro MDM definitely lets us just chuck in the car in with more recklessness

[slicer]

Originally Posted by Adrian g.

Anyone trim their DCT felt cover, as seen on this Schirmer track car? I'm currently running the Slon DCT pan and I'm wondering if doing this would be beneficial..

No but damn that seems like a good idea for cooling.