opinions on m performance driving school

[byroncheung]

one of my friend asking if i would considering going.

i have looked at it before myself, think it's kinda pricey (almost $4k for 2 days in the SC center), compared to going to a 2 days HPDE track event...

obviously they're not the same thing, i'm sure the BMW event is well run, fun, and classy, with inclusive hotel and meals, opportunity to drive different cars (can be a 2 edged thing - i love learning driving better in my own car), maybe more track time. but is it worth the extra money?

just want to get some perspectives from people who has been to both BMW M driving school and HPDE.

[LuckiSevens]

Buying a manual teaches you how to drive 😃

[cjm41]

Originally Posted by LuckiSevens

Buying a manual teaches you how to drive 😃

Finally went DCT after years of being a manual guy. I still am a manual guy. But... this DCT transmission mated to the S65 is truly glorious.

I still maintain that any thread on this forum can be hijacked and turned into a DCT/6MT argument or rod bearing discussion

All joking aside- I'm interested in hearing about people's experience with the school.

[byroncheung]

Originally Posted by cjm41

I still maintain that any thread on this forum can be hijacked and turned into a DCT/6MT argument or rod bearing discussion

no kidding right?

[mapster37]

the m school is great! amazing instructors, you will not be disappointed

[ATLIEN]

I went last year and it was amazing. More of a pilgrimage to any bmw enthusiast. Now fortunately for me I get to go for free yearly as I live here in Greenville///Spartanburg and host the event with my clients. If $4k is a bit much try the BMW Track Meet which gives you serious track time with multiple bmws plus a ride with a pro to show you what the cars can do in an experts hands. Interestingly, they use Continental tires exclusively and I’ve got a new found respect for them on the track.

[amrazM]

Originally Posted by LuckiSevens

Buying a manual teaches you how to drive 😃

Not this shit again.


Both options are expensive, HPDE is intially cheaper but will wear your car incredible. Anyone that tracks their car knows this. The bmw driving school may be a better option, you learn a lot and it’s not your car or your tyres or your brakes.

[brettcp]

I just went to the 2 day M school a few weeks ago in Thermal, CA. It was by far one of the most fun experiences I've ever had.. ever. It's THAT fun. You beat the crap out of every car they put you in - they're yelling at you via the walkie-talkie to KEEP PUSHING even when you're at 120+mph and almost at the end of the track, so exhilarating its just incredible. I can't wait to do it again. I'll probably do the same class again before I feel that I'm ready for the advanced M school.

A few notes:

- Don't expect to get many photos or videos. They have you in the car, driving, as much as possible - they rush you through short "breaks" as they want everybody to have as much in-car time as possible. Don't expect to linger/wander around between sessions - you'll be in the car a LOT. If you really want a video, bring a go-pro or phone mount you can setup in the car because you won't be taking your hands off the wheel much at all.

- You won't be in the classroom for more than a few minutes each morning, and are only in there to discuss what you'll be doing for the day. I think we were only in the classroom for 20-30 minutes the first day, even less the second day.

- Next time, I would opt for the one without the hotel/dinner credit.. the hotel included with the package deal was OK, but I'd rather have stayed somewhere a bit better for the same price (difference in price between their package and just getting a hotel on my own). The lunches and dinner they provide at the facility were great.

- They had ginger chews for motion sickness, which I definitely needed. Be prepared for a bit of motion sickness if you're prone to it.

- I've heard there are discounts to be had if you ask around.. I didn't know this prior to going but I heard somebody in the class mention it. Perhaps ask your local dealer if you have a good relationship with them.

If they had a credit card terminal when I got out of that M5 on the last day, I'd probably have swiped my card and bought the car on the spot - it was that big of a rush. Pushing that car as had as we did was incredible. There were 18 of us, split into three groups of 6. They put a walkie-talkie in your car and give you personalized feedback as you drive.. they don't ride in your car. Over the two days we drove the M2, M3, M4, and M5. You always get into the same car (they have them numbered 1-6), so I always drove the same M2, same M3, etc.

Can't wait to go back.. I'll take my wife next time, she's going to love it.. and gives me an excuse to do it again. Feel free to let me know if you have any specific questions about it.

[nycplumber]

That sounds amazing but how do you know if you're using the correct line or making mistakes while you drive?

[kscarrol]

You begin early laps with an instructor in the car and then they are on the radio with instructors standing at all major turns. They comment as you go by and let you know if you were off-line. At least that was my experience at the two-day school I did several years ago in SC.

[SAMM3Y]

I think practice makes perfect... when I watch videos of instructors yelling live time instruction of in car track sessions I feel it's more confusing then helpful. If you join a good race club and spend some time between sessions in the classroom reviewing line techniques and talking about the lines it's more insightful. $4k will pay for a ton of track time and consumables, I'm sure the experience is awesome but the race club I typically run with discourages bringing your own instructor. But to each his/her own, some people get it quicker than others. I feel these "experience" type deals are more geared towards novices but I'm probably wrong.

[pwrdbym]

I’ve done the 2-day M school in SC. Right off I’d add that BMW CCA members get a pretty nice discount so keep that in mind. I remember paying more like $2.8k not including airfare. I’ll start by saying it’s a very cool experience for any BMW enthusiast. The track is located on the factory property plus the BMW CCA Foundation museum is there. I’d spend one day before or after to tour both of those locations. The price includes lunch and dinner for 2 days plus the hotel. They’ll load you down with all kinds of swag; jackets, shirts, hats, etc… The hotel has X5s and 750s as transport for school students. They even chauffeured us to the factory and museum the day after.
Day 1 was lots of wet skid pad practice so you learn car control, plus some fun J turns and drifting. Day 1 also included skill practice in different types of turns, braking, etc. Day 2 was mostly all “big” track stuff. Classroom time was very minimal. I will say there’s lots of time in the cars-you will be exhausted by the end of the day. The current stable has M2/M3/M4 all DCT, and you’ll get plenty of time in all of them. The instructors are all professionals so they know what they’re talking about. You have some one on one time with them in the car, the cars have radios in them so they’ll talk to you while you’re driving during other times. I’ve done many HPDEs, some as an instructor. I did this school more as an experience than anything. I loved beating on someone else’s car for 2 days. From the school I now have a great respect for the M2/3/4; we beat the shit out of those cars for 2 days straight in hot temps, A/C on the whole time. Not a single car had any kind of failure. (I always say this is the difference between BMW M’s and other whannabee performance cars—SUSTAINED track time.)

For the HPDE; it’s a good bang for your buck, but the instructors can be very hit or miss. Some aren’t experienced enough, while others are great drivers but have no idea how to talk to people. Either way you look at it this hobby is expensive. I’ve got the diesel truck & 20ft trailer to get to the HPDE, then hotel and food, tires, brake pads, fluid changes, helmet, race suit; the cost never ends. I enjoy my track days and HPDEs, but I have to say I enjoyed having absolutely everything taken care of me for 2 days in South Carolina.
I’m sure you’ll have a blast whichever you choose.

[kscarrol]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

I think practice makes perfect... when I watch videos of instructors yelling live time instruction of in car track sessions I feel it's more confusing then helpful. If you join a good race club and spend some time between sessions in the classroom reviewing line techniques and talking about the lines it's more insightful. $4k will pay for a ton of track time and consumables, I'm sure the experience is awesome but the race club I typically run with discourages bringing your own instructor. But to each his/her own, some people get it quicker than others. I feel these "experience" type deals are more geared towards novices but I'm probably wrong.

Agreed though they weren't yelling at the M School I attended. Helpful tips is how I would describe it, don't down shift in this part of the turn, enter the turn here, don't brake so early etc. OP asked about a two-day M School vs. a two-day HPDE, not extended track time with instructors. Totally agree with your assessment if you are getting serious about tracking the car. If are looking some improved driving skills and a great experience the I'd choose the M School. All depends on what the OP's ultimate goal is...

[SAMM3Y]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

Agreed though they weren't yelling at the M School I attended. Helpful tips is how I would describe it, don't down shift in this part of the turn, enter the turn here, don't brake so early etc. OP asked about a two-day M School vs. a two-day HPDE, not extended track time with instructors. Totally agree with your assessment if you are getting serious about tracking the car. If are looking some improved driving skills and a great experience the I'd choose the M School. All depends on what the OP's ultimate goal is...

But even those tips your gonna pick up yourself, you'll only unload your back suspension once In an off camber downhill cuz that'll teach you real quick.. my advice, learn to track on a course with few walls, most tracks are 30ft wide, you can come into most turns in all kinds of out of shape and still get around them, learning to do it quickly is theory and best taught off the track, find some friendly guys in open class and hitch a ride, that'll give you more insight then someone in a passenger seat. The $4k experience I'm sure is great but geared towards people with more $ than me!

[kscarrol]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

But even those tips your gonna pick up yourself, you'll only unload your back suspension once In an off camber downhill cuz that'll teach you real quick.. my advice, learn to track on a course with few walls, most tracks are 30ft wide, you can come into most turns in all kinds of out of shape and still get around them, learning to do it quickly is theory and best taught off the track, find some friendly guys in open class and hitch a ride, that'll give you more insight then someone in a passenger seat. The $4k experience I'm sure is great but geared towards people with more $ than me!

We are splitting hairs but to get on the track you need time in at least one if not several HPDE which generally means driving with an instructor in the car who is giving a rookie those tips no? When Oktoberfest was here in NOLA, the HPDE required in car instructors for novices, not just learned from making mistakes around the track... Ultimately I agree that if you are serious about tracking your car this progression is the only way to learn but my comments stand, if you are looking for a two day experience the M School is hard to beat. If cost is that much an issue, so be it because yes it is expensive, even with the BMWCCA 15% discount. But if I'm looking for a couple days beating a car, why use my own car and risk it. I'd rather beat up the latest BMW M cars for a couple days.

And the course in SC (and I'm sure Thermal in CA is just fine as well) is not significantly narrower that our local track so you have the opportunity try multiple turns from various entry/exit points, really a non-issue.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by cjm41

Finally went DCT after years of being a manual guy. I still am a manual guy. But... this DCT transmission mated to the S65 is truly glorious.

I still maintain that any thread on this forum can be hijacked and turned into a DCT/6MT argument or rod bearing discussion

All joking aside- I'm interested in hearing about people's experience with the school.

The S65 and DCT combo is glorious on track, the car properly comes alive. Manual is more engaging on the street but for track work DCT is king.

I'd probably do the Porsche driving school over BMW given they are a similar cost. Plus if you do West coast you could then Turo something nice for the day and hit the canyons.

[nissanite]

Go to a BMW UDE or On Tour and get a coupon for a 20% discount.

Join the BMW CCA and get a 15% discount.

These are redeemable at both BMW Performance Centers.

I am an instructor at the UDE, have been an instructor in Greer and I am a current HPDE instructor. I can tell you the experience of driving others cars is wonderful. To get the same experience driving your own car you will spend more. That is if you include wear and tear. Drifting is very abusive to a car. You will most likely destroy 2 sets of rears. The ability learned drifting and driving a loose car will benefit you if you continue and do HPDE.

[MachinesWithSouls]

Guess I'll chime in. I'm the dude that built the Performance Center website, wrote the copy, etc. I'm also an experienced HPDE guy.

First, HPDE, like others have said, needs the right instructor. If you get a good one your experience will be great, otherwise not so much. The expense of running a car like the E92, which is heavy, can also get pricey. Fuel alone for the day can run over $100. Post race maintainence is also required for these cars and adds up fast. But there is nothing like learning on your own car.

As for the Performance Center, both locations are excellent, the facility is well run, and all the instructors are great. It's not the same as an HPDE event - instead of learning a track, they break things down section by section. Wet skid pad, brake points, turn in, smoothness, where to look, all covered in various exercises. At the end of the day, you put them all together in a lap and it all makes sense. The 2 day is worth it for the extra practice time.

It's a good foundation. Do a PDC trip, then continue with HPDE to refine what you've learned.

[03BeastCharmer]

I've done both and they are different experiences. M School is more expensive, but NYC (Not Your Car), and is an experience and an opportunity to try the current M models in a controlled environment. DE will help you with car control in your car, which I think has more value than understanding the edge of adhesion in a car you will not drive again. Understanding the limits of different cars is good for development, but the practical experience of knowing your car I think is even better. I voted for DE, but because of consumables, I think your 1K cost may be a little low.

[SYT_Shadow]

I just wanted to chime in and say that there is absolutely no way a 2 day HPDE costs $1000. It is *way* more.

Track admission: $500
Fuel driving to/from the track: 50
Fuel at the track: half a tank per session, 4 sessions a day, 2 days = 4 tanks = 200
Hotel: 220 (maybe you need one for the M school anyway)
HPDE insurance: 300
Tires: Tires are $1500 mounted and last ~6 days. So for 2 days = 500
Track pads: If you already had them, assume $200 of wear

2k, and this assumes the wear and tear on your car costs 0 and ignores ancillary costs


The big difference between doing HPDEs and the M School is that HPDEs can be much faster because you've spent 30k on mods and have suspension/brakes/slicks/fixed seats.

[brettcp]

Originally Posted by nycplumber

That sounds amazing but how do you know if you're using the correct line or making mistakes while you drive?

Sorry to reply so late, just saw this thread was bumped.. there is a walkie-talkie in your car so they're giving you personalized feedback as you're going around the track, braking, correct lines, speeds through turns, etc. During events where there are several cars out on the track at once, if there is anybody who is holding back others by going too slow etc they'll radio for that person to pull into "pit lane" so others can pass. They were very on top of everything.

I had planned to do the 2 day "advanced" M school this year, but looks like I'll be pushing that back til 2021 due to how uncertain things are with covid lockdowns.

Joining BMW CCA gives you a discount which is worth the price of joining BMW CCA alone.

[LindseyTY]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

I think practice makes perfect... when I watch videos of instructors yelling live time instruction of in car track sessions I feel it's more confusing then helpful. If you join a good race club and spend some time between sessions in the classroom reviewing line techniques and talking about the lines it's more insightful.

It actually helps a lot.