Oil

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by Donbona

This one

This is the new packaging. Note on the back the, "Exclusively approved for the M3, M5, M6 Z4M & Z8 Models".

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by linsm3

OK, help me out here, you wouldn't want to use 10w-60 in the cold weather right and is this just to top it off, what is in there now, sorry if this is a stupid question but I thought it would screw the engine up if used other than in warm weather, am I wrong?

Relax, there is no reason to worry if you are using the proper engine oil.

Your car is filled with approx 9.3 quarts (8.8 liters) of Castrol 10w-60 TWS engine oil at the dealership.

This oil was formulated to work in both bitter cold conditions and extremely hot conditions, through a joint project between Castrol and BMW Motorsport engineers.

This Group IV PAO ESTER based 10w-60 fully-synthetic product is the most versatile engine oil on the market.

In extremely HOT conditions it has the thick film-strength of a 60 weight oil. This helps to protect the bearings and the wearable surfaces of the valvetrain. In extremely COLD conditions, this oil can flow like a 10 weight motor oil, to quickly lubricate all the internal parts so initial start up wear is reduced.

The science behind this synthetic oil is is very impressive, and a great deal of R&D was was put forth to develop it for BMW's race teams in the mid 1990's.

A few years later, it was adopted as the factory recommended oil for the E39 M5, and the E46 M3 a few years later. The Castrol 10w-60 oil is arguably the best high performance engine oil on the market.

This oil also contains anti-corrosion additives, and other synthetic stabilizers that improve it's anti-shearing properties as well. So even under high rpm loads and intense heat, the oil does not break down like a conventional petroleum based Group II or III 'cat-cracked' motor oil would. A 'normal' motor oil cannot compete with the protection level provided by the Castrol 10w-60 TWS for our high revving NA engines.

BTW: This oil is refined and bottled in Germany by Castrol, so it has to be shipped out to BMW dealerships all over the world. It is not spot produced in various refineries like gasoline.

This is the primary reason it costs so much per liter...

[Eugene-TAIWAN]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

So you are saying that RED LINE oil makes a secret 10w-60 synthetic engine oil?

Please post up that photo of this mystery oil. I'm very interested to see it.

It's strange that it's not on their own website...

I ran Red Line motor oil in my E36 M3 a looooooong time ago.

HERE ARE THE picture that I took with my phone! its bad quality

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by Eugene-TAIWAN

HERE ARE THE picture that I took with my phone! its bad quality

With as many knock-offs as you seem to find in Asia, I'd be afraid it was fake. You say RedLine acknowledges producing it? Regardless, I say stick with the BMW-approved stuff. Replacement engines come very dear and your warranty could be in jeopardy.

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by Eugene-TAIWAN

HERE ARE THE picture that I took with my phone! its bad quality

Now this is getting weird...

I have never seen this oil anywhere before now. I find it hard to believe that RED LINE is producing this oil themselves. It would make more sense if a foreign subsidiary or third-party was producing this under license.

I'm going to contact RED LINE tomorrow just to satisfy my own curiosity.

If RED LINE Oil (USA) does produce this oil in-house, I'll see if I can get a .pdf of their spec sheet. That way, I can compare this oil to the Castrol 10w-60 TWS factory spec sheet I acquired a few years back.

[gemini330zhp]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Now this is getting weird...

I have never seen this oil anywhere before now. I find it hard to believe that RED LINE is producing this oil themselves. It would make more sense if a foreign subsidiary or third-party was producing this under license.

I'm going to contact RED LINE tomorrow just to satisfy my own curiosity.

If RED LINE Oil (USA) does produce this oil in-house, I'll see if I can get a .pdf of their spec sheet. That way, I can compare this oil to the Castrol 10w-60 TWS factory spec sheet I acquired a few years back.

Could be for the European and Asian Market. I know there are a few companies that make 10w60 besides castrol.

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Btw: Eugene, what was the name of the store where you bought this oil?

[Eugene-TAIWAN]

Heres the online site http://carlifeisland.shop.rakuten.tw/gold/

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Btw: Eugene, what was the name of the store where you bought this oil?

Its called Yellow Hat

Eugene

[linsm3]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Relax, there is no reason to worry if you are using the proper engine oil.

Your car is filled with approx 9.3 quarts (8.8 liters) of Castrol 10w-60 TWS engine oil at the dealership.

This oil was formulated to work in both bitter cold conditions and extremely hot conditions, through a joint project between Castrol and BMW Motorsport engineers.

This Group IV PAO ESTER based 10w-60 fully-synthetic product is the most versatile engine oil on the market.

In extremely HOT conditions it has the thick film-strength of a 60 weight oil. This helps to protect the bearings and the wearable surfaces of the valvetrain. In extremely COLD conditions, this oil can flow like a 10 weight motor oil, to quickly lubricate all the internal parts so initial start up wear is reduced.

The science behind this synthetic oil is is very impressive, and a great deal of R&D was was put forth to develop it for BMW's race teams in the mid 1990's.

A few years later, it was adopted as the factory recommended oil for the E39 M5, and the E46 M3 a few years later. The Castrol 10w-60 oil is arguably the best high performance engine oil on the market.

This oil also contains anti-corrosion additives, and other synthetic stabilizers that improve it's anti-shearing properties as well. So even under high rpm loads and intense heat, the oil does not break down like a conventional petroleum based Group II or III 'cat-cracked' motor oil would. A 'normal' motor oil cannot compete with the protection level provided by the Castrol 10w-60 TWS for our high revving NA engines.

BTW: This oil is refined and bottled in Germany by Castrol, so it has to be shipped out to BMW dealerships all over the world. It is not spot produced in various refineries like gasoline.

This is the primary reason it costs so much per liter...

Thanks so much for your detailed explanation, I really appreciate it, I just don't want to screw something up and it's better to ask, Thanks again!

[Checkcaptain]

I do highly recommend Shell Helix Ultra Racing 10W-60. I have my 5th M now and I always replaced the Castrol stock oil by Shell oil during the 2.000km / 1.200mls service.
Thereafter I do oilchanges all 10.000km. In between there is no refill required and the 10.000km always include about 1.500 - 2.000km on track
Of course you folks in the US have your oil, pads and other stuff included in the service, but never the less this product is perfect.
BTW it was developed for Ferrari F1.

[Checkcaptain]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

With as many knock-offs as you seem to find in Asia, I'd be afraid it was fake. You say RedLine acknowledges producing it? Regardless, I say stick with the BMW-approved stuff. Replacement engines come very dear and your warranty could be in jeopardy.

When you are using 10W60, no matter which brand, the warranty is covered!
BMW can not force you to go for a specific brand, only because they get sponsored in their Mororsport activities by them! They just recommend it...

[Eugene-TAIWAN]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Now this is getting weird...

I have never seen this oil anywhere before now. I find it hard to believe that RED LINE is producing this oil themselves. It would make more sense if a foreign subsidiary or third-party was producing this under license.

I'm going to contact RED LINE tomorrow just to satisfy my own curiosity.

If RED LINE Oil (USA) does produce this oil in-house, I'll see if I can get a .pdf of their spec sheet. That way, I can compare this oil to the Castrol 10w-60 TWS factory spec sheet I acquired a few years back.

Dude !! Let me know if you find out anything cause I am also looking into this on my side hear as well

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by Checkcaptain

I do highly recommend Shell Helix Ultra Racing 10W-60. I have my 5th M now and I always replaced the Castrol stock oil by Shell oil during the 2.000km / 1.200mls service.
Thereafter I do oilchanges all 10.000km. In between there is no refill required and the 10.000km always include about 1.500 - 2.000km on track
Of course you folks in the US have your oil, pads and other stuff included in the service, but never the less this product is perfect.
BTW it was developed for Ferrari F1.

Well that's a good alternative that I would even consider but it's as expensive (or more in some places) as the Castrol 10w-60 TWS sold in the United States market.

Now you left out a few things... like how this oil is the only factory approved engine oil for several Ferrari models.

The Helix oil was co-developed by Shell and Ferrari engineers, much in the same way BMW and Castrol engineers developed the TWS.

These two synthetic oils are probably the most over engineered products for our our street engines due to the resources that all four companies contributed to their development. They were both designed to handle engine stress loads that our street cars can never truly simulate.

BTW: The Shell Helix Ultra isn't any better than the Castrol TWS. (specs wise) It's just an equivalent alternative. Castrol TWS was also co-developed for the BMW Williams F1 team in the mid-90's.

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by Checkcaptain

When you are using 10W60, no matter which brand, the warranty is covered!
BMW can not force you to go for a specific brand, only because they get sponsored in their Mororsport activities by them! They just recommend it...

Not exactly.

BMW has an 'approved oil list' where all the vendors who manufacture oil products must meet their minimum service life and wear protection thresholds. Period.

If the oil you are using does not display the "BMW approved" designation on the back of the bottle...then your engine warranty could be voided if there is a problem at any point in the future.

BMW's current special oil approval program list for M cars:

Castrol 10w-60 TWS

Castrol EDGE 10W-60

These are the only engine oils in the world that are approved by BMW for use in the E39, E46, and E9x M3's.

If the Helix ULTRA 10w-60 is also approved for use in the "M" engines, then then by all means post up a pic of that...

BTW: It's not "a sponsorship thing" as you put it. This oil was actually formulated to work specifically with high compression , high revving, naturally aspirated engines that our M division builds. Please don't marginalize all the hard work that went into the R&D of this oil. Thanks.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

If the oil you are using does not display the "BMW approved" designation on the back of the bottle...then your engine warranty could be voided if there is a problem at any point in the future.

I assume the "exclusive approval for BMW M..." on the back of the Castrol bottle means just that.

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

I assume the "exclusive approval for BMW M..." on the back of the Castrol bottle means just that.

Correct.

Although, that same approval is also transfered over to the Castrol EDGE 10w-60 which is another version of this oil sold in select world markets.

[JAJ]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

BTW: The oil chemistry used in the Castrol TWS was slightly modified from the old Castrol RS racing synthetic motor oil used in the race cars...

What evidence do you have for the "slightly modified" comment? BMW didn't change the part number for the "M" oil when they went from Castrol RS to TWS (I have an RS bottle in my garage with a BMW part number sticker on it) which, along with the TSB they issued makes it pretty clear that the name changed on the bottle but the oil inside specifically did not.

I just checked my UOA analysis records on TWS stretching from 2005 to three months ago and there's no significant difference in the additive levels.

TWS, according to what BMW published, is exactly the previous (prior to 2000) Castrol Racing Syntec 10w-60. When Castrol changed the formulation of their over-the-counter RS in 2000, BMW bought the exclusive rights to the old formula, relabeled it TWS and kept the production running. In 2005 the exclusivity ended and Castrol brought "Edge 10w-60" to market to compete with TWS.

What's significant about TWS is that it is the oil that BMW Motorsport uses in racing engines. It's not a replica or a retail brand - it's the same stuff. It's on par with racing oils like Motul 300V and the other "real" racing products. People slag it because the dealers sell it, but it's actually much better than most people realize.

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by JAJ

What evidence do you have for the "slightly modified" comment? BMW didn't change the part number for the "M" oil when they went from Castrol RS to TWS (I have an RS bottle in my garage with a BMW part number sticker on it) which, along with the TSB they issued makes it pretty clear that the name changed on the bottle but the oil inside specifically did not.

I just checked my UOA analysis records on TWS stretching from 2005 to three months ago and there's no significant difference in the additive levels.

TWS, according to what BMW published, is exactly the previous (prior to 2000) Castrol Racing Syntec 10w-60. When Castrol changed the formulation of their over-the-counter RS in 2000, BMW bought the exclusive rights to the old formula, relabeled it TWS and kept the production running. In 2005 the exclusivity ended and Castrol brought "Edge 10w-60" to market to compete with TWS.

What's significant about TWS is that it is the oil that BMW Motorsport uses in racing engines. It's not a replica or a retail brand - it's the same stuff. It's on par with racing oils like Motul 300V and the other "real" racing products. People slag it because the dealers sell it, but it's actually much better than most people realize.

Yes that's right, there were two versions of the Castrol RS oil in 2000.

One commercially available over the counter, and one through racing distributors/dealers only.

I got the RS that eventually became TWS confused with the other RS formula I was thinking about earlier.

That was a convoluted way of handling things by both BMW and Castrol, and I forgot about that messy exchange in 2000 until you brought it up. Thanks for the clarification.

[Eugene-TAIWAN]

did anyone find out anything about the redline oil?

[niqui]

how does LUBRIOIL stack up?

I just add extra virgin olive oil on me since oil is just oil

[H Bomb]

which one is better the Edge or the TWS??

also isn't it a type of blend and not fully synthetic??

thanks

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Not exactly.

BMW has an 'approved oil list' where all the vendors who manufacture oil products must meet their minimum service life and wear protection thresholds. Period.

If the oil you are using does not display the "BMW approved" designation on the back of the bottle...then your engine warranty could be voided if there is a problem at any point in the future.

BMW's current special oil approval program list for M cars:

Castrol 10w-60 TWS

Castrol EDGE 10W-60

These are the only engine oils in the world that are approved by BMW for use in the E39, E46, and E9x M3's.

If the Helix ULTRA 10w-60 is also approved for use in the "M" engines, then then by all means post up a pic of that...

BTW: It's not "a sponsorship thing" as you put it. This oil was actually formulated to work specifically with high compression , high revving, naturally aspirated engines that our M division builds. Please don't marginalize all the hard work that went into the R&D of this oil. Thanks.