Gintani twin turbo m3 e85 results!!! ***Dyno video added***

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by L4ces

That AA 6MT hauled against Drews M4. From the video, it seemed to have lost lead only during shifts and each time is came clawing back to make up for the shift (to me it means it was pulling harder) until it overtook Drews car at the top end (my interpretation from the video could be all wrong). If your G-TT is similar or better, then damn we have a lot to forward to on this platform and kudos again.

No doubt you can tell he's making more power, the DCT, TQ kept me slightly ahead most of the race, and then at the very end just at the cones/finish line his power curve showed, he was probably ahead by 1/4 -1/2 a car, had the race gone past the cones/finish, he'd pulled away, but the race was very close, probably the closest race of the day for me, besides the C7 Z06. If he was DCT he'd pulled away much earlier, not before / at the finish. For a boosted S65, 6MT, his car is a beast, and Jimmy can row the gears, no doubt about it. FWIW, my best was 166MPH from a dig, 163MPH from a roll.

My vids and results are here for comparisons sake -

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1324643

[Mspired]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

No doubt you can tell he's making more power, the DCT, TQ kept me slightly ahead most of the race, and then at the very end just at the cones/finish line his power curve showed, he was probably ahead by 1/4 -1/2 a car, had the race gone past the cones/finish, he'd pulled away, but the race was very close, probably the closest race of the day for me, besides the C7 Z06. If he was DCT he'd pulled away much earlier, not before / at the finish. For a boosted S65, 6MT, his car is a beast, and Jimmy can row the gears, no doubt about it. FWIW, my best was 166MPH from a dig, 163MPH from a roll.

My vids and results are here for comparisons sake -

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1324643

Based on your sig, you're at or around 556whp, and on stock turbos. Have you run against any other upgraded turbo M3/4 cars that are mid 600whp? Bc at your hp, your traps aren't much lower than a these more powerful E9x cars. So I wonder how a mid to high 600hp M3/4 would do.

[AWTT335i]

Originally Posted by Mspired

Based on your sig, you're at or around 556whp, and on stock turbos. Have you run against any other upgraded turbo M3/4 cars that are mid 600whp? Bc at your hp, your traps aren't much lower than a these more powerful E9x cars. So I wonder how a mid to high 600hp M3/4 would do.

Its really hard to tell with these 1/2 mile races since people have different starting speeds, some people do digs, etcetera. The Fuel-it! M4 did the following:

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by AWTT335i

Its really hard to tell with these 1/2 mile races since people have different starting speeds, some people do digs, etcetera. The Fuel-it! M4 did the following:

It's really not hard to tell, you either start from a dig or a roll. NFZ the 1/2 mile starts at the cones, so unless you move up to the cones and stop, (which no one does) then go from a dig there, it's not a true standing 1/2 mile, it's more of a rolling start 1/2 mile. If you go from the back, and run from a dig, your traps will usually be higher.

At Shift-S3ctor when you start from a dig at the back of the runway, it's a true standing 1/2 mile, if you go from a 40-50 roll and go WOT at the cones, it will be slower. The only thing one shouldn't do is compare traps from different events, or compare dig starts to rolling starts, people should be honest and clarify that. IMHO, the VAST majority of people who attend these events know this, there's no trickery here, and the vast majority also do runs from a dig and do runs from a roll, it's not like you can get up to 100 MPH before you hit the cones, lol. There was not a huge difference in my traps from a dig and a roll, my roll starts were 45-50 MPH starts, at NFZ 166 vs 163MPH. Shift-Sector it was 157 MPH from a dig, and 153 MPH from 40-50 roll.

Regardless some people like to get a good trap, others want to see how their car does from a dig or rolling start against other cars, and see who hits the finish line first.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by Mspired

Based on your sig, you're at or around 556whp, and on stock turbos. Have you run against any other upgraded turbo M3/4 cars that are mid 600whp? Bc at your hp, your traps aren't much lower than a these more powerful E9x cars. So I wonder how a mid to high 600hp M3/4 would do.

I ran them at another event, they pulled of course, I hung in there down low but the fuel-it car was testing. Now the Fuel-it M4 would destroy me, that car is dialed in, and probably will only get faster. We should have lined up so you guys could see the difference.

The Fuel-it M4 would easily pull Lucas' or Jimmy's E92 6MT's IMHO, with the setups they have now. If Lucas turned it up, and could get the power down, he'd do well and Jimmy may come back with something next time, but hard for a 6MT to beat the S55 DCT with a pretty consistent 700+whp power band during the entire 1/2 mile run.

[Solo_M_Tech]

I read through this post and I only have 1 question..... OP..... did you take the time to measure or calculate the dynamic compression ratio and dynamic cylinder pressures at 11 psi of boost?

Im sure the kit itself will hold up very well, but the engine, I doubt will have any real long term serviceability. It may last a few thousand miles, but I can imagine an engine build with lower CR pistons and upgraded connecting rods in its near future. (Speculation and impressions)

[Lucrecio84]

Originally Posted by Uber///Madd

I read through this post and I only have 1 question..... OP..... did you take the time to measure or calculate the dynamic compression ratio and dynamic cylinder pressures at 11 psi of boost?

Im sure the kit itself will hold up very well, but the engine, I doubt will have any real long term serviceability. It may last a few thousand miles, but I can imagine an engine build with lower CR pistons and upgraded connecting rods in its near future. (Speculation and impressions)

No I didn't measure any of those things. With your predictions being accurate for a build in the near future, we're just seeing how things go, although running e85 does allow for much higher tolerances. If you're looking for motor longevity then you can always push less boost and still get nice numbers. It was at my request to push the motor like this.

[GabeS]

Originally Posted by Uber///Madd

I read through this post and I only have 1 question..... OP..... did you take the time to measure or calculate the dynamic compression ratio and dynamic cylinder pressures at 11 psi of boost?

Im sure the kit itself will hold up very well, but the engine, I doubt will have any real long term serviceability. It may last a few thousand miles, but I can imagine an engine build with lower CR pistons and upgraded connecting rods in its near future. (Speculation and impressions)

Really? you want the OP to do that? you assume he is some master technician just because he paid a shop to install a turbo kit on his car?
It's pretty much like a test mule, time will tell how well it holds up and if there are issues they will most likely be addressed and lets say they realize the internals don't handle 11psi well I am sure they will recommend upgraded rods for the next build. you cant know everything, if you could shops would never have failed motors.

relax on the nit-pickiness.

[Solo_M_Tech]

Originally Posted by GabeS

Really? you want the OP to do that? you assume he is some master technician just because he paid a shop to install a turbo kit on his car?
It's pretty much like a test mule, time will tell how well it holds up and if there are issues they will most likely be addressed and lets say they realize the internals don't handle 11psi well I am sure they will recommend upgraded rods for the next build. you cant know everything, if you could shops would never have failed motors.

relax on the nit-pickiness.

1. Not being picky.
2. Dynamic compression and dynamic cylinder pressure calculations are extremely important information when boosting an NA engine with high factory compression.
3. I thought the OP was the one who built and tested the kit.
4. I'm not attempting to be negative here. Quite the opposite. If the kits engineer made these calculations and found that the factory rotating assembly was sufficiently strong enough to handle the increased pressures, it would ease the minds of those who think the engine is gonna die soon. That is all.
5. My "prediction" is solely speculation and based on nothing, since we don't have any real data to draw conclusions from. ?

[Weyne Masters]

No problems with 11 PSI and ethanol I am tuning. With this and 95 AKI Fuel E-30 more than 10,000 miles Tina off drags ,no issue!
The secret is low IAT and Fuel

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by Weyne Masters

No problems with 11 PSI and ethanol I am tuning. With this and 95 AKI Fuel E-30 more than 10,000 miles Tina off drags ,no issue!
The secret is low IAT and Fuel

How much power do you make?

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by Weyne Masters

No problems with 11 PSI and ethanol I am tuning. With this and 95 AKI Fuel E-30 more than 10,000 miles Tina off drags ,no issue!
The secret is low IAT and Fuel

11 psi from a centrifugal supercharger that makes 11 psi only at redline and makes only about 3 psi at 4150 rpm cannot be compared to a twin turbo car running 11 psi that makes 11 psi at 4150 rpm in terms of stress on the motor, although to fully analyze we would need to know that the turbos and their total cfm is at least comparable. In general, centrifugal is much less stressful than turbo due to the boost curve. With good wastegating and electronic boost control, turbo boost can be brought in more gradually to preserve a motor.

[Weyne Masters]

640 WHP,About stress I do agree ,in low RPM isn't to much as Turbos,However the nice party is Killer chiler and 5 Gl Ice trunk tank!
Don't forget to change yours Sparks and fuel injectors

[GabeS]

Originally Posted by Uber///Madd

1. Not being picky.
2. Dynamic compression and dynamic cylinder pressure calculations are extremely important information when boosting an NA engine with high factory compression.
3. I thought the OP was the one who built and tested the kit.
4. I'm not attempting to be negative here. Quite the opposite. If the kits engineer made these calculations and found that the factory rotating assembly was sufficiently strong enough to handle the increased pressures, it would ease the minds of those who think the engine is gonna die soon. That is all.
5. My "prediction" is solely speculation and based on nothing, since we don't have any real data to draw conclusions from. ?

Gintani built it, I assume they did all those checks during tuning. I thought you knew they built it, haha

[Solo_M_Tech]

Originally Posted by GabeS

Gintani built it, I assume they did all those checks during tuning. I thought you knew they built it, haha

I try to avoid assuming any company spends any time doing real research and development. Most of the aftermarket companies do trial and error for new things like this and adapt and change the kit to better fit/function as failures happen. To me that's unacceptable and too much risk. Once this kit clears 50k miles of trouble free use, and they sell and install 50 kits that equal the that reliability standard, I'll consider it a success. Again, simply my opinions.

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by Uber///Madd

I try to avoid assuming any company spends any time doing real research and development. Most of the aftermarket companies do trial and error for new things like this and adapt and change the kit to better fit/function as failures happen. To me that's unacceptable and too much risk. Once this kit clears 50k miles of trouble free use, and they sell and install 50 kits that equal the that reliability standard, I'll consider it a success. Again, simply my opinions.

I'm pretty sure on stock comp anything around 9-10psi there's to much cylinder pressure

[Solo_M_Tech]

Originally Posted by OM VT3

I'm pretty sure on stock comp anything around 9-10psi there's to much cylinder pressure

11 psi at 3500 rpm's affects the engine completely differently than 11 psi at 8500 rpm's. There is significantly more pressure and load on the engine internals. You can't just look at boost numbers and say " Oh well there are Supercharged S65's with 11 psi of boost so it will be ok". It's not apples to apples and people don't understand that from an engineering perspective. A piston will crack or a connecting rod will bend/brake from the extremely high cylinder pressures at lower rpms.

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

11 psi from a centrifugal supercharger that makes 11 psi only at redline and makes only about 3 psi at 4150 rpm cannot be compared to a twin turbo car running 11 psi that makes 11 psi at 4150 rpm in terms of stress on the motor, although to fully analyze we would need to know that the turbos and their total cfm is at least comparable. In general, centrifugal is much less stressful than turbo due to the boost curve. With good wastegating and electronic boost control, turbo boost can be brought in more gradually to preserve a motor.

let me know when you start seeing people with sc cars start races from 4100rpm lol... even from out the whole you are launching at 5500rpm with sticky tires. Boost isn't what kills motors it's cylinder temps with pressure. A turbo car in main instances with turbos as large as he is using have lower IAT. People really don't give the s65 enough credit. when you spread 11psi across 8 cylinders its really not as stress full as it sounds.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

let me know when you start seeing people with sc cars start races from 4100rpm lol... even from out the whole you are launching at 5500rpm with sticky tires. Boost isn't what kills motors it's cylinder temps with pressure. A turbo car in main instances with turbos as large as he is using have lower IAT. People really don't give the s65 enough credit. when you spread 11psi across 8 cylinders its really not as stress full as it sounds.

I think the 11 psi worth of cylinder pressure would exist in each of the 8 cylinders. The point is not at what rpm the engine will be in a race, but rather that the 11 psi turbo will make 3 times the centrifugal's boost at 4000 rpm and this is more stressful. The turbo will make the boost during normal driving. It will make much more torque. You don't need to run the engine to redline to make power. Just put your foot down in gear and boost will come. With the turbo, you will be making the 11 psi at 4000 rpm. With the supercharger, you never will because you cannot. You will make the 11 psi only briefly, at redline. The rest of the time, you are making much less boost. Its not just an IAT thing. Its a cylinder pressure thing, which is a torque thing, which is a rod bending thing.

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I think the 11 psi worth of cylinder pressure would exist in each of the 8 cylinders. The point is not at what rpm the engine will be in a race, but rather that the 11 psi turbo will make 3 times the centrifugal's boost at 4000 rpm and this is more stressful. The turbo will make the boost during normal driving. It will make much more torque. You don't need to run the engine to redline to make power. Just put your foot down in gear and boost will come. With the turbo, you will be making the 11 psi at 4000 rpm. With the supercharger, you never will because you cannot. You will make the 11 psi only briefly, at redline. The rest of the time, you are making much less boost. Its not just an IAT thing. Its a cylinder pressure thing, which is a torque thing, which is a rod bending thing.

rods bending come from things other than tq. I.e. Detonation, cylinder temps which are also driven byt AIT and timing. If you are using a DCT car a 11PSI at 8k will be seen during the whole race after the first shift. So you in fact will see that stress alot more than people realize. But there is a nice trade off. with a turbo setup the crank no longer has tension on it for the blower. the car no longer has parasitic lost at the crank. I don't see him having much issue at all with the car.

[L4ces]

Will there be videos from shiftsector? I am curious to hear it, see it run etc.

[Pro-AM3]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

let me know when you start seeing people with sc cars start races from 4100rpm lol... even from out the whole you are launching at 5500rpm with sticky tires. Boost isn't what kills motors it's cylinder temps with pressure. A turbo car in main instances with turbos as large as he is using have lower IAT. People really don't give the s65 enough credit. when you spread 11psi across 8 cylinders its really not as stress full as it sounds.

Are you serious with those statements?