Official: no M3 CSL to be produced

[MI6]

I suppose it is possible that BMW might want to play off the CSL for now to keep interest in the M3 high but...............I am beginning to follow the thought that Southlight and others have expressed- that there will be no E92 CSL.....

I think it comes down to economics for BMW. IMHO the E92 has not quite had the same impact that the E46 did when it came out in 01'. We are simply in different times and it is very possible that Munich feels there is not a strong enough of a market(there is a market just not strong enough) in Europe for the CSL.

I for one would love to see one built but....my gut is leaning towards the belief that there will not be one. I remember hearing time and time again that there would be an M6 CSL and yet there still is not- even though fairly credible sources on this sight (Scott26) have mentioned it will happen.

With todays rapidly changing automotive climate who really knows what BMW "M" really has up their sleeve............we shall see..........

[rzm3]

i agree with south.

1) maybe BMW M FI might not be so bad... let's wait and see. from the N54, which has virtually no lag, a FI M engine might surprize you. new technologies come out everyday, perhaps FI has an impression of being laggy and not sporty and non-M, but with new development, things will change!

2) perhaps a higher sales volume will give M GmbH more R&D resources for a better future car?

comeon guys, don't be so pessimistic and judgmental... let have faith in our favorite car company enjoy your M now and let's just wait and see what happens. if i remember correctly when M decided to put a V8 in the E9X, many were skeptical. But look at where we are today -- V8 E9X FORUM!

[chicagobimmerboy]

if the CSL does not come out I will ....

[The CSL]

Ms best bet would be to tweak the X5/6 and then give a nod to their involvement by badging it the X5/X6 Individual.

[footie]

The X6 is already ahead of the curve compared to the competition so anything that M-Divison do will extend the gap even more. The only area where the current models have any problems in competing in outright performance against the likes of the ML63 and Cayenne Turbo, oh yeah and the soon the be launched Q7v12TDI, if they can tweak the X6-50i engine or replace it with something better and compete on their level then BMW will be on to a winner.

P.S.

The CSL is a died duck and they should look to areas where they can promo the brand and set new standard, the SUV is one area and the supercar market is another. It's the two extreme.

[chicagobimmerboy]

what happend to being independant and making the benchmark, not following it?????

[Hans Delbruck]

Sorry I didn't wade through all the posts, but "I read" (yes I really did) that there WILL be an M3 CSL, it just will not come to North America. I believe I read that in Roundel.

What BMW killed was the M6 CSL, saying there was no market for it.

I think someone got their wires crossed.

M3 CSL = YES, but not in NA
M6 CSL = NO GO

[Hammerwerfer]

I am saddened by this news. I've owned some "real" M3s, the E30, Sport Evo, M3GT etc. and driven every variety on the Nordschleife.

The latest iteration is a huge step in the wrong direction from the CSL, which although brilliant was by no means perfect.

I saw what could well be and MX6 mule yesterday. Ugh!

[footie]

Originally Posted by Hammerwerfer

I am saddened by this news. I've owned some "real" M3s, the E30, Sport Evo, M3GT etc. and driven every variety on the Nordschleife.

The latest iteration is a huge step in the wrong direction from the CSL, which although brilliant was by no means perfect.

I saw what could well be and MX6 mule yesterday. Ugh!

Tell me which M3 would you reckon was the best M3 to date?

[hobsta]

I sure hope that the ideas of a new CSL will develope and at least provide the world with real reasons why they will or will not develop into a concept for the e92.

And as for the X series. I recall the whole fad of the M -enhanced- X5 if you will, with all the pluses that can possibly be done, minus the badge. That was as far as I can see it going. No reason to really badge up the car unless its what it is. (motorsport)

From 2007, just something I remember looking at:
http://paultan.org/archives/2007/06/...5-48i-m-sport/

///M POWER! = MOTORSPORT POWER

[Mickb]

Originally Posted by footie

Tell me which M3 would you reckon was the best M3 to date?

I know mags like Evo would always pick the E30 as the best, but IMO there is no doubt whatsoever that the E46 CSL is the best M3 ever. A semi practical 5 seater, with brilliant out of the box handling, a soundtrack up there with the best of Ferrari, and performance to go with it, I think it could be the best car BMW have ever built.

Sadly badge snobbery meant they depreciated like a GM truck does now; something I could never understand given that they could run within a few seconds of a GT3 on the ring despite being 30% cheaper.

Still its great for enthusiasts who can now get an unbelieveable car for not much money.

For my own part, I think that if the news of the cancellation of the CSL and the introduction of the MX6/MX5 or whatever is proven to be true, this will be marked as the turning point for the M-division. The fact you can make a 2-ton SUV handle somewhat respectably might be an engineering achievement, but it doesn’t mean you should.

I think not making a CSL will prove to be bad business for BMW in the long run as the benefits of a halo model while hard to quantify are important for the brand.

[ACE_M3]

Originally Posted by Big Windy

Maybe I am not being clear enough. Businesses do exist to make money...that is the only way that they can remain a business. But that is not their sole purpose. Many people start businesses for personal reasons (charity, ego, etc). Example: Lamborghini.


A little snippet: Founded by Ferruccio Lamborghini, Lamborghini started out as a tractor building company in the Italian village of Sant'Agata Bolognese. However, Ferruccio Lamborghini's priorities changed when he went to meet Enzo Ferrari at the Ferrari factory to complain about the quality of the clutch in his Ferrari 250.[2] An infuriated Enzo Ferrari sent him away telling him to go drive his tractors because he was not able to drive cars. Lamborghini went back to his factory to have the Ferrari's clutch dismantled and found that the clutch in the Ferrari was made by the same manufacturer who supplied the clutches used in Lamborghini tractors. Lamborghini installed a stronger clutch from his factory's warehouse into his Ferrari and solved the clutch failure.

Furious with Enzo Ferrari's arrogant and aloof manner, Ferruccio Lamborghini promised himself he would never own another Ferrari, and would beat Ferrari at his own game, by creating a superior sports car of his own.
/wiki

While Lamborghini's priorities might have changed over time to become more focused on making money, the original intent and purpose of the business was pride and ego. Ferruccio wanted to deliver a product that was better than his competitor.

So, I guess that when I think of ///M, I think of it in a similar light to Lamborghini. It was founded to deliver the elite sport vehicles of BMWs lineup. An X5 or X6 doesn't belong in the ///M garage, let BMW do the tweaky. ///M should stick to its roots.

That's just me though...

Your Lamborghini example disproves your own point. Lamborghini may have been founded without the sole intention of making money but eventually Audi thought they could squeeze some more profit out of the brand and it was sold to Audi for USD110mln. Is that what you want to happen to ///M? BMW AG exists to maximise shareholder value, that's a fact.

[Big Windy]

Originally Posted by ACE_M3

Your Lamborghini example disproves your own point. Lamborghini may have been founded without the sole intention of making money but eventually Audi thought they could squeeze some more profit out of the brand and it was sold to Audi for USD110mln. Is that what you want to happen to ///M? BMW AG exists to maximise shareholder value, that's a fact.

You're a bit late in the thread, but I don't feel that the example disproves my point. I didn't say anything about Audi when I talked about the underlying reasons of why Lamborghini was founded. Nor did I ever say that the underlying reasons of why a company operates are not prone to change over time. The audi scenario that you bring up is irrelevant to how and why Lamborghini was founded.

BMW AG doesn't exist to maximize shareholder value. But if that is what you want to believe, I'd rather talk about why there is no CSL or....

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by BMW335icDDS

I stated on my blog long ago that M no longer stands for motorsport to BMW. Having a M X5 and X6 is a joke as they will never be true motorsport cars. However, not having a M3 CSL is the right thing to do. BMW can't even sell the regular overpriced M3's. Who is dumb enough to spend even more on a CSL version? BMW can't find enough idiots to buy their M3's under MSRP.

Thank god for this post-----see guys, I'm not the biggest jackass on these forums.....

[e46e92love]

Originally Posted by southlight

lol, nice comparison. I don't think building an ///M X6 is like BMW jumping off a bridge. Still don't see the problem of such a car, we're talking about a SAV handling and driving just as good as the current E60 M5 (personal assumption), so it's on par with an M5 in most regards. Following that assumption the whole difference between an M5 and an ///M X6 is that one is done for more than 20 years and hereby has been part of the M history whereas the other hasn't beeen built ever before. IMO the line drawing between a worthy M car and an unworthy M car is arbitrary. BMW might have decided to move that line some inches. Not less, but not more also. Again, it's not essential for M losing their way or not. Next gen M3, Z4 M and possible CSL versions or super cars are.


Best regards, south

Fair point South, very fair point.

[southlight]

"Latest" news published by CAR magazine:
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Secret-...ls-E92-M3-CSL/


Best regards, south

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by footie

Tell me which M3 would you reckon was the best M3 to date?

If someone answers anything other than M3 E30
they should be banned from this forum
that's heresy
i know
because i have had the pleasure of owning one
soon will also own an E92
if i can sell my Audi A5
(serves me right for buying an Audi, never hated a car i owned so much)

[keanu1]

Originally Posted by kmarei

If someone answers anything other than M3 E30
they should be banned from this forum
that's heresy
i know
because i have had the pleasure of owning one
soon will also own an E92
if i can sell my Audi A5
(serves me right for buying an Audi, never hated a car i owned so much)

why you hate it so much?!?!

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by southlight

"Latest" news published by CAR magazine:
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Secret-...ls-E92-M3-CSL/


Best regards, south

"CAR’s artist’s impression reveals how the rawest M3 of all was scheduled to look"



"If aliens landed on earth today, we can confirm that this is what they'd look like. Also, here is a picture of what the inside of a black hole looks like."

[synclastica_86]

[QUOTE=MI6;3070727]German car mag Auto-motor-und-sport interviewed Ludwig Willisch from BMW's M GmbH today and he is stating there will be NO M3 CSL as there is no market for it.

QUOTE]

No market my ass. Take any //M, if you production amount is small enough, people will snatch it up like fat kids in a candy buffet. Recall the last CSL? Even at the sell-your-life price that they demand they had no problem selling every last one of it. Most of us didn't even get a chance even if we had the funds. This might be just PR speak, I think there might be a surprise CSL just around the corner.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by synclastica_86

Recall the last CSL? Even at the sell-your-life price that they demand they had no problem selling every last one of it. Most of us didn't even get a chance even if we had the funds. This might be just PR speak, I think there might be a surprise CSL just around the corner.

The E46 CSL wasn't available in the US and didn't sell that good where it was.


Best regards, south

[Sticky]

Insufficient demand? I will buy one.

Maybe they would sell well if they were offered in the US? Look at how the GT3 RS was gobbled up after not being offered in 996 trim in the US.