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      06-15-2018, 02:22 AM   #23
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Hang on, can we get back on track. From the data shown in the OP, the variance is excellent, no?
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      06-15-2018, 02:50 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharbag View Post
Great to have options but here is my thought on this:

Consumable items:
Tank of fuel ~ $50 and the S65 uses lots of go-juice
Set of 4 tires ~ $1000 and she likes to eat the rears...
Oil change ~ $100 if you do it yourself

Non wear items (install cost/effort is same for either option):
Set of BE bearings = $530.10 (shipped from Redline360 right now)
Set of ACL bearings ~$250 (cannot remember exact price but close enough)

Difference is ~$270 for something that SHOULD last for the life of the car.

Price, IMHO, is not a factor when considering rod bearing replacement. The material cost is only a pittance (~5 tanks of fuel, set of rear tires etc.) compared to the cost/effort to change rod bearings. Furthermore, a rebuild/swap is going to cost 20x the cost of rod bearings.

Again, it is nice to have options. Competition is good when it is apples to apples products such as Brembo vs Stoptech etc.

But apples and oranges should not be compared as equals - cause we all know that oranges are better.

Cheers,
First of all, BE is doing a great job for the ///M community! Hats off to them! They are truly awesome!

The comparison here is not even between BE and Acl. BE is not a manufacturer, rather it's Clevite. A simple Google search will yield many pages from forums for other performance cars comparing the two manufacturers. Conclusion: Both are damn good and reliable rod bearing manufacturers. Some prefer Acl while others prefer Clevite. It was difficult to find one negative review about the Acl race bearings after scrolling through hundreds of pages on the web. So let's not say, we are comparing "Apples to Oranges".

Kobe said it best when people kept on debating whether MJ or LBJ is the GOAT. He said, "We can enjoy one without tearing down one."

On a side note, Acl race bearings can be purchased for as low as $185.00. Compared that to BE that is sold for Min $535.00 and listed on the BE website for $589.00. That's a huge price difference!

I will dedicate another post comparing the material and clearance of the two bearings. I'm studying a 190 page detailed catalog written by Acl about their bearings and many other catalogs on their website. Also studying the outstanding research done by the BE team.

Few fun facts thus far in my in depth research on bearings: (I'm doing my PhD at the moment so love to do research and read through hundreds of pages)


BE considers the Tri-Metal design as the world's best bearings design. It's states on their website, "Look in the best automotive engines, and you're likely to find a Tri-Metal bearing design." This was one of the critiques of the earlier bearings that were designed for our cars.

Spoiler Alert: Acl race series bearings also has the same Tri-Metal design.

Clearly clearance is one of the biggest concerns raised by BE. The following is written on the website, "The original BMW bearings have too little clearance, which leads to premature bearing wear and can cause early engine failure." They also note how all the earlier bearing designs failed to address this clearance issue (which is hundred percent true).

Acl race series bearings clearly has extra clearance as well.

People should know about and have the option of buying whichever bearings they would prefer. In my opinion, You can't go wrong with either of these two choices.

Additional analysis will be provided upon completion of my Rod Bearings job which is scheduled to be done next weekend.
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      06-15-2018, 03:23 AM   #25
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Bearings arrived yesterday.
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      06-15-2018, 08:36 PM   #26
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Can we all just stop with the bearing "dick measuring" contest? Seriously buy whatever you feel comfortable with. I went with VAC because my shop has used them for years with zero failures and I get a huge discount on them. Literal convenience was the deciding factor. I've installed BE,VAC, WPC and OE. They have all performed flawlessly and the engines are still working. I swear until each bearing manufacturer is tested in the same engine, under the same conditions and test criteria, objectively, we can all just stfu about it.
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      06-15-2018, 09:26 PM   #27
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I agree. Any new bearing is good. I installed WPC treated stock 4 years ago but would install any others and be happy as well. If I had the choice, I would go with added clearance lead containing bearings.
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      06-15-2018, 09:30 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gears_and_Gasoline View Post
Can we all just stop with the bearing "dick measuring" contest? Seriously buy whatever you feel comfortable with. I went with VAC because my shop has used them for years with zero failures and I get a huge discount on them. Literally convenience was the deciding factor. I've installed BE,VAC, WPC and OE. They have all performed flawlessly and the engines are still working. I swear until each bearing manufacturer is tested in the same engine, under the same conditions and test criteria, objectively, we can all just stfu about it.
Well said. Your post made my day. lol!

That's the argument I was trying to make all along. For me, ACL was due to convenience and price. It was a no brainer.
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      07-02-2018, 03:58 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majdi View Post
Bearings arrived yesterday.
How did you go? I pick my car up tomorrow... Will report back.
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      07-12-2018, 06:06 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by groovetek View Post
How did you go? I pick my car up tomorrow... Will report back.
How has your car been with the HX shells mate?
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      07-14-2018, 03:22 PM   #31
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It's been fine, still early days of course.

Engine is noticeably quieter, less clacking sounds if that makes sense, though can get that from fresh oil change in general too I guess.

Moving to the HX, I've also moved back to TWS 10W-60, where previously I was running Mobil1 5W-50.
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      07-16-2018, 11:37 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majdi View Post
Well said. Your post made my day. lol!

That's the argument I was trying to make all along. For me, ACL was due to convenience and price. It was a no brainer.
So you finally choose HX-STD?
I am hesitant to choose H-STD or HX-STD
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      07-16-2018, 11:51 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by environment2012 View Post
So you finally choose HX-STD?
I am hesitant to choose H-STD or HX-STD
H is according to ACL targeted OE 702/703 clearance while HX is opened up by 0.025mm. You just need to make up your mind whether you want increased clearance or not.
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      07-16-2018, 12:11 PM   #34
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Is HX-STD clearance bigger than BE?
Or is H-STD closer to BE?
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      07-22-2018, 10:55 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by environment2012 View Post
Is HX-STD clearance bigger than BE?
Or is H-STD closer to BE?
I went with the HX. It has more clearance than BE. Can't use thin oils with it. But H-STD also has an additional clearance over the OEM bearings but not as much as the HX ones. Both are absolutely fine.
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      07-22-2018, 10:58 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by groovetek View Post
How did you go? I pick my car up tomorrow... Will report back.
Car is running great. Again, it's early. Only been 800 miles since I replaced the bearings. But at least I don't have to fear anymore every time I turn my car on that my engine might breakdown.
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      07-22-2018, 11:25 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majdi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by environment2012 View Post
Is HX-STD clearance bigger than BE?
Or is H-STD closer to BE?
I went with the HX. It has more clearance than BE. Can't use thin oils with it. But H-STD also has an additional clearance over the OEM bearings but not as much as the HX ones. Both are absolutely fine.
Thank you for your reply, because I don't understand how too much or too little clearance affects the engine, so I choose H-STD between OEM and BE, but I use 10W60 oil.
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      08-04-2018, 09:43 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fubar_M3 View Post
Can we all just stop with the bearing "dick measuring" contest? Seriously buy whatever you feel comfortable with. I went with VAC because my shop has used them for years with zero failures and I get a huge discount on them. Literal convenience was the deciding factor. I've installed BE,VAC, WPC and OE. They have all performed flawlessly and the engines are still working. I swear until each bearing manufacturer is tested in the same engine, under the same conditions and test criteria, objectively, we can all just stfu about it.
I agree. There is no difference on what brand of bearings you get they all will all do the same thing. Granted some company's might say they are better than others but in the end its all about preference. Different strokes for different folks . Just received my ACL H bearings going to install them this week will post pictures of original bearings that have 77k miles.
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      12-13-2018, 08:40 PM   #39
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Update: Specifications for ACL-HX-STD Bearings

Overview:

By popular demand, and with the help of deansbimmer, Bert@BE Bearings acquired a set of ACL-HX-STD bearings and measured them up. Folks are under the impression that if ACL-STD bearings are same as factory clearance, that using ACL-HX-STD bearings will be the right choice. It is our opinion that using HX-STD bearings alone would end up with too much clearance. Here's the measurements, let you and your engine builder be the judge. (Post-1 updated to reflect these new measurements and fix a typo or two.)

Dimensions

+0.025 MM, +0.001 INCH

Bearing Clearance Specifications


Clearance Measurements


Eccentricity Measurements



Bearing Eccentricity: ACL-H, ACL-HX Bearings vs. stock 702/703 rod bearings
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      12-13-2018, 09:16 PM   #40
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Lang Racing has a combination of the ACL bearings that it likes. I don’t think it’s all STD or all HX-STD.
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      12-14-2018, 06:55 AM   #41
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Autotalent, BE, many thanks for taking time to measure and post. Don't mean to bug you guys but curious about your view of issue with this clearance.

Interestingly read about your oil pressure measure coming down 4% isch by increasing clearance by 50-75% or so. Any hints on where the pressure would go due to another 25% isch?
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      12-14-2018, 07:28 AM   #42
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More great information! BE reaffirms that it will remain the gold standard for these engines.

BE has been the only company to bring forth voluminous amounts of concrete data. Not ACL, VAC, Lang, or anyone else. We have used BE's measurement data to educate ourselves, see past marketing pitches, create technical based discussion, and help confirm the need to get our bearing services done.

That alone should be enough to purchase BE bearings and promote such an operation to thrive. To consume and redistribute their research but buy cheaper bearings is to pay them lip service.
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      12-14-2018, 07:47 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deansbimmer View Post
More great information! BE reaffirms that it will remain the gold standard for these engines.

BE has been the only company to bring forth voluminous amounts of concrete data. Not ACL, VAC, Lang, or anyone else. We have used BE's measurement data to educate ourselves, see past marketing pitches, create technical based discussion, and help confirm the need to get our bearing services done.

That alone should be enough to purchase BE bearings and promote such an operation to thrive. To consume and redistribute their research but buy cheaper bearings is to pay them lip service.
In principle I agree mate, although assumes product delivery too....
Anyways, a suppliers even assumingly superior work in my book doesn't mean they are untouchable for competition. Suggesting a competitor yo have less optimized product - which is again interesting- certainly invite to explanation.
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      12-14-2018, 07:54 AM   #44
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Quote:
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In principle I agree mate, although assumes product delivery too....
BE is a relatively small operation. The more business we can give them the more sets they can order at a time until availability is no longer an issue. They've been near doubling each of their orders with Clevite...

Additionally, just because their website says unavailable doesn't mean their listed vendors don't have any. We've had them in stock all this time but only one customer contacted us for purchase.
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