BMW Performance Parts - When?

[SUB-ZERO]

Originally Posted by ///Metak

Not sure where you guys get your info, but the fact is, of the 140 authorized DINAN outlets 100 are BMW delaerships. There is even dealerships that sell fully modded Dinan vehicles. Too much Dinan hating on this forum, makes no sense.

I don't hate Dinan...I actually would like to buy a Dinan kit but I would have to travel away from my "home" dealership to do it...which is not really a big deal.

[mPlasticDesign]

Originally Posted by SUB-ZERO

I don't hate Dinan...I actually would like to buy a Dinan kit but I would have to travel away from my "home" dealership to do it...which is not really a big deal.

Originally Posted by MuchMoore

I don't hate Dinan at all, in fact I see a lot of upside to their products. I was just stating that since the contract with BMW was discontinued, a lot of dealers have stopped handling the products. There are only 3 BMW dealers in Florida who still do Dinan...

I'm glad to hear that. But according to BMWCCA there is ~300 dealerships. That means that 1/3 are authorized Dinan dealers. That seems like alot to me, it was never 100% anyways. Even 5 years ago, there were many dealerships that were either too small or were not big enthusiasts and didn't want to hassle with aftermarket mods.

[kmac1980]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Brembo brake systems are used only on select vehicles in OE applications under $100,000. It doesn't make sense for them to fight over a few pennies, when there is a substantial profit to be made in the aftermarket on BBK's for that same car.

What is their criteria for this, and why not BMW? I mean g35s got it, and apparently one of the reasons infiniti pulled the plug there is owners complained about the short pad life. Hyundai Genesis coupes are getting them OE, Subaru STIs got(get?) them, and you can't say the subaru STI owner isn't just as "mod happy" as the bmw crowd, if not more so. (eating into potential aftermarket money)

As well, many "high end" parts companies offer a certain level of product to the OE market, which a substantially stronger product for the aftermarket crowd (great examples in car audio such as Rockford Fosgate). I'm assuming your aftermarket brembo BBK for the m3 is a much stronger product than the units that came stock on a G35....

Not that I disagree with your overall point, I just wonder about some of the rationale involved.

[signes]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

There is no way in hell BMW would ever admit that in public.

I was told this by a person who has intimate knowledge of the way BMW does business in Germany.

Some companies actually lobby BMW NOT to use certain brand names as stock equipment because the potential aftermarket profit potential is so great. Brembo would only get a fraction of the revenue they get now if the brakes were OE on the E9x M3's. BMW cars are a cash cows for Brembo. No way they want to lose that lucrative aftermarket revenue stream.

From what I am told, BMW has several OE supplier contracts where they agree NOT to build or market a competing product in the open marketplace. (where the OE supplier would be a direct competitor)

BMW has those same OE suppliers under contract to build the 'performance parts' that they market as optional upgrades...therefore the problem of direct competition is avoided.

I can't prove this, but the source who told me this has always provided good and accurate info in the past. That's all I know.

What does BMW get out of this agreement - payments from Brembo? I don't understand why they would ever enter in to an agreement like this. Also, paying a company not to compete can run into trouble in a hurry.

[mPlasticDesign]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

I spoke to Brembo before and during SEMA last year. They basically have three separate divisions. 1) OEM. 2) Aftermarket. 3) Racing. The OEM division usually is patent-heavy and under contract from big manufacturers. The patents are owned by the auto manufacturs, not Brembo. This is why you don't see Brembo Carbon-Ceramic brakes on their aftermaket cars, even though they make them OE for Porsche and/or Ferrari (I can't remember which one, if not both). And they also mentioned to me in their aftermaket division, that there was a car-price demographic they target. If I remember correctly, $100,000 sounds like it was exactly what I think they said.

Sweet Brakes but over $8,000 option.... OUCH!

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by kmac1980

What is their criteria for this, and why not BMW? I mean g35s got it, and apparently one of the reasons infiniti pulled the plug there is owners complained about the short pad life. Hyundai Genesis coupes are getting them OE, Subaru STIs got(get?) them, and you can't say the subaru STI owner isn't just as "mod happy" as the bmw crowd, if not more so. (eating into potential aftermarket money)

As well, many "high end" parts companies offer a certain level of product to the OE market, which a substantially stronger product for the aftermarket crowd (great examples in car audio such as Rockford Fosgate). I'm assuming your aftermarket brembo BBK for the m3 is a much stronger product than the units that came stock on a G35....

Not that I disagree with your overall point, I just wonder about some of the rationale involved.

You are preaching to the choir.

I was confused by the way these things are negotiated myself. My basic arguement was the same. Why does a $35,000 STI get Brembo's from the factory stock, and my $70,000 M3 gets ATE brakes. (which are also pretty good brakes)

It never made any sense to me, until I was told how the automobile manufacturers (and the third-party parts vendors) have inside deals for certian individual models.

The OE manufacturers know which crowd buys what, and how much they are willing to pay to aquire a certian part. They crunch the numbers, and they make a knowledgeable decision to pursue some markets thru OE applications, and others in the aftermarket.

In Brembos asseesment, BMW M3 owners can afford to pay 5-7 thousand dollars for a front and rear BBK. (this is backed up by historical president)

Now consider that the average STI owner would never spend that kind of money for upgraded brakes. And even if Brembo OE brakes didn't exist, the aftermarket versions would be priced far cheaper than what we would pay. (by a significant margin)

Brembo knows the market potential of the BMW crowd, and they know they will pay a premium to get their BBK's. That is not something you can say about the owners of every other automobile brand.

BTW: The much cheaper BMW 135i has Brembo brakes from the factory.

It's not a question of manufacturing costs, it's a result of back door deals by the suits in charge. All of these decisons are contrived and calculated from every possible angle. The M6 cost over $100,000 bucks and it doesn't get Brembo brakes either. That is not a mistake, or the result of penny pinching by the BMW accountants. IT'S BY DESIGN.

Again, if the engineers were in charge, BREMBO or AP RACING brakes would be on every M3 sold.

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by signes

What does BMW get out of this agreement - payments from Brembo? I don't understand why they would ever enter in to an agreement like this. Also, paying a company not to compete can run into trouble in a hurry.

No, they don't have any extortion payments from what I understand.

They just agree to allow a OE vendor NOT to produce a brake kit for a particular car even thought they may be contractually obligated to do so.

That's where the private agreements come into play. Brembo may request an out on a specific BMW OE application, becuase their own internal numbers suggest that more money can potentially be made in the aftermarket on certain models. BMW grants the request, and simply hires another OE manufacturer on their list. This is one of the reasons why automotive manufacturers have more than one OE supplier under contract at all times.

It's a cost/benefit analysis thing for OE suppliers.

Brembo gets what they want, and BMW has a little leverage in the next OE contract negotiations.

There is absolutely nothing illegal about this whatsoever. The two separate companies simply take care of one another.
That's how big business operates in the real world.

[signes]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

No, they don't have any extortion payments from what I understand.

They just agree to allow a OE vendor NOT to produce a brake kit for a particular car even thought they may be contractually obligated to do so.

That's where the private agreements come into play. Brembo may request an out on a specific BMW OE application, becuase their own internal numbers suggest that more money can potentially be made in the aftermarket on certain models. BMW grants the request, and simply hires another OE manufacturer on their list. This is one of the reasons why automotive manufacturers have more than one OE supplier under contract at all times.

It's a cost/benefit analysis thing for OE suppliers.

Brembo gets what they want, and BMW has a little leverage in the next OE contract negotiations.

There is absolutely nothing illegal about this whatsoever. The two separate companies simply take care of one another.
That's how big business operates in the real world.

I am not following this at all. In your first post, you stated "BMW has signed a non-compete clause with all the large aftermarket companies", for which they get no consideration. Still don't get that at all, why would they give up the right to sell something and get nothing in return? And with "all" large aftermarket mfgs? Then they allow a supplier out of an obligation to produce a part, so this would imply that "all" large aftermarket companies have contracts with BMW to supply parts on demand? I just can't see that. Not trying to pick a fight, just don't follow the logic here.

[993 911]

It's my understanding that BMW Performance will never offer parts specifically for an M-car as it is a BMW division that is completely separate from M-gmbH subsidiary. The focus of the Performance line will always be sporty models that don't bear the M badge.

As far as why the 135i comes stock with Brembo's and the M3 doesn't, it's all marketing. The M3 stops from 60-0 in 100ft, it takes the 135i an extra 8 feet or so. The heavier M3 is able to stop faster than the lighter 135i bearing prettier, brand names brakes...

BMW was smart enough to realize it is a huge selling point for a sub-50k sports car to slap a factory Brembo "BBK" on it and Brembo realized the majority of 135i owners won't be spending around 10-15% of the MSRP of their car on racing brakes. For both parties it was worth making the deal happen.

And I think LeMans Blue has the right idea, Brembo doesn't want their branding on the stock brakes of a vehicle that is likely to get an upgrade in the future. If I had factory Brembo brakes that I felt needed upgrading would I be likely to buy a beefier Brembo kit or try another company like Wilwood or AP Racing?