|
|
|
|
Post Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
03-23-2011, 09:48 AM | #67 |
Colonel
87
Rep 2,464
Posts |
They discontinue them because no one buys them.
__________________
2011 MINI Cooper S
previous cars: E92 M3, Z4MC, Z4 Roadster, E36 328 Sedan |
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2011, 09:59 AM | #68 | |
Lieutenant
26
Rep 580
Posts |
Quote:
I've said it before but its apropos here as well . . . the new M5 will provide a good barometer of M's real commitment to weight management. If the new M5 is heavier than the current series 5er and heavier than the E60 M5, then all of this fanfare over an "engineering concept" is just grandstanding. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2011, 10:31 AM | #69 | |
Veni Vidi Vici
89
Rep 2,750
Posts
Drives: '11 JB/BBe-6sp-e90
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Macungie PA
iTrader: (0)
Garage List 2011 e90 M3-Sold [8.50]
2003 RS6 - Sold [0.00] 2009 e90 M3 - Gone [0.00] 2003 M3 SOLD [0.00] old 2002 [10.00] |
Quote:
__________________
Dinan compliment of stuff plus PF rotors and RG63s. Enough for now. Why, yes. I am an abrasive bastard. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2011, 11:29 AM | #70 |
Colonel
87
Rep 2,464
Posts |
Agreed. I loved my Z4M. But I know BMW could've made the Z4 M a much much better car. But they choose not to. I guess otherwise it would be faster than E9x M3. Also what would be the point? They would spent much more money in R&D, but still not sell as much..
__________________
2011 MINI Cooper S
previous cars: E92 M3, Z4MC, Z4 Roadster, E36 328 Sedan |
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2011, 11:44 AM | #71 |
Lieutenant Colonel
99
Rep 1,575
Posts |
Hey guys, we are all enthusiasts here and are passionate about cars and our BMWs. But please, try not to bash on SCOTT who shares a world of inside information with us. It may not be information you like, but having a BMW insider forum member is awesome. Let's keep it civilized and not shoot the messenger... Especially when he's telling us they are trying to make things lighter lol.
Fans: "Too heavyyyy!!" BMW: "good news, we're working on weight reduction thru CF and other materials. We'll show you soon" Fans: "lies! You don't know shit about light weight! How dare you try to cater to our needs! Boo!!!"
__________________
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2011, 11:49 AM | #72 | |
Colonel
87
Rep 2,464
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
2011 MINI Cooper S
previous cars: E92 M3, Z4MC, Z4 Roadster, E36 328 Sedan |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2011, 11:57 AM | #73 | |
Major
70
Rep 1,008
Posts |
Quote:
they are two completely different cars anyways....designed for different purposes...the E92 is a jack of all trades....the vette is a focused sports car...it doesnt have to share its chasis with a 2L diesel economy/sport/lux sedan.
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2011, 01:21 PM | #74 |
Brigadier General
3835
Rep 4,668
Posts
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2011, 01:22 PM | #75 |
Captain
30
Rep 679
Posts |
I want to see a lightweight composite frame (spaceframe?) !!
__________________
335 - Öhlins//Swift//M3 front suspension//M3 subframe bushes//Quaife LSD//AR Design Catless//Forge Intercooler//Alcon BBK//Goodridge//AFE//RPI//Fenders - SOLD M4-Mineral Gray/Full Shakir Orange/DCT/M Ceramic/M Adaptive Susp. |
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2011, 01:28 PM | #76 |
Lieutenant
86
Rep 541
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2011, 01:49 PM | #77 |
Colonel
87
Rep 2,464
Posts |
Affordable, I guess, is not the right word. I meant it is over priced I got a decent deal and all, but even than it is over priced. It is more like a 50k msrp car than a 58k.
__________________
2011 MINI Cooper S
previous cars: E92 M3, Z4MC, Z4 Roadster, E36 328 Sedan |
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2011, 02:06 PM | #78 | |
Major General
417
Rep 6,968
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
- There's nothing in my pocket other than knives and lint
Last edited by Robert; 03-23-2011 at 03:31 PM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2011, 03:39 PM | #80 | |
1M advocate
214
Rep 878
Posts |
Quote:
1. Smaller cars, the 3 series has become way too large, so return it back to the size of the the e36 or e46. Lower cost, increased performance & efficiency. 2. More aluminum, competitors are offering similar models at similar prices with an increased amount of aluminum structure & components. Offers the possibility of a generous weight loss vs steel without the increased costs of composites. 3. Quit sharing chassis & major components between models, there is no reason for the f10 5 series to weigh 400 odd pounds more than the e60 5 series & the new mercedes E class. This weight gain is purely down to the f10 being based on f01 7 series chassis. 4. No fully electronic power steering. It has no feel and doesn't even provide a huge gain in efficiency anyways.
__________________
2012 BMW S1000RR
2011 BMW M3 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2011, 04:16 PM | #81 | |
Second Lieutenant
3
Rep 256
Posts |
Quote:
so let's consider each aspect: faster, lighter, cheaper faster: how about a GT-R? though not lighter, i don't think the enthusiasts would cry much if it was a bmw invention. or maybe a corvette. or a cayman S (while underpowered, porsche could have easily put a more powerful engine in it if it weren't for the 911), or even a mustang GT (pains me to even mention it in the same sentence). faster is typically a pretty simple equation: more power, less weight. power is easy to come by, especially with a turbo setup, so this brings us to weight... lighter: did you know that even a prius only weighs 3042lbs?! yes, it's only got a 4 cylinder engine in it, but it has a bunch of batteries packed into it! somehow, i don't think they built that car out of carbon fiber/exotic materials to get the weight down on it and believe me, that car has a TON of safety gizmos in it! how about a corvette (3200lbs), or let's consider that a cayman S only weighs 2976 lbs and, as far as i know, it's not built of anything particularly special and even if it was, we're talking about a 500lbs difference over the M3 for not much more money!!! the cayman also has a bunch of safety features along with creature comforts you would expect from a bmw. the reason the cayman S is so expensive is because you're paying for the special porsche emblem on the car...bringing us to price. cheaper: in my opinion the M3 is definitely not cheap, but let's assume that its current price is to be considered "cheap". cars like the GT-R are in that price range...need i say more? (remember the GT-R comes with a lot of standard features from the factory, unlike the M3). how about the CTS-V, or again the mustang GT that seriously undercuts the M3's price tag. what i'm trying to convey is that it's a conscious choice by bmw to limit its product direction. they certainly have the ability to build what their enthusiasts want so badly, but they choose to build something that merely "keeps up with the competition", barely beating it in most cases, while increasing sales, and relying on getting people in the door by holding that prestigious badge in front of your face.
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2011, 04:32 PM | #82 | |
Colonel
87
Rep 2,464
Posts |
Quote:
Corvette has a lot of plastic on it, and lack rear seats. Cayman is much smaller than M3, and does not have back seats.. It is not a fair comparison. If you stretch the Cayman and put 2 more seats at the back, the difference will be much less. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to defend BMW. But I want to keep this fair. I believe without too much effort, BMW would've make the M3 100-150lbs lighter. And that would be more than enough.
__________________
2011 MINI Cooper S
previous cars: E92 M3, Z4MC, Z4 Roadster, E36 328 Sedan |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2011, 04:38 PM | #83 |
Private First Class
5
Rep 107
Posts |
Bottom line is that is that BMW M builds impressive sedans and coupes, they are not sports cars, and while they can run in the company of more dedicated machinery, they are based on mass production cars, practical yet capable of competitive speed and handling. That said they dropped the ball on the 1M, since they will build so few it would have been great to make a statement with a really lightweight car with a special engine, instead they cut corners to make it profitable for the price point they wanted. Of course it's a business but I have a feeling the Nissan GT-R may be a statement car and doesn't leave much of a profit if any at it's price point. BMW could have built a true halo car to show it can still build very light and quick cars with decent gas mileage and leading edge of technology. I would have made it for about $65k, with the same production numbers, given it a 2990 lbs weight and no less than 380 hp, and named it M-CSL a true original. Yes it would cannibalize a few M sales but would set up the next gen 1M as a mini version with a lower price point to make some profit. But then I don't run the M Division.
__________________
12' 135i DCT, Convertible, Triple black, Nav, Apps, BMW Shadow Grilles, LCD interior lighting, BMW PE, Michelin PSS.
06' M Roadster, SMB/Red, AA Tune, K&N, Remus Exhaust, ZHP shift knob, Hyperblack M Rims. 09' BMW 328i Touring, Monaco Blue, Panoramic roof, Nav. |
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2011, 04:44 PM | #84 | |
Colonel
87
Rep 2,464
Posts |
Quote:
Hey if you ever run for "the president of M divison", you'll have my vote
__________________
2011 MINI Cooper S
previous cars: E92 M3, Z4MC, Z4 Roadster, E36 328 Sedan |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2011, 04:57 PM | #85 | |
Second Lieutenant
3
Rep 256
Posts |
Quote:
i could probably list more, but i assume this is good enough. i definitely agree on the 100-150lbs lighter M3. that alone would have made a HUGE difference.
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2011, 05:29 PM | #86 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
99
Rep 1,575
Posts |
Quote:
Marketing or not, he's one of the VERY few members here who contribute more than just an opinion.
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2011, 05:33 PM | #87 | |
Colonel
87
Rep 2,464
Posts |
Quote:
WRX STI is again smaller car. But yes, all these examples suggest that BMW should be able to make M3 100-150lbs lighter.
__________________
2011 MINI Cooper S
previous cars: E92 M3, Z4MC, Z4 Roadster, E36 328 Sedan |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-23-2011, 06:23 PM | #88 | |
Major General
417
Rep 6,968
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
- There's nothing in my pocket other than knives and lint
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|