Track forum general chit chat.

[redpriest]

My Strom Motorsports uprights shipped today, so I'm really excited about trying these out.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by redpriest

I love my JRZ suspension. What I didn't love was having to wait 4 months during the summer to get the damper rebuilt when the endlink snapped off the mounting point on the housing. To rebuild, I had to ship to the factory in the Netherlands, which is shut down for a holiday summer break. Sucks to be me.

When I looked at suspension options, there were only two choices I wanted. MCS or JRZ. JRZ won by virtue of a good used set being available from a friend and friends running it so I could compare, but I would have bought MCS brand new.

I think I'll be switching to MCS soon.

You couldn't find a rebuilder here in the US? Inertia Lab couldn't do it?

[admranger]

Originally Posted by aututto

Blah, I'm really leaning into KW CS currently. Maybe I can upgrade to mcs 2wnr in a couple years. I'm on stock suspension with 97k miles so I just need something I can afford this year.....and also save tires lol.

My shop stands by MCS though, I know thats where I'll be eventually

How does the TC Kline Koni suspension compare price wise to KW? It's a good budget suspension in my experience. TC does a decent job balancing out the suspension and provides support.

What about going to MCS singles as a stepping stone to hexo/septo/octo-adjustables?

[redpriest]

Originally Posted by dparm

You couldn't find a rebuilder here in the US? Inertia Lab couldn't do it?

Nobody I talked to wanted to touch it because of the nature of the problem - the endlink attachment was sheared straight off and the only thing that can be done at that point is weld.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by admranger

How does the TC Kline Koni suspension compare price wise to KW? It's a good budget suspension in my experience. TC does a decent job balancing out the suspension and provides support.

What about going to MCS singles as a stepping stone to hexo/septo/octo-adjustables?

I'd take an OTS KW Clubsport over a TCK DA. The Koni's can't take very much spring, even at the max valving. The KW's are proven to be a capable setup and excellent bang for buck at ~$3k new. For the same money you can get SA Ohlins Track-Day Kit from 3DM (revalved R&T's with stiffer springs). This setup is cheaper then MCS singles and have a few design advantages over the MCS's as well.

[//steve\\]

For a dual duty car that sees a lot of street time if not more than track time the Ohlins R&T with more spring would be my answer 99% of the time. It's absolutely what I'd be on if I didn't find a great deal on my MCS 2WNR setup. I generally don't think the Ohlins R&T gets as much credit as it's due. Off the shelf their rates typically are a little on the lower side for what you'd want in a performance oriented setup but I've found that usually just going to about what the max spring they can handle without the revalve is perfect. The Ohlins stuff is typically super light too.

[dparm]

My original question should have been more precise: if we properly calculated the correct shock and spring setup for a given car, whose setup would you choose to use and why? Let's assume that all of those brands can manufacture the exact spec you need. It isn't a given brand's fault if people don't do their research and just assume shock & spring combo X will work. I think we are dancing around this topic, but are also mixing up the off-the-shelf kits and custom. I would assume that most of the serious track drivers go custom and work with a shop on this.

Identifying key differences in the designs, repairability, durability, after-sales support, etc. are what would be important.

The other angle is price. Is brand X justified in charging $6,000 when brand Y offers a system to built to the same spec at $3,000? What's the inflection point for diminishing returns?

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by tsk94

I'd take an OTS KW Clubsport over a TCK DA. The Koni's can't take very much spring, even at the max valving. The KW's are proven to be a capable setup and excellent bang for buck at ~$3k new. .

I agree. The Koni shock is like building your house on a foundation of sand. Even the OEM stuff is catching up.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by dparm

My original question should have been more precise: if we properly calculated the correct shock and spring setup for a given car, whose setup would you choose to use and why? Let's assume that all of those brands can manufacture the exact spec you need. It isn't a given brand's fault if people don't do their research and just assume shock & spring combo X will work. I think we are dancing around this topic, but are also mixing up the off-the-shelf kits and custom. I would assume that most of the serious track drivers go custom and work with a shop on this.

Identifying key differences in the designs, repairability, durability, after-sales support, etc. are what would be important.

The other angle is price. Is brand X justified in charging $6,000 when brand Y offers a system to built to the same spec at $3,000? What's the inflection point for diminishing returns?

All offerings from the big name companies, at a similar price, will be similar in performance. The JRZ motorsport line, MCS, KW Competition, Ohlins and Penske all make very good products and all offer similar dampers at similar prices with some features that differentiate them slightly, but overall they all perform well and are not incredibly different from one another.

The first thing, I think, you should do is determine your price limit or range. Once you have that you can start narrowing it down in terms of which company meets your needs for support, durability, design differences and so on. In almost all instances, the cheap(er) shock with similar specs will perform noticeably worse then the full/normal price offering. No point cheaping out on the shocks, as you'd likely end up upgrading again in the future and will cost you more in the long run. Do it once and do it right the first time.

I have absolutely no idea of what options there are for your car, but I suspect most of the big names listed above have some sort of kit you can buy for your car.

Depending on your price range, I think you'd for sure want a double adjustable. Remote reservoir/piggyback (depending on model) is a definitely a good way to go if it's in the budget. I don't recommend going 3 or 4 way unless you have a very good understanding of how to tune dampers properly, or you're willing to rely on support from whoever you choose to go with to help you with this.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by fsmtnbiker

From the feedback I've seen, the 3R is faster, lasts longer, and is more stable with heat.

I do not like the A052s much. They're fast but the wear is ridiculous, they don't drive particularly well and I find them unpredictable at the limit.

I just mounted Corsa 305/30/19 and will give it a try on the rear. If it fits, then the GY 3R will fit as well.

It looks massive.
I feel like having a Corvette
.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by dparm

My original question should have been more precise: if we properly calculated the correct shock and spring setup for a given car, whose setup would you choose to use and why? Let's assume that all of those brands can manufacture the exact spec you need. It isn't a given brand's fault if people don't do their research and just assume shock & spring combo X will work. I think we are dancing around this topic, but are also mixing up the off-the-shelf kits and custom. I would assume that most of the serious track drivers go custom and work with a shop on this.

Identifying key differences in the designs, repairability, durability, after-sales support, etc. are what would be important.

The other angle is price. Is brand X justified in charging $6,000 when brand Y offers a system to built to the same spec at $3,000? What's the inflection point for diminishing returns?

Dparm, being a Vette guy, is it just me or would the clear answer be getting whatever LG Motorsports sells?
Especially because you may be able to get the setup from them, which is worth its weight in gold.

A well set up middle of the road suspension is way better than a top of the line monstrosity you cannot set up to save your life

edit: dparm I think you missed this post

[dparm]

Originally Posted by rhyary

I just mounted Corsa 305/30/19 and will give it a try on the rear. If it fits, then the GY 3R will fit as well.

It looks massive.
I feel like having a Corvette
.

305 rears, that's cute. I run 345. Get on my level.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by dparm

305 rears, that's cute. I run 345. Get on my level.

I feel personally attacked.

[CorruptCommie]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I agree. The Koni shock is like building your house on a foundation of sand. Even the OEM stuff is catching up.

TC drives the 'stock' M3 on Hoosiers up I-71 to Mid Ohio. He specs his setup to that, potholes and all

On my D/A's the limit was around 600/700 spring rate, got them revalved for 700/800 (E46M). No complaints and they work great, especially after we twisted the dials a bit.

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by dparm

305 rears, that's cute. I run 345. Get on my level.

245's ftw.

[Richbot]

Koni makes some really good dampers. They don't make a good strut application for these cars, not a drop-in one anyway, not at the level of the multiple excellent application-specific struts that are available from other manufacturers.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Richbot

Koni makes some really good dampers. They don't make a good strut application for these cars, not a drop-in one anyway, not at the level of the multiple excellent application-specific struts that are available from other manufacturers.

What makes them good?

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by dparm

What makes them good?

What do the GSpeed guys use?

[dparm]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

What do the GSpeed guys use?

Penske

[k_mann]

Originally Posted by dparm

Penske

....so you gonna go with Penske then?

[Move Over]

Made some progress on my rear cradle today. All SPL rear arms in and hotchkis bars in front and rear. Core4 hubs come in tomorrow and hopefully subframe back in over the weekend. Picking up my differential next week, and hope to shake it down and break it in sometime in February.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by //steve\\

For a dual duty car that sees a lot of street time if not more than track time the Ohlins R&T with more spring would be my answer 99% of the time. It's absolutely what I'd be on if I didn't find a great deal on my MCS 2WNR setup. I generally don't think the Ohlins R&T gets as much credit as it's due. Off the shelf their rates typically are a little on the lower side for what you'd want in a performance oriented setup but I've found that usually just going to about what the max spring they can handle without the revalve is perfect. The Ohlins stuff is typically super light too.

I liked the Ohlins I had on the E46M3 (ex-RRT units). Supple even over stuff that would toss the car on the stock suspension. Singles though...