Poll: Have you replaced your stock bearings?

[tdott]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Absolutely nothing wrong with stock bolts. If you have confidence you mechanic can install rod bearings, he can install stock bolts. No reports of stock bolts failing. But they take longer to install due to the torque sequence so shop’s prefer to to spend more on parts and to let them make more on labor.

The chances of not getting the torque angle 100% is a risk that arp doesn't have.

While yes it should be possible to get it right, add in a busy shop environment, working on multiple cars, being interrupted, there is a chance it isn't done right.

[pbonsalb]

If you are worried the mechanic can’t torque stock rod bolts you should not let change your bearings. If your confidence level is merely that it should be possible for your mechanic to get it right, you should be using another mechanic.

The ARPs are easier and quicker to install. I have used both stock and ARPs on S65 rod bearing installs. They practically pay for themselves in reduced labor if you are paying a shop. They are also reusable, which save a little on the 2nd bearing change. I’d use ARPs for those reasons, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with stock bolts and any competent mechanic can install them properly.

[SAMM3Y]

I'm planning on doing my rb's in the next two weeks, I have the arp625's and a set of acl standard shells that I was planning on using. I haven't heard much about the acl's, I purchased them a year or two ago because they were available at the time. I don't drive the car much and am doing this prep along with motor/trans mounts, new clutch and flywheel and a bunch of other pm for a supercharger install. The car only does 2k-3k mile a year, are the acl's gonna be ok for a couple of years? Should I just buy some BE's or ess spec cuz I've come this far and for the sake of $500 I don't wanna short change it. I'd be happy changing the acl's again in 15k-20k miles on a supercharged car that'll see some track time and spirited driving. Any thoughts or wisdom appreciated. TIA

[IamFODI]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

I'm planning on doing my rb's in the next two weeks, I have the arp625's and a set of acl standard shells that I was planning on using. I haven't heard much about the acl's, I purchased them a year or two ago because they were available at the time. I don't drive the car much and am doing this prep along with motor/trans mounts, new clutch and flywheel and a bunch of other pm for a supercharger install. The car only does 2k-3k mile a year, are the acl's gonna be ok for a couple of years? Should I just buy some BE's or ess spec cuz I've come this far and for the sake of $500 I don't wanna short change it. I'd be happy changing the acl's again in 15k-20k miles on a supercharged car that'll see some track time and spirited driving. Any thoughts or wisdom appreciated. TIA

I'd think that if any decent bearing doesn't last 2k-3k miles per year times a few years, you've got other problems.

[anerbe]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

I'm planning on doing my rb's in the next two weeks, I have the arp625's and a set of acl standard shells that I was planning on using. I haven't heard much about the acl's, I purchased them a year or two ago because they were available at the time. I don't drive the car much and am doing this prep along with motor/trans mounts, new clutch and flywheel and a bunch of other pm for a supercharger install. The car only does 2k-3k mile a year, are the acl's gonna be ok for a couple of years? Should I just buy some BE's or ess spec cuz I've come this far and for the sake of $500 I don't wanna short change it. I'd be happy changing the acl's again in 15k-20k miles on a supercharged car that'll see some track time and spirited driving. Any thoughts or wisdom appreciated. TIA

If you’re paying a shop all the labor to replace them, why not get BE or ARP if you’re uncertain about ACL’s. I’d only do the ACL’s if you’re doing th swap yourself and you want to save the extra $500 not getting a more proven bearing set.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by anerbe

If you’re paying a shop all the labor to replace them, why not get BE or ARP if you’re uncertain about ACL’s. I’d only do the ACL’s if you’re doing th swap yourself and you want to save the extra $500 not getting a more proven bearing set.

ACL has been around for many years (while BE is a fairly new activity) so not sure how ACL can be less "proven" as a supplier mate.

[SAMM3Y]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

ACL has been around for many years (while BE is a fairly new activity) so not sure how ACL can be less "proven" as a supplier mate.

I think he means proven with the s65. After reviewing the catalog I'm gonna stick with the acl's. I like the way they're using a copper lead Babbitt which will be helpful to monitor wear with oil analysis which I know isn't foolproof but helpful. I'll be doing them myself and can always change them again down the road and I believe with the arp625s I can reuse them. Probably need to spec some reuseable subframe hardware too!!

[Solo_M_Tech]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

ACL has been around for many years (while BE is a fairly new activity) so not sure how ACL can be less "proven" as a supplier mate.

This 100%. ACL has been around for a long time and make an excellent product. Same can be said for King.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

I think he means proven with the s65. After reviewing the catalog I'm gonna stick with the acl's. I like the way they're using a copper lead Babbitt which will be helpful to monitor wear with oil analysis which I know isn't foolproof but helpful. I'll be doing them myself and can always change them again down the road and I believe with the arp625s I can reuse them. Probably need to spec some reuseable subframe hardware too!!

BE uses copper and lead as well.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

I think he means proven with the s65. After reviewing the catalog I'm gonna stick with the acl's. I like the way they're using a copper lead Babbitt which will be helpful to monitor wear with oil analysis which I know isn't foolproof but helpful. I'll be doing them myself and can always change them again down the road and I believe with the arp625s I can reuse them. Probably need to spec some reuseable subframe hardware too!!

Yep the ARP 625's should be ok to reuse and at least over here they where more than twice the cost of the ACL shells!

[Scharbag]

Also have to be a little careful of bore distortion with the stronger ARP-625 bolts.

While this info is from BE, all of the raw info is available for your own review and analysis.

Cheers,

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by Scharbag

Also have to be a little careful of bore distortion with the stronger ARP-625 bolts.

While this info is from BE, all of the raw info is available for your own review and analysis.

Cheers,

Also went back and forward on this one Scarbag, as always plenty information to find including different good opinions. Ended up with trusting ARP - being an main bolt supplier for ages - and their rekommendation specifically for the S65.
The ARP 2000 (also being used by BE) is a third of the 625 alloy price which I'm thinking also could be a reason to use them, as well as promoting them.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Also went back and forward on this one Scarbag, as always plenty information to find including different good opinions. Ended up with trusting ARP - being an main bolt supplier for ages - and their rekommendation specifically for the S65.
The ARP 2000 (also being used by BE) is a third of the 625 alloy price which I'm thinking also could be a reason to use them, as well as promoting them.

For sure. It is great to have the information to make your own informed choice. ARP makes excellent hardware.

Personally, I was going to use BMW bolts until I realized that the cost of having to purchase an angle gauge that fits, the risk I screwed it up and the extra time it would take was not worth the savings. I was happy that BE offered a fastener with close to BMW bore distortion that also is sooooo simple to install.

Cheers,
Cheers,

[anerbe]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

I think he means proven with the s65. After reviewing the catalog I'm gonna stick with the acl's. I like the way they're using a copper lead Babbitt which will be helpful to monitor wear with oil analysis which I know isn't foolproof but helpful. I'll be doing them myself and can always change them again down the road and I believe with the arp625s I can reuse them. Probably need to spec some reuseable subframe hardware too!!

yes, I should have clarified - proven on the S65 as stated.

I haven't seen any ACL's pulled yet on an S65. Maybe on the V10?

Of course, it'd also be nice to see more bearing options for this car, and if there is a consistency between all extra clearance bearing options having great results, this can help further understanding the root cause.

[pbonsalb]

BE also uses copper/lead as do one of the VAC bearings. Less risk of damage to the crank, though many cranks have been ruined by failing copper/lead bearings on these motors. All newer BMW do not use copper/lead bearings and do not seem to have bearing problems. It’s not the material that matters. It’s something else, and the theories abound from sulpher in the gas to driving style to warm up procedure to oil weight to engine tolerances to inadequate bearing clearance to poor knock sensing.

[BimmerMan33]

Not sure where I read this but one of the theories regarding rod bearing failure stated inadequately torqued rod bolts from the factory.
Who knows if it wasn't torqued right in the first place or became loose eventually with use. Apparently if rod bolts are not torqued adequately, the bearing clearance decreases further, thereby increasing chances of contact between rod bearing and crank.
I believe there has been a detailed thread in this forum about this from 3 to 4 years ago...

[pbonsalb]

Yes, that is another theory. So many to choose from. And in addition to multiple options for replacement bearings, there are multiple options for replacement rod bolts — stock, Carrillo, ARP 2000 from BE or VAC and ARP 625 from lots of places.

[JRV]

Originally Posted by cjm41

BE-ARP bolts use ARP2000, which is a weaker alloy than the ARP625 compound which the bolts more commonly referred to as "ARP bolts" are made of.

BE-ARP bolts are as strong as OEM bolts, the difference is that the BE-ARP bolts have an easy torquing process. The only benefit is, they're easy to install, it's up to you if they're worth the extra money. I'm not installing, and the shop told me makes no difference to them.

The traditional ARP bolts are far superior. They are made of the ARP625 compound. They are also significantly more expensive. The downside is that they are the same exact size as OEM bolts but don't account for the difference in torque, resulting in the bolt being driven in just a tiny bit further than they are supposed to in order to meet the torque spec.

This is what the BE-ARP aimed to (and successfully) corrected. However, it's a cheaper alloy than the ARP625.

The confusion lies with the name "ARP" which is the brand name, but people on the forum don't discuss compound.

How do I know? I called ARP and spoke to someone for about 30 minutes.

Why isn't this more widely known? Nobody is hiding it, but people associate "BE" and "ARP" individually with being superior.

This is true... of the BE bearings which correct the clearance issue. It's also correct of the ARP625 bolts which are a superior alloy, and thusly priced accordingly.

BE-ARP (made of ARP2000) are not superior quality to OEM. They are simply easier to torque when installing.

All of this said- you'll all be fine. There are plenty of S65s running around with all sorts of variations. I let my obsessive nature get the best of me and spent a couple days on the phone getting the real story and piecing it all together like a detective. I know all sorts of crap about the inner workings of these companies now as well

I simply chose what I believe to be the most suitable combo of bolts and bearings.

Edit: I'm still somewhat on the fence about not using the ARP625 bolts. Some very reputable people told me the bolt size is a non-issue, and I trust them. However, there are no reported issues with OEM bolts. Therefore I felt the BE bearings and OEM bolts were the most logical combo. That's not to say the BE bearing/ARP625 bolt combo isn't superior/stronger- it is. But they, apparently, aren't 100% perfect.

Same combo here, 3 years ago.

[DrFerry]

So after all these years, it's about 50/50 between those who have changed their Rod Bearings and those who haven't.. Are you feeling lucky? I guess so..

[NeverL8]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

So after all these years, it's about 50/50 between those who have changed to Rod Bearings and those who haven't.. Are you feeling lucky? I guess so..

Better question: out of those 129 who have not…how many had their bearings fail?

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by TheRussski

Better question: out of those 129 who have not…how many had their bearings fail?

OP, sounds like a new poll waiting to happen.

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

OP, sounds like a new poll waiting to happen.

Some of these people were the most vocal against the idea. Two of the absolute most vocal naysayers did blow their motors with rod bearing failure. Both immediately left the forum. So getting answers might not be easily forthcoming.