EflexFuel kit

[Doc Oc]

Anyone over here tried the eflexfuel kit yet? Was going to go with an afd kit but found this setup mentioned on mbworld and gave it a shot. Was really surprised at the quality. Seems to do everything any other kit does, even comes with a monitoring app. Anyone considering converting to flexfuel may want to take a look at this considering it's a third the price of some of the other ones.

www.eflexfuel.com

[dpaul]

S65 engine was not on their compatibility list

However, I emailed them about it - here's the reply:

"Hello,

Thank you for your inquiry. eFlexFuel is compatible with this engine. However, the original fuel pump may not develop enough flow for pure E85.

Does the car have the original pump? The only way of course to know this for sure is to test it. And if the the flow (when asking full power with pure ethanol) is not adequate, you can change a little bit bigger E85 rated pump.

If you have nay further questions, we are happy to answer. Order can easily be made from here: https://eflexfuel.com/Store/Form

We will automatically include all necessary accessories for easy installation and the car-specific connectors etc. Shipping to US takes about 3 days and is free of charge."

[maristgrad09]

Hmm very interesting. Subscribed

[dpaul]

I'm confused about the differences between this kit and the AFD kit which is almost 3X more expensive. More specifically, I'm confused about why AFD claims a 25whp boost in performance while eflexfuel make no claims about performance at all.

It seems clear that the eflexfuel device intercepts the signals from the DME to the injectors and increases the open time for each injector by an amount related to the % ethanol in the fuel. As far as I can tell, the AFD device does the same. So why does AFD they claim a performance increase?

If I'm thinking about it correctly, a performance increase can only result from DME adaptation to the higher octane fuel so that it delivers the maximum timing advance allowed. If you are already using gasoline with a high enough octane so that you are achieving the most advanced ignition timing, how do you get any increase in power output?

Am I missing something?

[///M3Fresh]

Originally Posted by dpaul

I'm confused about the differences between this kit and the AFD kit which is almost 3X more expensive. More specifically, I'm confused about why AFD claims a 25whp boost in performance while eflexfuel make no claims about performance at all.

It seems clear that the eflexfuel device intercepts the signals from the DME to the injectors and increases the open time for each injector by an amount related to the % ethanol in the fuel. As far as I can tell, the AFD device does the same. So why does AFD they claim a performance increase?

If I'm thinking about it correctly, a performance increase can only result from DME adaptation to the higher octane fuel so that it delivers the maximum timing advance allowed. If you are already using gasoline with a high enough octane so that you are achieving the most advanced ignition timing, how do you get any increase in power output?

Am I missing something?

To add, if youre getting a E85 tune from any of our vendors, and use this kit what are the outcomes? Without physically loading a E85 or 91/93 oct or any mix there of tune, this kit seems pointless unless the tuner offers additional hardware to tie in this kit so the maps can switch on the fly from the ethanol sensor?

[JsL]

My guess would be AFD dyno'd their application and tailored it to the M3.

eFlexfuel probably has a generic e85 compensation algorithm for every vehicle and sells a kit that covers all 4 cylinder cars, 6 cylinder cars, 8 cylinder cars etc. The only difference is number of connector based on # of cylinders of the engine, and injector connector type.

FYI that it seems most flex fuel kits use a Delphi SE1002 or GM 13577429 sensor. Like the one below.

https://paceperformance.com/i-108014...ensor-e85.html

[dpaul]

Originally Posted by JsL

My guess would be AFD dyno'd their application and tailored it to the M3.

eFlexfuel probably has a generic e85 compensation algorithm for every vehicle and sells a kit that covers all 4 cylinder cars, 6 cylinder cars, 8 cylinder cars etc. The only difference is number of connector based on # of cylinders of the engine, and injector connector type.

FYI that it seems most flex fuel kits use a Delphi SE1002 or GM 13577429 sensor. Like the one below.

https://paceperformance.com/i-108014...ensor-e85.html

I don't understand how you can dyno "tailor" the device to one vehicle or another. The stoichiometry (ratio) of air/fuel is dictated by the fuel; one value for gasoline, another for ethanol. More or less fuel for a given amount of air just means a rich or a lean mixture. Less power but safety for rich, more power but dangerous for lean. I could be wrong but simply replacing gasoline with ethanol should not result in more power unless you optimize the timing. Or make a potentially dangerous change in the air/fuel ratio. I don't see how the AFD device could change the timing directly so what does that leave?

Is AFD making a fair comparison i.e. to a fully adapted vehicle fueled with 93 octane pump gas? Or to a California car with 91?

[opihi5]

Originally Posted by dpaul

S65 engine was not on their compatibility list

However, I emailed them about it - here's the reply:

"Hello,

Thank you for your inquiry. eFlexFuel is compatible with this engine. However, the original fuel pump may not develop enough flow for pure E85.

Does the car have the original pump? The only way of course to know this for sure is to test it. And if the the flow (when asking full power with pure ethanol) is not adequate, you can change a little bit bigger E85 rated pump.

If you have nay further questions, we are happy to answer. Order can easily be made from here: https://eflexfuel.com/Store/Form

We will automatically include all necessary accessories for easy installation and the car-specific connectors etc. Shipping to US takes about 3 days and is free of charge."

For everyone with questions about the AFD kit i feel like this will clear things up.

The fuel pump Is fully capable of running 100percent e85 if you are naturally aspirated. The kit however will pull timing from anything over 70% seems to be the limit for na s65. Ive been running the afd kit and found the beat results are around 65% e85. Just mix around 4 gallons 91 into the tank.

And yes everyone you can feel the difference in power/response. FBO i put down 383 on a dyno reading ~25 hp lower for other cars.

[Doc Oc]

There is no difference between how this kit works and how the afd kit works. There's no way to "tailor" a kit towards the M other than getting the proper injector connectors so that there is no splicing necessary. EflexFuel is a Finish company and doesn't make performance claims because they aren't selling it as a performance mod. As far as a tune goes I guess it's up to the vendor whether they'll sell you a tune or not. There's no difference in tuning for the afd kit vs the eflex, but with my car, eurocharged would not sell me a flexfuel tune because they're an afd reseller. OE will though I believe. For what it's worth, my car (c63) gained 14 rwhp at 60% ethanol without extra tuning, so it's not a huge power adder by itself, but may be more effective at higher temps when the ECU would normally pull timing. You definitely need a tailored tune to take full advantage of any of these kits though. Unfortunately I can't do that without investing in a whole new base tune plus new injectors as mine are hitting 95% duty cycle even at 60% ethanol.

[JsL]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

There is no difference between how this kit works and how the afd kit works. There's no way to "tailor" a kit towards the M other than getting the proper injector connectors so that there is no splicing necessary. EflexFuel is a Finish company and doesn't make performance claims because they aren't selling it as a performance mod. As far as a tune goes I guess it's up to the vendor whether they'll sell you a tune or not. There's no difference in tuning for the afd kit vs the eflex, but with my car, eurocharged would not sell me a flexfuel tune because they're an afd reseller. OE will though I believe. For what it's worth, my car (c63) gained 14 rwhp at 60% ethanol without extra tuning, so it's not a huge power adder by itself, but may be more effective at higher temps when the ECU would normally pull timing. You definitely need a tailored tune to take full advantage of any of these kits though. Unfortunately I can't do that without investing in a whole new base tune plus new injectors as mine are hitting 95% duty cycle even at 60% ethanol.

So... Your saying the AFD kit and Eflexfuel kit control the injectors identically based on ethanol content. Basically all flex fuel kits regardless of brand are the same, just connectors and number of connectors?

Then, I can just buy the AFD Mustang or Corvette kit for 400 cheaper and use it for my M3 (if the injector plugs are the same).

I don't know, doesn't seem right to me, but I don't have both kits in hand to compare.

The price is very enticing for the Eflexfuel, so I hope they are the same.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by JsL

So... Your saying the AFD kit and Eflexfuel kit control the injectors identically based on ethanol content. Basically all flex fuel kits regardless of brand are the same, just connectors and number of connectors?

Then, I can just buy the AFD Mustang or Corvette kit for 400 cheaper and use it for my M3 (if the injector plugs are the same).

I don't know, doesn't seem right to me, but I don't have both kits in hand to compare.

The price is very enticing for the Eflexfuel, so I hope they are the same.

That's a question better posed to the manufacturer but I would say yes, basically. There's not much to it. A ground and two wires to the injectors. On the c63 the eflex kit and the afd kit look nearly identical. There's a thread on mbworld with some more info if interested. Ironically, the eflex kit has a better app than the afd kit as well. You can also check out vrp racing as they offer a rebranded version of the eflex kit.

[azndrunk74]

the eflexfuel app looks nice - let's you monitor duty cycles.

i don't have an opinion on the diff between eflex and AFD, although the AFD is true plug and play. you'll need additional fittings with the eflex for the fuel line most likely.

[Doc Oc]

Originally Posted by azndrunk74

the eflexfuel app looks nice - let's you monitor duty cycles.

i don't have an opinion on the diff between eflex and AFD, although the AFD is true plug and play. you'll need additional fittings with the eflex for the fuel line most likely.

I have no idea about the M application but the kit for my car came with about 6-8 fuel fittings in a couple different angles and a replacement hose. Install was a breeze, although the afd kit has one less step than the eflex kit in that you have to identify the polarity of the injector wires to install the adapters on the eflex harness whereas the adapters are already attached with afd. Very simple to do though.

[JsL]

Did some flex fuel kit research tonight and found out GM guys (corvettes and camaros) have a pin on thier ecu made to connect to a flex fuel sensor. They buy a flex fuel sensor, connect it to that pin on the ecu and enable this feature using software and obd cable. This allows the ecu to adjust injector duty AND timing. Why can't we have an input like that on our ecu

[Doc Oc]

Oh wow, thats awesome. So no injector wiring necessary?

[JsL]

Originally Posted by Doc Oc

Oh wow, thats awesome. So no injector wiring necessary?

Nope, they just need to ensure thier fuel pump and injectors can handle the added demand of full e85.

[8500RPM]

Wow we need someone to try this on the S65 ASAP

[jv92red]

This is the kit that the CTS-V crowd recommends for thier LSA motor:

https://dsxtuning.com/products/dsx-f...9-2014-cts-v-1

Plug and play. One white wire to plug in then you need a tuner (pay a tuner to do it or get an HP Tuners or EFILive tuner and do it yourself) to unlock the ECU so that the ECU can then take control of compensating the stock base tune on what it sees in ethanol between 0-100% E85 on the fly(100% E85 is 65% to 80% ethanol depending on the season and your location). No monitoring fuel content or reflashing tunes needed.

Running this kit on the LSA motor sees an additional ~60-70HP to the wheels gain. Not bad for a $300 investment!

[pbonsalb]

I tend to doubt the S65 ECU is set up to be E85 compatible. A flex fuel kit is probably needed. A year ago when AFD appeared, I commented that there were E85 universal kits for 1/3 to 1/2 the price. As I recall,I was told that what AFD offered was much superior. If there was E85 near me, I would seriously consider a kit but not the AFD kit. If they knew what they were doing with the S65, they would have a flex fuel tune incorporated into their pro flex commander piggyback. I have a Vishnu Procede with meth on my S65 and it adds timing and leans the mixture when Meth is flowing and reverts to stock timing when it is not.

[8500RPM]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I tend to doubt the S65 ECU is set up to be E85 compatible. A flex fuel kit is probably needed. A year ago when AFD appeared, I commented that there were E85 universal kits for 1/3 to 1/2 the price. As I recall,I was told that what AFD offered was much superior. If there was E85 near me, I would seriously consider a kit but not the AFD kit. If they knew what they were doing with the S65, they would have a flex fuel tune incorporated into their pro flex commander piggyback. I gave a Vishnu Procede with meth on my S65 and it adds timing and leans the mixture when Meth is flowing and reverts to stock timing when it is not.

No the S65 DME isn't setup for Flex Fuel like late model Chevy ECU's. The AFD and EflexFuel apparently do the same exact thing. Difference is the AFD is advertised as a performance mod while the Eflexfuel is advertised as a cost/environmental mod.

Eflexfuel is universal so it doesn't come with the M3 tax, at least that's how I understand it. I hope somneone has the balls to try out the Eflexfuel kit on the S65 motor to make sure everything works correctly. $400 for the Eflexfuel is a nobrainer if it works good.

[///M3Fresh]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I tend to doubt the S65 ECU is set up to be E85 compatible. A flex fuel kit is probably needed. A year ago when AFD appeared, I commented that there were E85 universal kits for 1/3 to 1/2 the price. As I recall,I was told that what AFD offered was much superior. If there was E85 near me, I would seriously consider a kit but not the AFD kit. If they knew what they were doing with the S65, they would have a flex fuel tune incorporated into their pro flex commander piggyback. I have a Vishnu Procede with meth on my S65 and it adds timing and leans the mixture when Meth is flowing and reverts to stock timing when it is not.

Are you spraying meth for power or to keep temps down?

Originally Posted by 8500RPM

No the S65 DME isn't setup for Flex Fuel like late model Chevy ECU's. The AFD and EflexFuel apparently do the same exact thing. Difference is the AFD is advertised as a performance mod while the Eflexfuel is advertised as a cost/environmental mod.

Eflexfuel is universal so it doesn't come with the M3 tax, at least that's how I understand it. I hope somneone has the balls to try out the Eflexfuel kit on the S65 motor to make sure everything works correctly. $400 for the Eflexfuel is a nobrainer if it works good.

I agree that is very cheap considering the potential gains. Tempting. I should have a E85 tune coming from Evolve soon. I am trying to see if theres any benefit to adding the flexfuel kit vs just going back and forth to the required fuel maps I need at the time of fill-up.

[pbonsalb]

I am spraying meth for power — timing is added by the piggyback controller when meth is spraying.