M3 vs New Supra?

MrGatsby · 01-16-2019, 04:28 PM

With the unveil of the new Supra, there seems to be some controversy. Either you love it, or you hate it. Perhaps I am a bit biased, but I am the former.

Some may fault Toyota for partnering with BMW, however I stand by it to be brilliant. The only engine comparable to the 2JZ in modern cars is BMW's turbo inline 6. From its massive aftermarket support, strong internals, and general reliability with big power, I can't see Toyota developing anything better.

Beyond the engine, BMW, for decades has set the benchmark for road going race cars. To bring in the pinnacle of engineering to develop Toyota's flagship sports car will surely prove to be wise on the road, but also on the track.

While styling is subjective, I think it looks fantastic. In fact, it's one of the most beautiful modern cars in its price point.

The only major flaw I see is the lack of manual transmission. I know modern automatics are fast, efficient, and better in all aspects on paper... but that's just it; the original Supra wasn't that impressive on paper, rather what it represented in the hands of the enthusiast: a pure drivers car in all aspects. An homage to the original with a manual option would have been a smart move.

Now on to the big question, how will this car stand up against its old-twice-removed-distant-cousin, the E92 M3? Perhaps we will have to wait a few months to determine, but I am curious as to your thoughts.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...-what-we-know/

Dr. Dre · 01-16-2019, 05:47 PM

This isn't even a question. The car looks like somebody puked up dinner. Yes you could make tons of horsepower on the old Supra. However, beyond that was special about the car.

Did it ever win anything on the world stage?

Dave07997S · 01-16-2019, 06:36 PM

The thing is hideous

MrGatsby · 01-16-2019, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Dre

This isn't even a question. The car looks like somebody puked up dinner. Yes you could make tons of horsepower on the old Supra. However, beyond that was special about the car.

Did it ever win anything on the world stage?

Sure it didn't win the Nurburgring or the Isle of Man, but as an enthusiast, lap times are hardly my concern. The Supra was just cool. It was the M3 of its Japanese counterparts: the benchmark amongst its competitors.

As far as the looks, i'd have to disagree. I think it looks fantastic.

HadesM3 · 01-16-2019, 07:53 PM

I think the new Supra looks great online!

This forum is extremely biased, which is expected. An e92 parked next to a new Supra will not get a second glance. I am guessing it will be a better handling car as well. Then again, it's over 10 years newer and takes advantage of better design and manufacturing techniques.

randrews15 · 01-16-2019, 07:59 PM

I saw pictures online and I can't believe that it cleared any marketing tests. While there are some that will swoon over it, in my mind it doesn't compare to an M3. There's something special about an M that no Toyota can replica. 10 years from now people will likely not remember the new Supra, but they will remember an M.

ONEOF40 FS M3 · 01-16-2019, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGatsby

With the unveil of the new Supra, there seems to be some controversy. Either you love it, or you hate it. Perhaps I am a bit biased, but I am the former.

Some may fault Toyota for partnering with BMW, however I stand by it to be brilliant. The only engine comparable to the 2JZ in modern cars is BMW's turbo inline 6. From its massive aftermarket support, strong internals, and general reliability with big power, I can't see Toyota developing anything better.

Beyond the engine, BMW, for decades has set the benchmark for road going race cars. To bring in the pinnacle of engineering to develop Toyota's flagship sports car will surely prove to be wise on the road, but also on the track.

While styling is subjective, I think it looks fantastic. In fact, it's one of the most beautiful modern cars in its price point.

The only major flaw I see is the lack of manual transmission. I know modern automatics are fast, efficient, and better in all aspects on paper... but that's just it; the original Supra wasn't that impressive on paper, rather what it represented in the hands of the enthusiast: a pure drivers car in all aspects. An homage to the original with a manual option would have been a smart move.

Now on to the big question, how will this car stand up against its old-twice-removed-distant-cousin, the E92 M3? Perhaps we will have to wait a few months to determine, but I am curious as to your thoughts.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...-what-we-know/

S65 engine is jewel so M3

Montaver · 01-16-2019, 08:48 PM

I think the Supra looks great, particularly the rear quarter view with little ducktail spoiler. Its a proper sports car platform, significantly lighter than the M3, has a strong engine. I suspect it's going to be very impressive dynamically. Its basically a hardtop Z4 with a more aggressive setup. Whilst it has a Toyota badge its effectively all BMW.

All the swooning over the S65 is so overblown on this forum.

rdoctor · 01-16-2019, 09:09 PM

I saw this beautiful video before I had read a word about the new Supra and the first thing that came to mind was the Z4M. I kind of liked the Z4M with all of it's awkward body lines so I kind of like the 2020 Supra as well. The GR Supra is not really comparable to an M3 IMO. If you haven't seen this video you should check it out in all of it's 4K glory. And yes, Shmee is a goof ball so turn down the sound if he bugs you.

TTony · 01-16-2019, 11:00 PM

The one thing that greatly disappoints is that it is only available with a 10 spd automatic transmission. For this reason, it's a no go for me. Even the new GT500 has a DCT. If Toyota developed this based off the Z4, why couldn't they bring over a DCT or at least a MT?

kyrix1st · 01-17-2019, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTony

The one thing that greatly disappoints is that it is only available with a 10 spd automatic transmission. For this reason, it's a no go for me. Even the new GT500 has a DCT. If Toyota developed this based off the Z4, why couldn't they bring over a DCT or at least a MT?

It's basically a Z4 coupe with shitty interior. I wouldn't bother.

That being said it is likely going to be specced with MT at least in JP because demands are high for MT sports cars such that the M2 comp is only available in MT here because nobody bought the M2 with DCT..

Soden82 · 01-17-2019, 07:57 AM

I'd go with an M3. If I wanted something similar to the new Supra, I'd get a Z4M or a 240i instead

m3jala · 01-17-2019, 09:20 AM

I'd go with an m3 but then again that's why I am on the m3 board with my m3 and not on the Supra board with my Supra.

I don't like the rear of the Supra but the side shot with the wing looks stellar. Looks like a very interesting ride regardless.

M43S7RO · 01-17-2019, 11:57 AM

Toyota should have built the Supra from the ground up to have any chance with enthusiasts. This is a shit effort on the part of Toyota and imo shows that Toyota didn't care to put work into it. Looks are okay but the interior engine and interior resemblance to BMW kill this cars chance of being taken seriously... no thanks. Not to mention power is lacking...

I grew up admiring the 4th gen Supra and looked forward to the evolution of the 5th gen. This isnt even an evolution.

GTR is in another league compared to this and the Supra should have reset the bar for Japanese sports cars.

To answer the question, I'll take an E9x all day over this.

MrGatsby · 01-17-2019, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M43S7RO

Toyota should have built the Supra from the ground up to have any chance with enthusiasts. This is a shit effort on the part of Toyota and imo shows that Toyota didn't care to put work into it. Looks are okay but the interior engine and interior resemblance to BMW kill this cars chance of being taken seriously... no thanks. Not to mention power is lacking...

I grew up admiring the 4th gen Supra and looked forward to the evolution of the 5th gen. This isnt even an evolution.

GTR is in another league compared to this and the Supra should have reset the bar for Japanese sports cars.

To answer the question, I'll take an E9x all day over this.

I don't think it was laziness or lack of effort on Toyota's part. Quite the opposite actually: car companies rarely make money off of sports cars, in fact most lose money on them. Toyota makes it's money off of cheap econo cars. However Akio Toyoda is a huge motorsport fan. The board simply wouldn't have allowed him to build a Supra from the ground up. It would make no sense financially and would not have been done. However Akio wanted to bring a new Supra to production because of his genuine love for what it represents. He had to figure out a way to do it within budget. So he turned to BMW, in my slightly biased opinion, the best manufacturer of road going sports cars today, to get it done.

Not Sure · 01-17-2019, 12:45 PM

after all those years of stupefying hype and teasers, i cant believe how bad this thing turned out to be. a Z4 in drag with an anemic engine and 8-spd auto. and 2 seats so its not even practical! hard f*cking pass.

M43S7RO · 01-17-2019, 04:34 PM

https://jalopnik.com/what-we-found-w...sup-1831800550

Dr. Dre · 01-17-2019, 07:44 PM

Can't believe any thinks this is a good looking car. How much do you want to bet me he won't have that car very long.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdoctor

I saw this beautiful video before I had read a word about the new Supra and the first thing that came to mind was the Z4M. I kind of liked the Z4M with all of it's awkward body lines so I kind of like the 2020 Supra as well. The GR Supra is not really comparable to an M3 IMO. If you haven't seen this video you should check it out in all of it's 4K glory. And yes, Shmee is a goof ball so turn down the sound if he bugs you.

phantasticphan · 01-17-2019, 07:49 PM

Its like comparing apples to oranges, the e92 is at least 5 years old, it would be better to compare the 2020 supra to a 2020 M3...Either way, M3 all day over the new Supra (still a nice car though)

Richbot · 01-18-2019, 08:59 AM

this is a 2-seat sports car that even with all of the options available can just barely get to the base price of an E90 M3 from 10 years ago, and that's ignoring gas guzzler tax. The Zupra is, at heart, an M2 with a B58 and a bunch of weaght and wheelbase taken out. If you're cross-shopping a 2-seater with an M3 you need to look elsewhere, like the immense variety of p-car, jag, benz, vette, yada 2-seaters available for amazingly cheap with a few miles on them

The M2 is a good car, why wouldn't a lower M2 with 150lb and a foot of wheelbase removed be even better to drive? And between this and the "slightly modified benz SLC" Z4, I'll take this every time

The manual thing is a bummer, but the fastest drag supras were always the automatics anyway

y'all on some crack. It's a good car and we should be happy it got built at all when most of the development dollars are going to electrification and tall wagon. It's going to look like a spaceship on the road compared to most modern cars. The LC500 got tons of WTF's from people but they snap necks on the road. Toyota is doing a lot of things right these days

Here's what I don't "get". The Zupra is, in the end, a BMW underneath. Either BMW has seriously advanced the reliability of their newer engines, and the N55 was a good sign but still has some issues (mine was great until it pooped out an injector), or Toyota just said "F it, YOLO" to their reputation for reliability and figure people just won't care if it's a little broken sometimes. They would have had my attention with one of their corporate V6's that are so excellent and doing such a good job transitioning to sports-car duty in the Lotus

Personally I'm hoping for a $35k Celica Supra with the B48 but I doubt we'll get it here

TTony · 01-18-2019, 06:16 PM

Here is HRE's take on the new Supra. You must scroll thru them all, pic your favorite and then look at post #10. :-)

spazzyfry123 · 01-19-2019, 09:52 AM

I don't think it's a bad looking car. Like many said, it's a newer Z4 M Coupe in terms of styling, but I do think it's wonky to have the, arguably, most reliable badge with the majority of the actual parts coming from an expensive-to-maintain (and maintain often) badge. So either Toyota took a plunge and is hoping for the best, or BMW has stepped up reliability and stepped down the cost to play.

I, for one, hope to see this thing really succeed. It's nice to see something of this genre coming out in the year of cars becoming evermore appliance. In that same breath, I don't think it will unless it has a TON of soul.

To your question, I lean heavily towards the E9x M3 because it has nothing but soul. I think comparing the two is a wide spectrum with lots in between for a variety of reasons. I think it would be a better comparison to the E86 M, but we all know who will be the winner on that one...

01-16-2019, 04:28 PM	#1
MrGatsby Second Lieutenant 348 Rep 203 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: M town iTrader: (1) Garage List 2009 E92 M3 [0.00]	M3 vs New Supra? With the unveil of the new Supra, there seems to be some controversy. Either you love it, or you hate it. Perhaps I am a bit biased, but I am the former. Some may fault Toyota for partnering with BMW, however I stand by it to be brilliant. The only engine comparable to the 2JZ in modern cars is BMW's turbo inline 6. From its massive aftermarket support, strong internals, and general reliability with big power, I can't see Toyota developing anything better. Beyond the engine, BMW, for decades has set the benchmark for road going race cars. To bring in the pinnacle of engineering to develop Toyota's flagship sports car will surely prove to be wise on the road, but also on the track. While styling is subjective, I think it looks fantastic. In fact, it's one of the most beautiful modern cars in its price point. The only major flaw I see is the lack of manual transmission. I know modern automatics are fast, efficient, and better in all aspects on paper... but that's just it; the original Supra wasn't that impressive on paper, rather what it represented in the hands of the enthusiast: a pure drivers car in all aspects. An homage to the original with a manual option would have been a smart move. Now on to the big question, how will this car stand up against its old-twice-removed-distant-cousin, the E92 M3? Perhaps we will have to wait a few months to determine, but I am curious as to your thoughts. https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...-what-we-know/
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01-16-2019, 05:47 PM	#2
Dr. Dre the doctor 284 Rep 432 Posts Drives: E46 M3 Alpine White Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: CA, Bay Area iTrader: (0)	This isn't even a question. The car looks like somebody puked up dinner. Yes you could make tons of horsepower on the old Supra. However, beyond that was special about the car. Did it ever win anything on the world stage?
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01-16-2019, 06:36 PM	#3
Dave07997S Brigadier General 720 Rep 3,964 Posts Drives: 2020 Ford Mustang GT Join Date: May 2009 Location: El Segundo, CA iTrader: (1)	The thing is hideous
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01-16-2019, 07:53 PM	#5
HadesM3 Private First Class 135 Rep 195 Posts Drives: Pair of e90's Join Date: May 2016 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	I think the new Supra looks great online! This forum is extremely biased, which is expected. An e92 parked next to a new Supra will not get a second glance. I am guessing it will be a better handling car as well. Then again, it's over 10 years newer and takes advantage of better design and manufacturing techniques.
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01-16-2019, 07:59 PM	#6
randrews15 Lieutenant 284 Rep 552 Posts Drives: 2012 E93 M3 Le Mans Blue Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Parrish, FL iTrader: (1)	I saw pictures online and I can't believe that it cleared any marketing tests. While there are some that will swoon over it, in my mind it doesn't compare to an M3. There's something special about an M that no Toyota can replica. 10 years from now people will likely not remember the new Supra, but they will remember an M.
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01-16-2019, 08:48 PM	#8
Montaver Lieutenant Colonel 2146 Rep 1,647 Posts Drives: 718 GT4 & M340i LCI Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: NY iTrader: (0)	I think the Supra looks great, particularly the rear quarter view with little ducktail spoiler. Its a proper sports car platform, significantly lighter than the M3, has a strong engine. I suspect it's going to be very impressive dynamically. Its basically a hardtop Z4 with a more aggressive setup. Whilst it has a Toyota badge its effectively all BMW. All the swooning over the S65 is so overblown on this forum.
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01-16-2019, 09:09 PM	#9
rdoctor Lieutenant 168 Rep 548 Posts Drives: 991.1 GT3 Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: SC iTrader: (0) Garage List 2009 BMW e92 M3 [0.00]	I saw this beautiful video before I had read a word about the new Supra and the first thing that came to mind was the Z4M. I kind of liked the Z4M with all of it's awkward body lines so I kind of like the 2020 Supra as well. The GR Supra is not really comparable to an M3 IMO. If you haven't seen this video you should check it out in all of it's 4K glory. And yes, Shmee is a goof ball so turn down the sound if he bugs you. __________________ 991.1 GT3 SOLD: e92 M3 6MT, Jet Black/Black Dinan: Software Tune \| CF Intake \| Exhaust \| Pulley Kit \| Stage 1 Suspension \| Pedals /// BBS e88 18x9.5 et19; 18x10.5 et19 on PS4 265/285 /// Lux Angel Eyes
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01-16-2019, 11:00 PM	#10
TTony Lieutenant 271 Rep 553 Posts Drives: E92 M3, Macan Turbo, IS350 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Jose iTrader: (1)	The one thing that greatly disappoints is that it is only available with a 10 spd automatic transmission. For this reason, it's a no go for me. Even the new GT500 has a DCT. If Toyota developed this based off the Z4, why couldn't they bring over a DCT or at least a MT?
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01-17-2019, 07:57 AM	#12
Soden82 Major 477 Rep 1,194 Posts Drives: 2011 BMW M3 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Boston iTrader: (1) Garage List 2011 BMW M3 [0.00]	I'd go with an M3. If I wanted something similar to the new Supra, I'd get a Z4M or a 240i instead __________________ 2009 BMW 335i 6MT big single (eventually) For now... MHD tuned VRSF Race IC DCI ATM exhaust
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01-17-2019, 09:20 AM	#13
m3jala Captain 544 Rep 765 Posts Drives: Jet Black 2013 BMW M3 Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Tysons Corner, VA iTrader: (0)	I'd go with an m3 but then again that's why I am on the m3 board with my m3 and not on the Supra board with my Supra. I don't like the rear of the Supra but the side shot with the wing looks stellar. Looks like a very interesting ride regardless.
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01-17-2019, 11:57 AM	#14
M43S7RO Major 502 Rep 1,055 Posts Drives: Jerez Black E92 M3 Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Peoria, AZ iTrader: (13)	Toyota should have built the Supra from the ground up to have any chance with enthusiasts. This is a shit effort on the part of Toyota and imo shows that Toyota didn't care to put work into it. Looks are okay but the interior engine and interior resemblance to BMW kill this cars chance of being taken seriously... no thanks. Not to mention power is lacking... I grew up admiring the 4th gen Supra and looked forward to the evolution of the 5th gen. This isnt even an evolution. GTR is in another league compared to this and the Supra should have reset the bar for Japanese sports cars. To answer the question, I'll take an E9x all day over this.
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01-17-2019, 12:45 PM	#16
Not Sure Second Lieutenant 213 Rep 283 Posts Drives: 2013 E92 M3 Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Mich iTrader: (0)	after all those years of stupefying hype and teasers, i cant believe how bad this thing turned out to be. a Z4 in drag with an anemic engine and 8-spd auto. and 2 seats so its not even practical! hard fcking pass. Last edited by Not Sure; 01-17-2019 at 12:54 PM..*
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01-17-2019, 04:34 PM	#17
M43S7RO Major 502 Rep 1,055 Posts Drives: Jerez Black E92 M3 Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Peoria, AZ iTrader: (13)	https://jalopnik.com/what-we-found-w...sup-1831800550
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01-17-2019, 07:49 PM	#19
phantasticphan First Lieutenant 181 Rep 334 Posts Drives: e91 Touring, e92 M3 Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: San Diego, CA iTrader: (1)	Its like comparing apples to oranges, the e92 is at least 5 years old, it would be better to compare the 2020 supra to a 2020 M3...Either way, M3 all day over the new Supra (still a nice car though)
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01-18-2019, 08:59 AM	#20
Richbot Major General 2759 Rep 5,484 Posts Drives: Jerez Black E90 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: STL iTrader: (5)	this is a 2-seat sports car that even with all of the options available can just barely get to the base price of an E90 M3 from 10 years ago, and that's ignoring gas guzzler tax. The Zupra is, at heart, an M2 with a B58 and a bunch of weaght and wheelbase taken out. If you're cross-shopping a 2-seater with an M3 you need to look elsewhere, like the immense variety of p-car, jag, benz, vette, yada 2-seaters available for amazingly cheap with a few miles on them The M2 is a good car, why wouldn't a lower M2 with 150lb and a foot of wheelbase removed be even better to drive? And between this and the "slightly modified benz SLC" Z4, I'll take this every time The manual thing is a bummer, but the fastest drag supras were always the automatics anyway y'all on some crack. It's a good car and we should be happy it got built at all when most of the development dollars are going to electrification and tall wagon. It's going to look like a spaceship on the road compared to most modern cars. The LC500 got tons of WTF's from people but they snap necks on the road. Toyota is doing a lot of things right these days Here's what I don't "get". The Zupra is, in the end, a BMW underneath. Either BMW has seriously advanced the reliability of their newer engines, and the N55 was a good sign but still has some issues (mine was great until it pooped out an injector), or Toyota just said "F it, YOLO" to their reputation for reliability and figure people just won't care if it's a little broken sometimes. They would have had my attention with one of their corporate V6's that are so excellent and doing such a good job transitioning to sports-car duty in the Lotus Personally I'm hoping for a $35k Celica Supra with the B48 but I doubt we'll get it here __________________ Last edited by Richbot; 01-18-2019 at 09:18 AM..
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01-18-2019, 06:16 PM	#21
TTony Lieutenant 271 Rep 553 Posts Drives: E92 M3, Macan Turbo, IS350 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: San Jose iTrader: (1)	Here is HRE's take on the new Supra. You must scroll thru them all, pic your favorite and then look at post #10. :-)
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01-19-2019, 09:52 AM	#22
spazzyfry123 Lieutenant Colonel 4336 Rep 1,912 Posts Drives: Here and There Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: North Georgia Mountains iTrader: (1) Garage List 97 Toyota Land Cruiser [7.50] 16 Toyota Land Cruiser [10.00] 11 BMW E90 M3 Stripper [10.00]	I don't think it's a bad looking car. Like many said, it's a newer Z4 M Coupe in terms of styling, but I do think it's wonky to have the, arguably, most reliable badge with the majority of the actual parts coming from an expensive-to-maintain (and maintain often) badge. So either Toyota took a plunge and is hoping for the best, or BMW has stepped up reliability and stepped down the cost to play. I, for one, hope to see this thing really succeed. It's nice to see something of this genre coming out in the year of cars becoming evermore appliance. In that same breath, I don't think it will unless it has a TON of soul. To your question, I lean heavily towards the E9x M3 because it has nothing but soul. I think comparing the two is a wide spectrum with lots in between for a variety of reasons. I think it would be a better comparison to the E86 M, but we all know who will be the winner on that one...
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