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      05-28-2017, 07:11 AM   #45
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Brake fluid change and final product all installed. Just needs a test drive.
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      05-30-2017, 08:59 AM   #46
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beautiful! Congratulations!!!
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      05-31-2017, 07:27 PM   #47
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100 mile street report: Brakes are nice. No noise, no rattle, no issues. Now you might expect me to report some sort of "amazing" brake feel, but honestly, I think you would be hard pressed to distinguish from a good condition stock set up. The PFC pads have a bit less initial bite than stock BMW pads, though I'm wondering if perhaps it's the shift to slightly more rearward brake bias.

PFC says brake bias is shifted rearward even if stock rear calipers retained or if you switch to the Z-45 rear system (I'm still stock on the rear calipers). Otherwise not too much to report, they work fine in non-track usage and feel very close to stock. Will update with track report at the latest late July (Charlotte Motor Speedway) but hoping I can find a one day event in June.
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      06-02-2017, 04:40 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorH View Post
100 mile street report: Brakes are nice. No noise, no rattle, no issues. Now you might expect me to report some sort of "amazing" brake feel, but honestly, I think you would be hard pressed to distinguish from a good condition stock set up. The PFC pads have a bit less initial bite than stock BMW pads, though I'm wondering if perhaps it's the shift to slightly more rearward brake bias.

PFC says brake bias is shifted rearward even if stock rear calipers retained or if you switch to the Z-45 rear system (I'm still stock on the rear calipers). Otherwise not too much to report, they work fine in non-track usage and feel very close to stock. Will update with track report at the latest late July (Charlotte Motor Speedway) but hoping I can find a one day event in June.
As you said, I was really hoping a big improvement over the stock on the street too, since I think the stock brake is a bit too soft...

Looks like it is not the case, at least at this moment. Looking forward to your update.
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      06-02-2017, 05:45 PM   #49
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100 mile street report: Brakes are nice. No noise, no rattle, no issues. Now you might expect me to report some sort of "amazing" brake feel, but honestly, I think you would be hard pressed to distinguish from a good condition stock set up. The PFC pads have a bit less initial bite than stock BMW pads, though I'm wondering if perhaps it's the shift to slightly more rearward brake bias.

The stock pads do not have a very linear feel, in my opinion. I had a similar first impression when I put my StopTech kit on: it felt like I had to get further into the brake pedal travel than before, but this has paid dividends at the track.
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      06-02-2017, 08:14 PM   #50
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The stock pads do not have a very linear feel, in my opinion. I had a similar first impression when I put my StopTech kit on: it felt like I had to get further into the brake pedal travel than before, but this has paid dividends at the track.
I think that's the adjustment you have to get used to. Probably most stock cars are set up to have big initial bite and then level off. My neighbors GT350 is exactly the same, though much worse, super grabby on initial brake application and then is tolerable after that.

I think perhaps the aftermarket system are just more linear without the initial grab. I'm used to it now and there's nothing wrong with it. It's just different than probably all OEMs set up their stock brake systems.
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      07-25-2017, 06:23 PM   #51
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Track pads are on, PFC 11s in front and what's left of my Endless rear track pads (rear is still stock caliper).

Scheduled for Charlotte Motor Speedway "Roval" this coming Saturday. I was thinking the back straight would have a chicane to slow the cars down but we are going to run off the banked curve through the full back straight to next banked turn (they call it turn 12). Should be interesting. They've told us that we will see speeds "you've never seen in your car before." I think they might be right.
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      07-30-2017, 06:52 PM   #52
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TRACK REPORT:

First track use of the Z-54 front brake system since installation. Was at Charlotte Motor Speedway. It's not actually a very brake heavy track and the potential speeds that were anticipated were more hype than reality. Coming out of the infield portion of the track you could go flat out through NASCAR turns 1 and 2, but the back straight isn't really all that long and in my car that meant about 135-138 on the speedo entering NASCAR turn 3. I didn't have the nerve to run flat out through that turn but it might be possible, so I would lift and take about 10 mph off and then roll in the throttle once the apex was visible.

The only "heavy braking" was from the front straight (which has a kink in it) to the infield turn one. So, the brakes. Fantastic. Can't say anything about fade resistance as I wouldn't expect the stock system with track pads to have any fade either, What's interesting is that you get a lot more braking force with less pedal effort than the stock system. The system is super linear and very progressive. The initial bite is really good and super easy to modulate. The pedal feel is also very consistent lap after lap, but we were only running 20 minute sessions so they really didn't have to work very hard, With relatively new tires it's easy to out brake most of the other cars out there but that's probably more a product of the driver than anything else since there were plenty of track only vehicles in each session. Can't really say anything bad about the system, super consistent, very confidence inspiring and no issues at all.

Looking at the pad wear after the track event I'd say for that one day I used about an 1/8" of pad material based on how far the pistons sticking out (hardly at all). I'll leave the track pads in for a week of street driving to scrub the track pad layer off, then will switch to the street pads again (super easy). Atlanta Motorsports Park next end of August.
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      07-30-2017, 09:54 PM   #53
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You will absolutely love the brakes. No matter what tire I'm running I basically use my big toe for the braking.
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      08-20-2017, 03:49 PM   #54
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Street update: I've got a couple thousand miles on the system now, no issues, no rattles no problems.

One thing that I didn't like and BW and PFC both said it was no big deal but the rotor to caliper distance comparing outboard vs inboard was different by .024" on the driver's side and .018" on the passenger side. I ordered some .010 Stainless shim stock and fabricated some shims to put between the caliper mounting bracket and the upright. Finished and fabbed those today. Didn't appreciate how hard and difficult to drill good quality SS is even though it's only .010" thick.

Caliper is now more closely centered. .008" difference between inboard and outboard now on the driver's side and .014" for the same measurements on the passenger side (not really sure why that one didn't change as much as I expected but it was slightly less off center than the driver's side to start). I'm sure there's some measurement error too as it's hard to get exact measurements.

Pictures of the shims and installation below. Track pads loaded again. Will report back on track use #2 at the end of next weekend. Heading to Atlanta Motorsports Park.
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      08-25-2017, 07:22 PM   #55
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Thanks for the continued updates, glad you're liking the PFC system. We love to hear what kinds of pads people prefer for their street and track work, so thank you for providing your perspective! What Endless compound were you running in the rear, if you don't mind me asking? As you mentioned, the different temperature and friction profiles of the two compounds could be messing with your brake bias.

As for the adapter, I am surprised they left the rotor off center from the caliper. It may look perfect in SolidWorks, but balancing the rotor + caliper offset is one of only a few dimensions we have left to check when we test fit each of our kits, and it there's more than 0.5mm difference (0.020") we'll redesign and FEA test the adapter, and redo the test fit. Though that difference seemed minor enough, your shims will definitely prevent any 'worst case' situations (ie losing pressure due to overextended pistons).
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      08-26-2017, 09:44 PM   #56
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The rear pads are Endless MX-72s. Pretty durable and brake bias seems to be okay. I'll probably just run PFC-11s in the rear too once these are worn out.

Track update #2
Just back from Atlanta Motorsports Park, one day event with Just Track it. Pretty fun, but if I had to choose among my favorite "short tracks" I would list them (at least the ones I've run) as; 1) Barber; 2) MidOhio; 3) AMP; 4) CMP, the last two are much better for lightweight momentum cars in my opinion.
Two things you notice at these tight technical tracks is how heavy our cars are and if you're not careful how hard the front tires have to work. this is one place where -4.0 camber would be good, minus 2.5 is just not enough up front.

The brakes are still excellent the heaviest braking by far is from the front straight to turn 1 and have never seen so much brake dust, not just the wheels but on the front tire sidewalls too. Nonetheless, totally consistent with no fade and consistent feel, lap after lap.
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      08-28-2017, 01:46 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorH View Post
The rear pads are Endless MX-72s. Pretty durable and brake bias seems to be okay. I'll probably just run PFC-11s in the rear too once these are worn out.
Nice, MX72's are some of our favorite pads here at the office. Not to sound too much like a salesperson, but we actually used the MX72's as the benchmark pad for our SPP 3.0 street / track hybrid pads, but as the description suggests, they are definitely more of a hybrid pad vs the PFC-11's. Have the PFC-11's give you any problems on the street?

Last edited by SpartaEvolution; 08-28-2017 at 07:52 PM.. Reason: typo
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      08-28-2017, 07:04 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by SpartaEvolution View Post
Nice, MX72's are some of our favorite pads here at the office. Not to sound too much like a salesperson, but we actually used the MX72's as the benchmark pad for our SPP 2.0 street / track hybrid pads, but as the description suggests, they are definitely more of a hybrid pad vs the PFC-11's. Have the PFC-11's give you any problems on the street?
They are a really nice pad and they are quiet too. I swap out the PFC-11s after each track event. Drove to work with them still in today and they squeal as much or more than Pagid RS19s or any other track pad I've run. Interestingly, when you back up and brake the squealing is tremendously loud. Really totally unsuitable for the street, they they seem to work just fine when cold though. Swapping back to PFC z-rated street pad tonight.

Last edited by VictorH; 08-28-2017 at 07:43 PM..
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      08-29-2017, 11:29 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorH View Post
They are a really nice pad and they are quiet too. I swap out the PFC-11s after each track event. Drove to work with them still in today and they squeal as much or more than Pagid RS19s or any other track pad I've run. Interestingly, when you back up and brake the squealing is tremendously loud. Really totally unsuitable for the street, they they seem to work just fine when cold though. Swapping back to PFC z-rated street pad tonight.

Yeah, I would expect the 11s to be unbearable. Supposedly the 08s are tolerable on the street but it can vary by vehicle/braking system.

Re-bedding can help but these are designed to be run with heat in them.
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      08-29-2017, 01:15 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorH View Post
They are a really nice pad and they are quiet too. I swap out the PFC-11s after each track event. Drove to work with them still in today and they squeal as much or more than Pagid RS19s or any other track pad I've run. Interestingly, when you back up and brake the squealing is tremendously loud. Really totally unsuitable for the street, they they seem to work just fine when cold though. Swapping back to PFC z-rated street pad tonight.
That's odd. My Z pads have been in their boxes since the beginning of the year. I've been driving with the PFC11 which strangely I find quieter than the PFC12 (similar pad to the PFC08), almost 100% quiet.
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      08-29-2017, 01:52 PM   #61
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That's odd. My Z pads have been in their boxes since the beginning of the year. I've been driving with the PFC11 which strangely I find quieter than the PFC12 (similar pad to the PFC08), almost 100% quiet.
It might depend on what we are talking about. There is absolutely no brake noise above about 25 mph or higher. But below that speed and particularly at less than 10 mph it squeals quite a lot and it's pretty loud. My friend can hear it clearly in his car with closed windows as I pull alongside at a stop light.
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      08-29-2017, 04:29 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorH View Post
It might depend on what we are talking about. There is absolutely no brake noise above about 25 mph or higher. But below that speed and particularly at less than 10 mph it squeals quite a lot and it's pretty loud. My friend can hear it clearly in his car with closed windows as I pull alongside at a stop light.
Agree on the no brake noise above 25mph, but I use mine occasionally for daily driving duties and it's either 100% quiet or 95% quiet.

Nothing like the old days in my E46M with PFC08 where I sounded like a garbage truck
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      09-04-2017, 09:57 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorH View Post
I think that's the adjustment you have to get used to. Probably most stock cars are set up to have big initial bite and then level off. My neighbors GT350 is exactly the same, though much worse, super grabby on initial brake application and then is tolerable after that.

I think perhaps the aftermarket system are just more linear without the initial grab. I'm used to it now and there's nothing wrong with it. It's just different than probably all OEMs set up their stock brake systems.
PFC systems are definitely linear. However, I've found PFC Z-rated pads require a decent amount of heat (similar to a race pad but less heat) before they start to bite. I had Carbotech make a set of custom 1521 (street) compound pads for the Z31 caliper. Brake response is still linear but the CT pads have much better initial bite.
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      09-04-2017, 05:17 PM   #64
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I was ready to pull the trigger on the PFC and they read about pad noise. They seem to be awesome brakes but is a no go at this time. I'll go with some StopTech Trophy's.
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      09-04-2017, 05:43 PM   #65
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I was ready to pull the trigger on the PFC and they read about pad noise. They seem to be awesome brakes but is a no go at this time. I'll go with some StopTech Trophy's.
What pad noise? PFC brake kits with street pads are quiet. PFC calipers and rotors are far superior to ST Trophy calipers and rotors.
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      09-05-2017, 01:41 PM   #66
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What pad noise? PFC brake kits with street pads are quiet. PFC calipers and rotors are far superior to ST Trophy calipers and rotors.
We have not tested both of these kits, so I'm not trying to argue, but I am curious how you came to this conclusion. According to this German magazine test from December 2014, the PFC kit doesn't even beat the StopTech ST60, let alone the Trophy kit.
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