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      03-02-2019, 08:57 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by pimp4cheddar View Post
I've really toyed with the idea...but deep down inside I know I will NEVER drive the beater lol. It'll be an extra car on my insurance for no reason...
i tend to think of things like this with actual costs... driving my beater and having it as my primary commuter does have an insurance benefit- i'm able to set the deductible high on my smart car (it cost $5,600- so who cares if i wreck it). i have my primary driver as a shitty car with a high deductible. that makes the m3 insurance go down- i put less miles on the more expensive car. this is how insurance calculates things. also, with a multi-policy discount, insurance costs are minimal.
fuel costs alone offset my overall costs driving the smart. once you factor in tires, more frequent oil changes, brake pads, it makes more sense.

i'm not trying to convince you or change your mind- just know it has been considered and found to be negligible. i'm saving a ton of money for the same result, and we get to enjoy an m3, just in different ways. i also don't have to stress about how i'm going to be able to get sideways though a driveway dip during traffic, and i don't care about parking anywhere i fit. i love driving this trash bucket because that stress is completely removed. lol
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      03-03-2019, 08:44 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
lol everyone's finances are different. sometimes leasing is better, sometimes financing is better, sometimes just buying the car outright is better.

low exposure is a big part of leasing. You can use your money to invest and make money rather than parking it all in a depreciating asset like a bmw long term. You could do the same with financing but it will require a large down payment.
This is what I just don't get, "depreciating asset". Why does everyone look at an automobile as a depreciating asset? A car is a transportation tool, not a financial investment vehicle. There are hundreds of other purchases a person makes that are depreciating assets, but no one ever gets concerned over them.

The only financial aspect of a vehicle purchase is how many cents per mile it costs you to drive it for your transportation needs. The longer you own the vehicle and the father you drive it to amortize the cost of it over miles driven is the only metric that should be evaluated.
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      03-03-2019, 12:00 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
This is what I just don't get, "depreciating asset". Why does everyone look at an automobile as a depreciating asset? A car is a transportation tool, not a financial investment vehicle. There are hundreds of other purchases a person makes that are depreciating assets, but no one every gets concerned over them.

The only financial aspect of a vehicle purchase is how many cents per mile it cost you to drive it for your transportation needs. The longer you own the vehicle and the father you drive it to amortize the cost of it over mile driven is the only metric that should be evaluated.
+1

The whole depreciation aspect is tied to people that flip out of their vehicles into something new on a regular basis. When you develop this pattern, how much your "old" vehicle is worth when applied to the purchase of the new vehicle factors in majorly. I knew a coworker who had a perfectly fine Nissan Sentra. She hated it because it didn't project a certain image. Despite being upside down on that car, she was hell bent on buying a Lexus. So she did and rolled the negative equity into the new car purchase.

I've purchased one used car which turned out fine as I held on to it for about 15 years. All of my other car purchases have been new. But depreciation doesn't factor into any of those purchases because I hold on to them for a very long time.
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      03-03-2019, 09:00 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
i tend to think of things like this with actual costs... driving my beater and having it as my primary commuter does have an insurance benefit- i'm able to set the deductible high on my smart car (it cost $5,600- so who cares if i wreck it). i have my primary driver as a shitty car with a high deductible. that makes the m3 insurance go down- i put less miles on the more expensive car. this is how insurance calculates things. also, with a multi-policy discount, insurance costs are minimal.
fuel costs alone offset my overall costs driving the smart. once you factor in tires, more frequent oil changes, brake pads, it makes more sense.

i'm not trying to convince you or change your mind- just know it has been considered and found to be negligible. i'm saving a ton of money for the same result, and we get to enjoy an m3, just in different ways. i also don't have to stress about how i'm going to be able to get sideways though a driveway dip during traffic, and i don't care about parking anywhere i fit. i love driving this trash bucket because that stress is completely removed. lol


All of those costs are minimal and negligible to many...but truly they mean zero to me in my decision. If the focus is only on cost...the aspect of usage is nothing more than a budgeting question.

It's all personal preference and truly subjective based on self.

I don't purchase items to save them. For me...the point of purchasing a consumable good (auto or not) is to use and enjoy regularly. I place a large focus on utility throughout my daily life - that SMART car would rust in my garage lol
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      03-06-2019, 08:51 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
i tend to think of things like this with actual costs... driving my beater and having it as my primary commuter does have an insurance benefit- i'm able to set the deductible high on my smart car (it cost $5,600- so who cares if i wreck it). i have my primary driver as a shitty car with a high deductible. that makes the m3 insurance go down- i put less miles on the more expensive car. this is how insurance calculates things. also, with a multi-policy discount, insurance costs are minimal.
fuel costs alone offset my overall costs driving the smart. once you factor in tires, more frequent oil changes, brake pads, it makes more sense.

i'm not trying to convince you or change your mind- just know it has been considered and found to be negligible. i'm saving a ton of money for the same result, and we get to enjoy an m3, just in different ways. i also don't have to stress about how i'm going to be able to get sideways though a driveway dip during traffic, and i don't care about parking anywhere i fit. i love driving this trash bucket because that stress is completely removed. lol
100% -- u are so right about driveway dips in traffic and parking.
parking lots are nightmares when you have a beaut..
i love my mileage eater beater for the same reasons.
stress free commuting and get to conserve the expensive maintenance items on the M..

not to mention who the hell enjoys daily driving??! work commute rush-hour traffic not driving very fast etc. why would u put a good car in that muck?

drive the beast like it deserves.. on empty roads.
thats fun. thats living.
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      03-06-2019, 09:07 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by pimp4cheddar View Post
All of those costs are minimal and negligible to many...but truly they mean zero to me in my decision. If the focus is only on cost...the aspect of usage is nothing more than a budgeting question.

It's all personal preference and truly subjective based on self.

I don't purchase items to save them. For me...the point of purchasing a consumable good (auto or not) is to use and enjoy regularly. I place a large focus on utility throughout my daily life - that SMART car would rust in my garage lol
I mean I wouldn't have a beater car for a 2 series either
but
if you put focus on utility, then why is an M5 your daily driver?

you should have a truck or SUV of your liking if thats the case

because while the M5 is practical with a trunk&seating for five,
it is still very limited in its utility and capability due to its low ground clearance and low profile tires ..

but u drive a 2 series? even less practical.
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      03-06-2019, 12:07 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
This is what I just don't get, "depreciating asset". Why does everyone look at an automobile as a depreciating asset? A car is a transportation tool, not a financial investment vehicle. There are hundreds of other purchases a person makes that are depreciating assets, but no one ever gets concerned over them.
While I agree with your general sentiment, the reason that people go nuts about the "depreciating asset" labeling for cars is likely for at least one of several reasons: A) people want to sound like they're smart people by throwing out grown-up sounding terms B) there is a proportion of people who are beyond cheap and the idea of losing a lot of money on anything is worse than death C) people legitimize the fact that they cannot, in reality afford nicer, more expensive things. The underlying premise here is that cars are generally the second most expensive thing someone buys, so losing thousands of dollars, which could otherwise be spent on everything else someone would purchase, is objectionable. That someone spends ~$100 on jeans, which are worth far less once used isn't as much of an issue because the actual cost and how they are typically used.

Having said that, I more view cars as a "cost of doing business" for someone like myself who is a car person. I know exactly what I'm getting into and what I could lose. But what else do I want to spend the money on? Why work hard in life? Boosting savings and investments is important of course, but I can't drive my bank account. I can't use my bank account for a track day.

With regard to the question at hand, at the risk of getting banned from this sight, my M3 might be the beater! We just purchased a brand new Grand Cherokee for shared use, since my SO can't drive a manual and doesn't want to learn how. Selling the M3 for any SUV just wasn't in the cards. So now it sleeps and can be used exclusively for pleasure driving.

Actually none of that's totally true. I suppose we do have a beater car, which would be my SOs vehicle. She has a Hyundai Tucson which is a decent enough car, but it's been destroyed by our dog and it has 143k miles, so it's a great vehicle to take pretty much anywhere. I love it because other than maintenance, I really don't care about it. It used to be the only car that the both of us can drive, but now it's the car we use for everything we don't want to do with the Grand Cherokee.
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      03-06-2019, 12:39 PM   #162
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I have a DD. No way I would take even the M to certain places due to shitty parking and look at all this bullshit rain in LA for the last few months. Every fucking week it's raining 2 days at least and fucking up the roads I usually take. I don't drive my other cars in the rain. Not even after if there's mud and shit all over the roads.
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      03-06-2019, 01:28 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post

The only financial aspect of a vehicle purchase is how many cents per mile it costs you to drive it for your transportation needs. The longer you own the vehicle and the father you drive it to amortize the cost of it over miles driven is the only metric that should be evaluated.
It's a good thing the only metric in life isn't financial, otherwise I wouldn't go on so many vacations, eat interesting and new foods, take up new hobbies, or drive as many cars. Sure, I could drive the same car for 10 years, and I've done that in the past, but I'd much rather experience something new every 2-3 years. Life is too short. I want to do as many things, drive as many cars, and experience as many new experiences as I can before I die.
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      03-06-2019, 02:15 PM   #164
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not to mention who the hell enjoys daily driving??! work commute rush-hour traffic not driving very fast etc. why would u put a good car in that muck?
One definite good thing about living in a ruralish area is that my commute is ~20 minutes out a windy 2-lane road. My sister moved to Brooklyn years ago, and after an HPDE weekend in my RS 4 at Watkins Glen in 2011 I ran over to visit her for the first time. I scheduled a carbon cleaning with a shop on Long Island while I was there, and the US Open happened to be coincidentally going on. We watched a couple matches, but getting to/from the shop on the LIE was a disaster. I decided that cars would not be my hobby if I lived in a big city, and have a lot of respect for the dedication and perseverance of those for whom it is.
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      03-06-2019, 02:27 PM   #165
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My E90 is my beater. lol. They're hilariously cheap.
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      03-06-2019, 02:40 PM   #166
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Wow! That Volvo is 15yrs old!?! That car is in excellent condition!
Thanks! Technically 17 years old now as we bought it 2 years old. Synthetic oil every 5/6k KM, all other fluids changed 2/3 years, fully waxed/detailed every spring and oil undercoated.

Other than the typical(brakes, tires, shocks, plugs, TB/WP) and a solder joint failing, it's been a tank like all old volvo's are. Plus the few newer/R model parts I've added on helps keep it updated(ABL xenon projectors, jewel led tails, properly sized brakes). One of the better car purchases we have made

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      03-06-2019, 11:02 PM   #167
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Thanks! Technically 17 years old now as we bought it 2 years old. Synthetic oil every 5/6k KM, all other fluids changed 2/3 years, fully waxed/detailed every spring and oil undercoated.

Other than the typical(brakes, tires, shocks, plugs, TB/WP) and a solder joint failing, it's been a tank like all old volvo's are. Plus the few newer/R model parts I've added on helps keep it updated(ABL xenon projectors, jewel led tails, properly sized brakes). One of the better car purchases we have made
Nice! Keep up the great work! But... Now i'm dying to see the interior!?

We recently bought a XC90 Gen II because of Volvo's reputation. We were in the market for a family hauler, and ultimately decided to go with Volvo over their competitors - Audi Q7, Land Rover discovery, Infinity QX60, Acura MDX, Lexus GX450 and the Mercedes GL 450.

Now I'm eyeing the X7 to add to the line up!
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      03-06-2019, 11:05 PM   #168
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I drive a 1st world beater...08 335i
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      03-06-2019, 11:51 PM   #169
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I drive a 1st world beater...08 335i
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I drive a 1st world beater...08 335i
bimmette had one of those
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      03-06-2019, 11:54 PM   #170
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I drive a 1st world beater...08 335i
bimmette had one of those
Psh...mine was an '07
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      03-07-2019, 09:37 AM   #171
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Nice! Keep up the great work! But... Now i'm dying to see the interior!?

We recently bought a XC90 Gen II because of Volvo's reputation. We were in the market for a family hauler, and ultimately decided to go with Volvo over their competitors - Audi Q7, Land Rover discovery, Infinity QX60, Acura MDX, Lexus GX450 and the Mercedes GL 450.

Now I'm eyeing the X7 to add to the line up!
Interior is a lovely tan :/ wasn't my choice. Sport seats w/ the T5 watch dial cluster, premium audio and the later sport steering wheel. Driver seat are starting to look its mileage even with conditioning but the rest does look cleanish even in winter.

20190215_080315 by Neil Vanderlaan, on Flickr

20181216_150223 by Neil Vanderlaan, on Flickr

We had many Volvo's but have turned away. IMO they stopped producing a fun sporty family option (no manuals anymore) that was safe but reliable and now have eliminated that in favour to pack in technology(like BMW is now doing) which really isn't our interest. As much as I like the V60 Polestar, I'm curious to see the new ones will actually last 3-400K like the old ones did; especially with all the computers and modules.

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      03-07-2019, 10:05 AM   #172
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Interior is a lovely tan :/ wasn't my choice. Sport seats w/ the T5 watch dial cluster, premium audio and the later sport steering wheel. Driver seat are starting to look its mileage even with conditioning but the rest does look cleanish even in winter.



We had many volvo's but have turned away. They stopped producing a fun sporty family option (no manuals anymore) that was safe but reliable and now have eliminated that in favour to pack in technology(like BMW is now doing) which really isn't our interest. Curious but hesitant to see the new ones last 3-400K like the old ones did especially with all the computers and modules.
Nice!

It's just a different time and generation; they're simply trying to make their vehicles more appealing to the current demographic. It took them a very long time to redesign their current line up, and I have to admit, I love It! Truth be told I didn't even consider buying a Volvo because they looked so dated!

I think it is definitely possible for newer cars to last as long but we may never really know - https://www.autotrader.com/car-shopp...ar-last-240725

I mean... My New Volvo doesn't have heated armrest!?! This is a travesty; I need this, and by the time I upgrade to heated armrest there will be heated door handles and shifters... And again, these are things I need, excuse me, will need! jk
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      03-07-2019, 10:10 AM   #173
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Nice!

they're simply trying to make their vehicles more appealing to the current demographic.
This I do totally agree with, they have changed their target market. Sucks for enthusiasts like me but it is the way most are going. Personally the only thing I would add would be bluetooth for music and hands-free use but I guess I am old school. Even for my E90 I sourced one out with only the M-sport package with 0 tech options.

The new models do look the part. Aesthetically they are fantastic and even the base model ones.
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      03-08-2019, 07:04 AM   #174
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It's a good thing the only metric in life isn't financial, otherwise I wouldn't go on so many vacations, eat interesting and new foods, take up new hobbies, or drive as many cars. Sure, I could drive the same car for 10 years, and I've done that in the past, but I'd much rather experience something new every 2-3 years. Life is too short. I want to do as many things, drive as many cars, and experience as many new experiences as I can before I die.
Exactly, which is why I don't understand why people place importance on the depreciating value of their automobile. It all comes down to a person's tolerance level of cost per mile. If you want to drive a Lambo at $4.00 per mile then great. If you want to drive a Ford Fiesta at $.25 per mile then great. But to complain about how much value your car has lost over time is stupid.

I can buy ribeye at the supermarket for $6.99 per pound and grill it myself, or go to Ruth's Chris steakhouse and get a Ribeye for $50. It's a matter of choice. Complaining I paid too much at Ruth's is just stupid.
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      03-08-2019, 07:14 AM   #175
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While I agree with your general sentiment, the reason that people go nuts about the "depreciating asset" labeling for cars is likely for at least one of several reasons: A) people want to sound like they're smart people by throwing out grown-up sounding terms B) there is a proportion of people who are beyond cheap and the idea of losing a lot of money on anything is worse than death C) people legitimize the fact that they cannot, in reality afford nicer, more expensive things. The underlying premise here is that cars are generally the second most expensive thing someone buys, so losing thousands of dollars, which could otherwise be spent on everything else someone would purchase, is objectionable. That someone spends ~$100 on jeans, which are worth far less once used isn't as much of an issue because the actual cost and how they are typically used.

Having said that, I more view cars as a "cost of doing business" for someone like myself who is a car person. I know exactly what I'm getting into and what I could lose. But what else do I want to spend the money on? Why work hard in life? Boosting savings and investments is important of course, but I can't drive my bank account. I can't use my bank account for a track day.

With regard to the question at hand, at the risk of getting banned from this sight, my M3 might be the beater! We just purchased a brand new Grand Cherokee for shared use, since my SO can't drive a manual and doesn't want to learn how. Selling the M3 for any SUV just wasn't in the cards. So now it sleeps and can be used exclusively for pleasure driving.

Actually none of that's totally true. I suppose we do have a beater car, which would be my SOs vehicle. She has a Hyundai Tucson which is a decent enough car, but it's been destroyed by our dog and it has 143k miles, so it's a great vehicle to take pretty much anywhere. I love it because other than maintenance, I really don't care about it. It used to be the only car that the both of us can drive, but now it's the car we use for everything we don't want to do with the Grand Cherokee.
My point exactly. If you lose 40% value on a refrigerator the day you bring it home from the appliance store, or lose 40% on a $50,000 3-Series the day you drive it home from the dealership, what's the difference... nothing. But no one realizes they loose 40% on the refrigerator because they keep it until it breaks and buy a new one. Cars, percentage-wise, are no different.
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      03-08-2019, 11:37 AM   #176
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Driving is the most enjoyable thing I do sober and outside the bedroom, why would I shit on that time by driving shit? Don't believe in daily drivers. If I own it, it's getting driven. If I had a Laferrari I'd drive it to work everyday.
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