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      01-25-2021, 08:42 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Might explain why some run race spec 40 grade. This demo car sees around 117C (Racelogic CAN data) doing hot laps although on A052.

Once you move up from A052 temp goes up as well.

If the coolers are all stock you'll get to 4/4 quickly on a completely stock engine running slicks

The E90 has all the radiators swapped to do88 and the epic diverter valve, but is still running 50/50 water/coolant mix.
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      08-31-2021, 11:26 AM   #244
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Digging through the archives to see your post on cheap E9xM + flat plane and you flipped the light bulb on it might as well have been a strobe light - had to circle back to your stroker build.

Anything new to report on your kit, Danny?
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      08-31-2021, 01:12 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzyfry123 View Post
Digging through the archives to see your post on cheap E9xM + flat plane and you flipped the light bulb on it might as well have been a strobe light - had to circle back to your stroker build.

Anything new to report on your kit, Danny?
Tons of track days put on it, no issues with cooling.

Unfortunately I do not think a stroker is a long term reliable solution for heavy track use. I'm currently running a Dinan stroker that is warrantied for two years.

After this season I will turn the E90 into a street car and swap engines with the E92. In the E92 the stroker will last forever as it is a garage queen.

It is hard to describe the incredible experience of a stroker S65. The quality of the feedback, the noise, the performance, is fantastic. All the good things of the stock S65 but with another 100whp everywhere, it is extremely noticeable.
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      08-31-2021, 01:41 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Tons of track days put on it, no issues with cooling.

Unfortunately I do not think a stroker is a long term reliable solution for heavy track use. I'm currently running a Dinan stroker that is warrantied for two years.

After this season I will turn the E90 into a street car and swap engines with the E92. In the E92 the stroker will last forever as it is a garage queen.

It is hard to describe the incredible experience of a stroker S65. The quality of the feedback, the noise, the performance, is fantastic. All the good things of the stock S65 but with another 100whp everywhere, it is extremely noticeable.
I am disheartened to hear potential reliability concerns. What's the Achille's Heel in the recipe?

I'm still wanting to scratch the S65 itch again; I keep poking my head into these threads...Just keep getting more itchy for some reason
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      08-31-2021, 02:45 PM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzyfry123 View Post
I am disheartened to hear potential reliability concerns. What's the Achille's Heel in the recipe?

I'm still wanting to scratch the S65 itch again; I keep poking my head into these threads...Just keep getting more itchy for some reason
I'm not sure. It's hard to understand how engines that receive all kinds of beautiful goodies like Carillo racing rods, Mahle Motorsport pistons etc are significantly less reliable than a stock engine.

Hopefully we reach a breakthrough with the 292 cams on 4.0L engines, that would be the ultimate setup that maintains street reliability and gives you some more juice!
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      08-31-2021, 03:12 PM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I'm not sure. It's hard to understand how engines that receive all kinds of beautiful goodies like Carillo racing rods, Mahle Motorsport pistons etc are significantly less reliable than a stock engine.

Hopefully we reach a breakthrough with the 292 cams on 4.0L engines, that would be the ultimate setup that maintains street reliability and gives you some more juice!
I have to assume the 292 barrier weighs heavily on the ability to tune, but I agree!

Regardless, I watched your WGI in-car a few times now. That stroker is intoxicating...
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      08-31-2021, 03:16 PM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spazzyfry123 View Post
I have to assume the 292 barrier weighs heavily on the ability to tune, but I agree!

Regardless, I watched your WGI in-car a few times now. That stroker is intoxicating...
Exactly, the tune is the barrier. But it's being worked on by an actual tuner and will be solved before long.

If we can get +410whp dynojet, that is plenty!
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      08-31-2021, 03:26 PM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Tons of track days put on it, no issues with cooling.

Unfortunately I do not think a stroker is a long term reliable solution for heavy track use. I'm currently running a Dinan stroker that is warrantied for two years.

After this season I will turn the E90 into a street car and swap engines with the E92. In the E92 the stroker will last forever as it is a garage queen.

It is hard to describe the incredible experience of a stroker S65. The quality of the feedback, the noise, the performance, is fantastic. All the good things of the stock S65 but with another 100whp everywhere, it is extremely noticeable.
i would have to agree with Shadow here,

like most built engines, you should be doing a once a year inspection on it to ensure longevity, especially as a track and daily. that just doubles the "miles". i will be taking my oil pan off this year to inspect the bearings, cylinder side wall, and etc.
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      02-06-2022, 05:51 PM   #251
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This kit is absolutely awesome! Love what you’ve done! You’ve probably been asked this before here but who provided the stroker kit for this car? Very limited around the internets only a few folks but your setup looks amazing!
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      02-06-2022, 08:48 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by Striker73 View Post
This kit is absolutely awesome! Love what you’ve done! You’ve probably been asked this before here but who provided the stroker kit for this car? Very limited around the internets only a few folks but your setup looks amazing!
The last version is from Carbahn, Steve Dinan's company. Pretty modified with head work, 292 cams and supporting mods, BimmerWorld Long Tube headers, enlarged throttle bodies, bigger injectors, Karbonius intake, etc.

I just got it swapped into my street E92, 6MT, where it will live a long and glorious life!
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      02-10-2022, 02:24 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker73 View Post
This kit is absolutely awesome! Love what you've done! You've probably been asked this before here but who provided the stroker kit for this car? Very limited around the internets only a few folks but your setup looks amazing!
The last version is from Carbahn, Steve Dinan's company. Pretty modified with head work, 292 cams and supporting mods, BimmerWorld Long Tube headers, enlarged throttle bodies, bigger injectors, Karbonius intake, etc.

I just got it swapped into my street E92, 6MT, where it will live a long and glorious life!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker73 View Post
This kit is absolutely awesome! Love what you've done! You've probably been asked this before here but who provided the stroker kit for this car? Very limited around the internets only a few folks but your setup looks amazing!
The last version is from Carbahn, Steve Dinan's company. Pretty modified with head work, 292 cams and supporting mods, BimmerWorld Long Tube headers, enlarged throttle bodies, bigger injectors, Karbonius intake, etc.

I just got it swapped into my street E92, 6MT, where it will live a long and glorious life!

Thanks for getting back! That's what I'm thinking of but considering to put that kind of a setup on a DCT and leave the 6MT alone 🤣 not touching that one!

That's a lot of work!! Injectors, throttle bodies and stuff… there's never a "plug & play" kit 🤣🤣
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      02-10-2022, 05:49 PM   #254
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      02-14-2022, 05:35 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
The last version is from Carbahn, Steve Dinan's company. Pretty modified with head work, 292 cams and supporting mods, BimmerWorld Long Tube headers, enlarged throttle bodies, bigger injectors, Karbonius intake, etc.

I just got it swapped into my street E92, 6MT, where it will live a long and glorious life!
Sorry if this is a touchy subject but did you lose your original stroker motor before going with the Carbahn motor?

I've been dreaming of a stroker S65 since before I even owned one, this thread and more to the point, the in-car footage of you ripping it up at the 'Glen is the reason so I'm a bit put off by hearing this.
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      02-15-2022, 09:52 AM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darren p. View Post
Sorry if this is a touchy subject but did you lose your original stroker motor before going with the Carbahn motor?

I've been dreaming of a stroker S65 since before I even owned one, this thread and more to the point, the in-car footage of you ripping it up at the 'Glen is the reason so I'm a bit put off by hearing this.
Here's the full story

The first engine was built with Mahle Motorsport forged pistons. Really nice parts. The engine builder had built quite a few 'VT3' supercharged engines that use Mahle Motorsport pistons as well but in the low compression version. My confidence in this builder is 100% to this day, but the ring topic was/is a dirty little secret
The rings Mahle ships with low and high compression versions are different.

Supporting mods for all the strokers are:
292 cams with special springs and Ti retainers
Karbonius airbox
BimmerWorld LT headers and matching xpipe
Tuned by a noncommercial tuner with no safeties changed or disabled

Stroker1 ran well and made lots of power. It consumed oil from the beginning and after the break in it continued consuming oil. It got to around 1qt/150 miles. Oddly, at the track it didn't consume much more than average oil but putting around the highway it was eating 1qt/150 miles.
After a track season we felt uneasy with that level of oil consumption and spoke with Steve Dinan. He said the Mahle rings did not work, to send it to him and they would rebuilt it for ~$15k.

Stroker2 ended up costing $36k although Stroker1 already had the headwork, 292 cams/supporting mods. This was needed to get the Carbahn warranty, which lasts 2 years/24k miles and is only valid if you do not 'race' the car, HPDEs are covered. They would only warranty if they used their crank, rods and pistons.
We installed Stroker2 in the car.
Stroker2 lasted less than 10 pulls on the dyno and then blew up. It was removed from the car, sent to Carbahn for diagnostics. Carbahn determined a rod bolt was improperly fastened and had let loose and warrantied the engine. A month later I received a new stroker, Stroker3.

Stroker3 is in the car. So far, +$75k in strokers. The warranty is nice and I'm impressed they ate such a large cost. Of course every time an engine goes in and out it's $5k

At the track, the stroker's performance is impressive, generating the same acceleration curves for 30 min than a 625 supercharger can muster for two laps. Perfect throttle control, etc. Driving it with an F8X back to back reminds you of the good things of NA engines, and in a straight line at the track the stroker is faster than the M4 GTS!
On the street, the stroker's feel is unbeatable. Breaking in one of these strokers provides more joy than the M4 GTS will ever provide.

Still, the long term reliability is a problem if used for the track. With hard track use you're looking at a rebuild every 2 seasons. I'd trust the Carbahn stroker to last a really long time on the street.

Due to the long term track use stroker reliability, we have opted to buy two M4 GTS for the 2022+ season and have swapped the stroker engine into our street 6MT E92 where it will live a long life as a garage queen. The E90 M3 will be moved to stock and live as a daily driver.

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 02-16-2022 at 02:06 PM..
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      02-15-2022, 05:57 PM   #257
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Sad to hear you're no longer gonna campaign the E9x platform.
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      02-15-2022, 06:51 PM   #258
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Sad to hear you're no longer gonna campaign the E9x platform.
That also makes us sad. Even more than the stroker situation, what forced our hand is the GTMore project Bimmerworld is doing. Think E9X with Schrimer but on steroids for the F8X. It's too good to pass up on.

We'll still have two E9Xs
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      02-17-2022, 02:58 AM   #259
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I love seeing people do cams in the s65
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      02-17-2022, 08:45 AM   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Here's the full story...
Wow, thanks for sharing. Hell of a journey so far, must have been absolutely heartbreaking watching engine 2 eat itself on the dyno. Glad to hear Carbahn stood behind their work, that is reassuring to hear. I'm really impressed with Steve Dinan after watching him on the Smoking Tire podcast. Did you have the low compression rings instead of the high compression rings you needed or did you mean neither of them work and Carbahn uses something different?

I'm curious about the cost of #2 though as well. You mentioned you needed to use their crank, rods and pistons for the warranty but did you also need to use their top end parts as well? That cost would suggest you did. Also, was #3 a whole new long block or was anything salvageable?

Last question, are you still using Jordon or is this "noncommercial" tuner someone new? You made mention previously about finding a tuner to get the cams/headers/Karbonius combo perfected and just curious who that is as I'll need to find someone sooner than later for that setup...albeit on a 4.0 until I'm ready to step up to a stroker.

Thanks again for sharing!
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      02-17-2022, 09:12 AM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darren p. View Post
Wow, thanks for sharing. Hell of a journey so far, must have been absolutely heartbreaking watching engine 2 eat itself on the dyno. Glad to hear Carbahn stood behind their work, that is reassuring to hear. I'm really impressed with Steve Dinan after watching him on the Smoking Tire podcast. Did you have the low compression rings instead of the high compression rings you needed or did you mean neither of them work and Carbahn uses something different?

I'm curious about the cost of #2 though as well. You mentioned you needed to use their crank, rods and pistons for the warranty but did you also need to use their top end parts as well? That cost would suggest you did. Also, was #3 a whole new long block or was anything salvageable?

Last question, are you still using Jordon or is this "noncommercial" tuner someone new? You made mention previously about finding a tuner to get the cams/headers/Karbonius combo perfected and just curious who that is as I'll need to find someone sooner than later for that setup...albeit on a 4.0 until I'm ready to step up to a stroker.

Thanks again for sharing!

I was impressed when Carbahn sent a new engine free of charge. That was a new block, rods, crank, pistons. Lots of cost right there. Stroker #2 had a rod go right through the block on both ends, there was nothing salvageable.
Carbahn accepted the headwork and cams/supporting mods as they don't care about the headwork and the cams are Schrick 292s, top quality stuff when used with the Schrick Ti retainers and springs.

I asked a very knowledgeable friend to be at Carbahn when they disassembled it as an independent observer, so perhaps had I not had that contact I would have been told it was the tune or whatever.

The unfortunate part of Carbahn is you don't deal with Dinan, you deal with another person there which is a horrible experience. Still, they warranty their work, so there is some level of seriousness there.

Carbahn sells a 4.6L stroker with regular cams and provides the software. This nets a lame ~400whp as seen in the stroker shootout years ago. The midrange is fantastic but it falls flat on its face up top.
If you decide to do big cams, which Carbahn is happy to sell, but you want to retain the stock ECU to pass emissions etc well then good luck finding a tune because they don't have one.
Even the 292s are not big enough to fully take advantage of the stroker, but it's the largest Schrick sells off the shelf that will work with Vanos.

Carbahn does not say which rings they use, but they don't use Mahle pistons in the first place. Steve knew exactly what I was talking about when I said I had high oil consumption and mentioned they had run into that as well in their first strokers. It's safe to say which rings to use are big secret.
In Mahle pistons, the high and low compression rings are different. The builder of Stroker1 had used low compression rings to build low compression engines successfully, but not high compression rings and that's where we ran into a problem.

$36k included the R&R and my ported head and cams/supporting mods. The cost of directly building stroker#3 with all supporting mods is >$50k:
36k base
2k headwork
4k cams/supporting parts
1k new hydraulic lifters
4k BimmerWorld LT headers and associated xpipe
3k Karbonius intake
3k larger throttle bodies
1k tune
1k larger injectors
54k!

I used Jordan/RK for Stroker#2, then switched to a tuner who is not on the forum or has a commercial presence.

We strongly considered doing 292 cams on our 4.0L that now sits in the E90 M3, as I'm sure it'll net 410whp on a dynojet STD on pump 93.

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 02-17-2022 at 02:53 PM..
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      02-18-2022, 02:25 PM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
We strongly considered doing 292 cams on our 4.0L that now sits in the E90 M3, as I'm sure it'll net 410whp on a dynojet STD on pump 93.
Who would you use to tune the E90 non-stroker, but with the 292 cams?
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      02-18-2022, 02:40 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by reidetailing View Post
Who would you use to tune the E90 non-stroker, but with the 292 cams?
The same tuner who currently tuned my stroker. For sure. If we do 292s eventually then he'll do the 4.0

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 02-18-2022 at 03:08 PM..
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      02-18-2022, 05:24 PM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
The same tuner who currently tuned my stroker. For sure. If we do 292s eventually then he'll do the 4.0
I'd be interested to see if it's possible to get 292s working with stock 4.0 internals, injectors and ECU.
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