Suspension Upgrade For Part Time Track Car

[Ximian]

I'm still years away from building a dedicated track car so mine is still spending a lot of time on the street. With that in mind, I'm not quite interested in a true coilover for the rear to avoid having to reinforce the area.

I planned on replacing all of the control arms next spring, so I might as well include the rest of the suspension while I'm at it. Because most of them are roughly the same price, and popularitym I'm debating these four options -

1. Bilstein B16 (DampTronic) Coilover Kit ($3200)
2. MCS 2-Way Non-Remote Damper Set (starting at $3500)
3. JRZ RS TWO ($4200)
4. ISC N1 Track Coilover Package ($1000?)

I'm likely not going to ever go too crazy with the suspension so I only need some light adjustments.

#1 is nice because it retains the EDC with some improvements, but unclear what that means on the track.
#2 seems like a good option for growing into if I chose to make big adjustments to the suspension settings.
#3 same as #2, but seems like it's a more popular option.

Option #4 looks interesting because it should be an upgrade over the EDC with few adjustments available. The price looks very cheap, but maybe too cheap? Not really any reviews on this for track use.

What are the opinions on these?

[tsk94]

If you plan to eventually track the car more, get either the JRZ's or the MCS's now. Going with options 1 or 4 are great for your situation right now, but if you start to track the car more you'll eventually upgrade from both of those. The MCS's or JRZ's will handle mostly street use just fine with appropriate spring rates and the damping turned down.

Another option is the KW CS, probably the best bang for buck track-capable yet road usable setup for these cars. I believe they are right around ~3k. And you can eventually bump up the spring rates once you start tracking more if needed.

[PrimeBMW]

Originally Posted by Ximian

I'm still years away from building a dedicated track car so mine is still spending a lot of time on the street. With that in mind, I'm not quite interested in a true coilover for the rear to avoid having to reinforce the area.

I planned on replacing all of the control arms next spring, so I might as well include the rest of the suspension while I'm at it. Because most of them are roughly the same price, and popularitym I'm debating these four options -

1. Bilstein B16 (DampTronic) Coilover Kit ($3200)
2. MCS 2-Way Non-Remote Damper Set (starting at $3500)
3. JRZ RS TWO ($4200)
4. ISC N1 Track Coilover Package ($1000?)

I'm likely not going to ever go too crazy with the suspension so I only need some light adjustments.

#1 is nice because it retains the EDC with some improvements, but unclear what that means on the track.
#2 seems like a good option for growing into if I chose to make big adjustments to the suspension settings.
#3 same as #2, but seems like it's a more popular option.

Option #4 looks interesting because it should be an upgrade over the EDC with few adjustments available. The price looks very cheap, but maybe too cheap? Not really any reviews on this for track use.

What are the opinions on these?

Don't be silly. MCS.

[DRLane]

Plus one for MCS. I'm on JRZ 2 way with no regrets on track performance, but I would love not to have to crawl on the ground to adjust compression.

If you can swing it, just go straight to 2 way remote!

[PrimeBMW]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Plus one for MCS. I'm on JRZ 2 way with no regrets on track performance, but I would love not to have to crawl on the ground to adjust compression.

If you can swing it, just go straight to 2 way remote!

Oh. I didn't notice he selected non remote two way. Either go with singles or remote doubles.

From what is described MCS singles are more than enough on the track and more comfortable on the street than stock.

[derbo]

Ximian

Your price tag for MCS is just the dampeners. I would expect you to range up to about $4k-5k depending on where you buy it and what you buy with it.

[911r]

Anyone know if there'd be a difference in ride quality between the JRZs & MCS' (both two ways with external reservoirs) .. and please don't get the ISCs. I would think you'd out grow them quickly if intend on tracking. The only people I personally know that run or have ran ISCs were sponsored and pretty much got them for free.

[dparm]

With Damptronic, can you do your own custom setups? i.e. a Road Atlanta tune, a VIR tune, a street tune, etc.?

If so, and you have access to someone who is smart enough to know that sort of setup, I'd do the Bilsteins.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by derbo

Ximian

Your price tag for MCS is just the dampeners. I would expect you to range up to about $4k-5k depending on where you buy it and what you buy with it.

Yep, I noticed that mistake. I was using Bimmerworld pricing for most things and they have a package without springs and other items. Meanwhile the other pricing includes pretty much everything.

[Estoril Blue]

Different opinion: I would go for a lower-tier set. Going to a more aggressive and complex suspension argues that you'll be dialing in a fairly aggressive setup - otherwise, why get it?

In it's current life as a 99% street car (do the math - you'll likely find that is really how it lives) - it can really be a harsh pain-in-the-shorts to live with everyday setup for the track.

I have MCS 2-ways on my track-only car - but I wouldn't live with it on a daily driver. Way too harsh and unforgiving on even slightly imperfect roads. You'd feel everything.

I believe that you ask yourself what your 95th percentile use of a thing is - and then work to that.

I tracked my street car for years on Ground Control Street/School coilovers without feeling that the suspension was "holding me back". I think its important to be honest with ourselves about how we really use the car and whether there is a system in the car that is truly in the way of our driving. I've seen incredible driving (due to talented drivers) in total crapboxes with no suspension, crap brakes and a numb chassis.

As you can tell - I tend to focus more on driver development than the hardware. Anyway - there is my contrarian view.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by 911r

Anyone know if there'd be a difference in ride quality between the JRZs & MCS' (both two ways with external reservoirs) .. and please don't get the ISCs. I would think you'd out grow them quickly if intend on tracking. The only people I personally know that run or have ran ISCs were sponsored and pretty much got them for free.

I haven't quite outgrown the standard EDC suspension yet as I still have a little bit more time to find with them, but I might as well take advantage of the timing for "while I'm in there" when replacing the control arms.

The best thing about the ISC is the price. It's a full kit that seems to be a step up above the EDC for the price of just rebuilding the other kits so I wouldn't mind throwing some money away if it lasts me a few years. But it's a risk if it's not a significant enough improvement over the EDC and there are no useful comparisons I've found. I'd love at least a second improvement for a "2 minute" track.

[derbo]

What about 3DM Ohlins trackday setup? Or hell what about the standard R&T?

https://3dmmotorsport.com/collection...suspension-kit

$ 3,157.35

3DM/Öhlins TrackDay Specifications

This assembly comes in our RTR (Ready to Run) setup.

Öhlins Road and Track kit: BMS MI40
Camber/Caster adjustable top mounts
Urethane rear upper shock mounts
Rear Swift Spring thrust washer set
Front Swift Springs: (80 N/mm) (450 lbs/in)
Rear Swift Springs: (140 N/mm)(800 lbs/in)
New front spindle clamp bolt x2
New front Anti Roll Bar nuts x2
New rear lower shock mount bolts x2

[Redd]

Originally Posted by Estoril Blue

Different opinion: I would go for a lower-tier set. Going to a more aggressive and complex suspension argues that you'll be dialing in a fairly aggressive setup - otherwise, why get it?

In it's current life as a 99% street car (do the math - you'll likely find that is really how it lives) - it can really be a harsh pain-in-the-shorts to live with everyday setup for the track.

I have MCS 2-ways on my track-only car - but I wouldn't live with it on a daily driver. Way too harsh and unforgiving on even slightly imperfect roads. You'd feel everything.

I believe that you ask yourself what your 95th percentile use of a thing is - and then work to that.

I tracked my street car for years on Ground Control Street/School coilovers without feeling that the suspension was "holding me back". I think its important to be honest with ourselves about how we really use the car and whether there is a system in the car that is truly in the way of our driving. I've seen incredible driving (due to talented drivers) in total crapboxes with no suspension, crap brakes and a numb chassis.

As you can tell - I tend to focus more on driver development than the hardware. Anyway - there is my contrarian view.

I agree with this. As much as I would love the 'street cred' of a true track coilover, the reality is that my car lives 99% of its life on the street. This is why I love my Ohlins R/T. Yes its slightly undersprung for true track work, but my butt thanks me every time I go over rough roads. There are also tons of mods you can do to improve handling without needing a track coilover setup.

[derbo]

Originally Posted by Redd

I agree with this. As much as I would love the 'street cred' of a true track coilover, the reality is that my car lives 99% of its life on the street. This is why I love my Ohlins R/T. Yes its slightly undersprung for true track work, but my butt thanks me every time I go over rough roads. There are also tons of mods you can do to improve handling without needing a track coilover setup.

FWIW,

I ran my MCS 2WNR with 400/700 spring rates for the past 2 years. It was just a hair stiffer than the Ohlins R&T and very solid on the street.

[dparm]

I don't think you can go wrong with JRZ or MCS. Both are proven setups with lots of options. My perspective has shifted a bit towards "copy the setups that work".

Also, my two cents: aftermarket suspension does not have to ride like shit. Proper spring and damper matching is the secret to a compliant ride.

[//steve\\]

My car came with the B16 Damptronic and it's probably the best do it all, OE+ like setup that retains EDC and gives you a bump in performance with some lower capability but I can say it's absolute not in the same realm as the top of line performance dampers.

I replaced those with MCS 2WNR. The B16s are progressive rates around 514/799lbs so I'll argue they ride a touch softer. My MCS setup is 500/800lb linear springs. With just the out of the box recommended setting from MCS (and it's pretty close to the middle of the range for comp/rebound) I feel like I lost almost no comfort in comparison to the B16. What I did gain though was a car that felt much much better when pushed only turning them up a couple clicks.

The adjustment range on a more standard shock is just so much greater. I found with the B16 I used either the softest or stiffest and never the middle. The "stiffest" to me felt like it was a touch overdamped. The softest was pretty hard to complain about and if you drove any road at a 5/10 pace you could leave them that way and just cruise along and be happy.

I'll note my car isn't a daily driver so I'm a little more biased towards max performance.

Having run Ohlins R&T on previous cars too they should be a strong contender.

[Bartledoo]

I got slightly used KW clubsports for $1500. Can't really regret not going with MCS 2WR or KW Competition with the low price I payed. Would I like to have the fancier setup, yes. They are doing pretty well though.

[hsaguirre]

Originally Posted by derbo

What about 3DM Ohlins trackday setup? Or hell what about the standard R&T?

https://3dmmotorsport.com/collection...suspension-kit

As someone who's in a similar situation, considering upgrading my original 12 yr old suspension, I've thought about the R&T or MCS singles but haven't seen a lot of love for the Ohlins in the section.

Consensus seems to be that the R&T are too soft for the track, I wonder what the experience has been with this kit.

[Redd]

The Ohlins Dedicated Track kit is pretty new, don't think you're gonna get a lot of reviews on it.

[Mvez]

Ohlins Dedicated or Bilstein Clubsport. Both are inverted strut, monotube setups. Both have valving to handle lower or higher spring rates. Both come with full camber plate and mount packages. Ohlins comes with a bit more ideal track rates at 700/1000, but I've upgraded the springs on my Bilstein clubsports to 850/1200 without a problem. Both are high performing, bomb-proof setups that rival full motorsport shocks.

KW CS are twin-tubes, and simply aren't in the same league of Ohlins or Bilstein monotubes. It's been proven on track countless times, and a well known fact. I'll take a single adjustable Ohlins over any twin-tube KW all day long. Now, KW's inverted monotube motorsport stuff is phenomenal, but it comes with a higher price.

MCS and JRZ are nice, but neither are inverted struts, which lead to higher wear rates on heavy, strut cars like ours. JRZ's have a history of not holding nitrogen pressure. Personally, I've never been impressed much with JRZ, and I have set on my Cayman. I will likely never buy their products again.

[Kelse92]

I voted in the poll for MCS.
However for cheap, used KW Clubsports are often around $1500. I got mine for that price, but have since spent $500 on additional springs and $800 on a rebuild in my year of ownership.
The new Ohlins' setup should be good. Even starting with R&T and later revalving them could be an option.
Ultimately the MCS is going to be most well-known setup if you are willing to spend the additional cost.

[Mvez]

Originally Posted by hsaguirre

As someone who's in a similar situation, considering upgrading my original 12 yr old suspension, I've thought about the R&T or MCS singles but haven't seen a lot of love for the Ohlins in the section.

Consensus seems to be that the R&T are too soft for the track, I wonder what the experience has been with this kit.

People are clueless. I've had multiple sets of Ohlins R&T revalved by PSI (before Ohlins got smart and started selling "dedicated" kits), and the performance on track is every bit as good as a MCS or JRZ shock. Sure, you don't get doubles/triples (unless TTX), but the reality is that it gives you virtually all the same performance and features at better price. Now with Dedicated Ohlins, they are valved for more proper rates, so they aren't "soft" at all.

Plus, Ohlins are inverted struts, which is what you really want for strut-based track cars.

I've got an FRS race car on revalved Ohlins R&T that easily matches handling of competitor cars with $7-10K MCS and JRZ shocks. We've had others drive Ohlins equipped cars and comment on how good they are. You just have to get them valved correctly. I'm not saying JRZ and MCS are bad, I'm just saying when you deal with a company the size of Ohlins, who has OE capacity for manufacturing, you get certain features and performance at a much lower price point. Economies of scale are what allow Ohlins to sell those RT/Dedicated kits at the prices they do, and that's with inverted struts, which are more expensive to manufacture, and provide better performance.

MCS is great, and they have a big BMW following, but it kinda reminds me back in they day when we would all buy shitty Koni twin-tubes that TC KLine brain-washed everybody with, because that was the popular internet setup....of course we all know better now. Obviously MCS are legit motorsport level stuff, and in now way am I comparing their stuff to koni crap, but the discounting of Ohlins singles is nuts.

I would take an Ohlins single over an MCS single all day long. Maybe even over their doubles to be honest. By the time you add up all the cost of springs, shock mounts, camber plates, you are over $4000 for a set of MCS singles, where Ohlins Dedicated is almost $1000 less for a full kit, with more features and benefits, along with inverted strut design. I just can't see how anybody rationalizes that MCS is somehow better when comparing apples to apples single setup.