Stock brakes are fantastic at Track, just need cooling ducts.

[The-Traveler]

My 2011 E92 M3 DCT went on track with Original Brakes 1 month ago and the rotors & pads had 134,000km on them and 11 years. I destroyed them that day after 54 laps at Toronto Motorsports Park which is a very tight and technical track that eats brakes.

Did they overheat a few times, sure. Did I fail to stop and roll onto the grass once or twice, yes. But so did my friends' stock 2016 Porsche Cayman GT4. Best time 1:26

Fast forward 1 month and we're at it again.

The Porsche replaced the stock brakes with slotted instead of drilled rotors and Pagid Yellow pads.

I replaced mine with barely used OEM rotors and like oem pads. (Whatever that means. I bought all rotors and pads from someone online who totalled their car 300km after changing their brakes. All in, 4 rotors, all new pads, installed, I paid the same as 2 oem rotors ordered online.

This time I was smart(er), so I brought a laser heat thermometer. (gun)

After a dozen laps or so coming off of the track my friends brakes are 300 Fahrenheit. Meanwhile, mine ar 590-600+ Fahrenheit. I did improve though, new time was 1:24.

I believe I need a GTS like front lip with active brake ducts. Can anyone recording me one please? I want CF that's low weight and nice looking, not just plastic wrapped in carbon.

Thanks

[Z K]

I have been using the OEM brakes for 10 years on track. They are fine but you need to run track pads and high temp brake fluid. OEM brake pads will overheat and the OEM fluid will boil easily.

It also depends on the track, wheel/tire/suspension set up and how fast you're pushing the car. On stock-like street tires, your tires will give up before the brakes do.

[leftfootbr8king]

Lol at this thread title, followed by “did I fail to stop? Yes. Did I go off track a few times? Yes”


Seems how you define “fantastic” is likely different than how I do.

[Redd]

Originally Posted by leftfootbr8king

Lol at this thread title, followed by “did I fail to stop? Yes. Did I go off track a few times? Yes”


Seems how you define “fantastic” is likely different than how I do.

LOL. Title should be changed to Cayman GT4 stock brakes suck, need better pads.

[Scrippy]

I agree with your sentiments on the brakes. Toronto is a tight, complex and brake-ee track. I think better pads, tougher fluid and cooling will right ya for a while until you get too fast ultimately and you will. The brakes on this chassis get picked on but they are the weak spot first to arrive for most folks I’d say. Rarely are folks a boss with the power and handling.

[gmx]

Reading temps in pits doesn't mean much. How you cooldown and do your inlaps matters more. Stock brakes are good but the sliders and rubber bush just sucks every time you need to switch from OEM or street to track pads and vice versa.

[The-Traveler]

Thanks guys lol I appreciate the humour.
I did have track fluid.

What pads do you recommend?
Are there any that can pull track and street duty without too much noise?

[gmx]

No such thing. A mixed duty pad is always a compromise and usually more suited to things like Auto-X/khana/rallysprints where you need good friction, bite, "feel" in different, usually cooler temp ranges than what you'd face on road courses.

I used to use PFC11, they are noisy.

I used OEM rear pads once on AD08R tyres; not a fast tyre at all by standards today. Ambient temp was 12-15C, I did 2-3 hotlaps then cooldowns sometimes with a drive through pitlane. I'd even do as many as 3 cooldown laps in a row before coming in (open day, no sessions ftw. N54 sucks). Never more than 15minutes and still ended up with pad deposits on the rear discs. If anyone is saying OE brake compounds are good, they aren't braking hard nor late enough; aka not even pushing nor approaching the limits of the car/tyre/track combination.
Continues to boggle my mind when ppl recommend "don't do anything to your car" with the rare exception of fluid. Non-adjusted camber will wreck 90% of newbies outer shoulders because they probably don't know how to avoid overdriving and asking more from the front axle. OE brakes will either pade fade or leave deposits on the disc.

[The-Traveler]

Are you recommending the pfc11?

[aus]

I've had good luck with the StopTech Sport pads for street and track. It's not NEARLY as good as the Stoptech track pads, but it's decent.

Consider getting the Porsche brake ducts.
But you won't know what it's like with a BBK until you get one.

There's also a thread here from WAY back by a pro-driver at Spa, who installed ducts and still literally cooked his brakes.
.
.

[Redd]

Low speed tracks are less stressful on brakes. High speed tracks with low speed corners at the end of the straights will cook stock brakes at the end of 4-5 fast laps.

[gmx]

Originally Posted by The-Traveler

Are you recommending the pfc11?

Pretty good option for that caliper.

I use brembo calipers with DSUno all round now which are more convenient for bedding by switching to DS2500 for street (meh pad), and economical as well at least where I'm located.

[Z K]

I run Project Mu HC-CS for track and some street. Noiseless on stock calipers and it'll hold up on 800C+ track temps.

The only drawback is it is not sold in North America and it'll only last 2-3 track days. I have a new front set for sale in the for sale section.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by leftfootbr8king

Lol at this thread title, followed by “did I fail to stop? Yes. Did I go off track a few times? Yes”


Seems how you define “fantastic” is likely different than how I do.

"Did I get lucky that my brakes didn't fail to work right before a wall? Yes."

Getting a proper BBK is a safety item for tracking these cars. I remember doing only two or three hotlaps between cooldown laps and pretending it was fine.

Having confidence with the ability to brake consistently each lap without babying the brakes unlocks a whole new level of performance. Just don't take it to the extreme I did by running 10-20 hot laps at a time on a >95F day and no cooldown laps because your calipers will not like it.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by Ximian

"Did I get lucky that my brakes didn't fail to work right before a wall? Yes."

Getting a proper BBK is a safety item for tracking these cars. I remember doing only two or three hotlaps between cooldown laps and pretending it was fine.

Having confidence with the ability to brake consistently each lap without babying the brakes unlocks a whole new level of performance. Just don't take it to the extreme I did by running 10-20 hot laps at a time on a >95F day and no cooldown laps because your calipers will not like it.

Come out to California where every summer track day is over > 100F air temp. It can hit over 100F in spring and fall at times too. The elevation changes and sharp corners at Sonoma and Laguna Seca kills brakes fast.

The stock calipers are fine with the heat but you need to flush RBF600/Endless/Castrol brake fluid every track day or sometimes in between sessions as it will overheat often.

[JobanM]

I have only ran TMP as I built my car up and it’s extremely hard on brakes. I have even cooked my AP9660 with endless pads and fluid at TMP. It’s a lot of stop and go with no downtime.

Like someone mentioned earlier it’s best to upgrade depending on your pace and how often you track. It’s your safety at the end of the day.

I have ran 26 laps at TMP in one session with cooldown laps in between for brake management. I don’t have any ducting currently and stock rear caliper and rotor with upgraded pads.

[tsk94]

This was my experience as well. I ran stock brakes on my track car with proper front ducting (GT4 splitter to backing plates with center of hat ducting and rear dust shields removed), solid calipers guides, SS lines, good fluid and PFC race pads (08's or 11's). Never had an issue with them on track. No fade, ever. Even on a track that's known to be quite hard on brakes.

I later upgraded to a PFC BBK and truthfully, felt no difference... Pedal feel was the same, since I never experienced fade before that was also no different. The only advantage was perhaps a longer consumable part lifespan. But even then, I had very good success with the OEM ducted setup being friendly on consumables overall.

The ducting makes all the difference. The same setup minus the ducting and having stock dust shields in place would simply not hold up to the same degree and you would very likely experience fade driving at a decent pace.

[Thumbie]

Stock pads can take some heat, but yeah after some hot laps they'll fade for sure.

For a track pad, the Ferrodo something 2500 is quite streetable. Not loud or terribly dusty. I know a couple guys who track them on their e9x's (with hi temp fluid obviously)

Never thought I'd be fast enough for aftermarket calipers, but are you saying aftermarket calipers make swapping pads easier??

[TexasEmThree]

I've been trying to find a good brake ducting set up without running the GT4 lip. Has anyone tried this under spoiler (https://laptorr.com/products/under-spoiler)? Seems like it could be a great option.

[derbo]

Originally Posted by TexasEmThree

I've been trying to find a good brake ducting set up without running the GT4 lip. Has anyone tried this under spoiler (https://laptorr.com/products/under-spoiler)? Seems like it could be a great option.

I've seen this product and interested in it but doesn't seem like anyone rocks it here.

https://laptorr.com/collections/m/pr.../under-spoiler

[TexasEmThree]

I wish shipping didn't double the price lol....but I'll probably end up trying that was hoping to hear some first hand experience with it first.

[tdott]

Originally Posted by derbo

I've seen this product and interested in it but doesn't seem like anyone rocks it here.

https://laptorr.com/collections/m/pr.../under-spoiler

I'd be down for that if we can get a group buy going, assuming it works with a stock bumper.