414 + 86 = 500 hp

[Nawaaz]

Pure and simple:

How do I reach 500 hp with my stock M3?

fyi, I'm already planning to go with a full catless exhaust system, pulley, air filter, rpi scoops, and an aggressive ECU upgrade.

Do you think I'll be able to reach 500? If not, what else can I do to reach my goal?

Thank you for any help possible.

[swamp2]

In short without FI, no you won't make it. Have you seen the stickied Dyno database? That would answer this question without doubt. However, common sense would as well.

[NFDoms2k1]

Probably simpler to shoot for 400 rwhp, which is probably the same as 500 crank anyway.

[NFDoms2k1]

Originally Posted by swamp2

In short without FI, no you won't make it. Have you seen the stickied Dyno database? That would answer this question without doubt. However, common sense would as well.

Oh, and yes thats probably not going to happen anyway without F/I or stroked

[niqui]

i don't think you' ll hit 500. but more like 480 max, slightly optomistic/
cause the gains you will see wont be the stated individual gains, combining mods reduces each components individual stated gains.
then it comes down to little things, like which exhaust, which ecu tune, which filter, etc...this can make a couple of hp difference, but nothing drastic.

only thing i can think of is that would get you close is maybe the dinan 4.10 and a gruppe m intake (but thats no big gain),short of s/c ing it, i dont think there is much else you can do man.
maybe change to lighter rims, exhaust, etc to keep weight down.

[powertrip]

I'm pretty sure Jon Martin's car was 500hp at the crank before his supercharger...maybe PG can chime in here and confirm.

[SlammedR8]

Originally Posted by NFDoms2k1

Probably simpler to shoot for 400 rwhp, which is probably the same as 500 crank anyway.

+1

i dynoed 394 hp @ the wheels. and I cant remember what the proper calculation is (% wise). but the dyno guys told me if its pushing 394 at the wheels, your looking at around 470-475 @ the crank.

im sure PG can chime in on what the proper percent is to be used to calculate crank hp

[Lemans_Blue_M]

Originally Posted by NFDoms2k1

Oh, and yes thats probably not going to happen anyway without F/I or stroked

Actually...that last part is wrong.

Stroked 4.6 liter S65 motors are making over 500 crank hp.

[C17MooseDriver]

Originally Posted by slammedm3

+1

i dynoed 394 hp @ the wheels. and I cant remember what the proper calculation is (% wise). but the dyno guys told me if its pushing 394 at the wheels, your looking at around 470-475 @ the crank.

im sure PG can chime in on what the proper percent is to be used to calculate crank hp

That seems pretty high for just a pulley, ecu tune, and filter.

[Nawaaz]

Originally Posted by swamp2

In short without FI, no you won't make it. Have you seen the stickied Dyno database? That would answer this question without doubt. However, common sense would as well.

Yeah, I'm not planning on supercharging.

Originally Posted by NFDoms2k1

Probably simpler to shoot for 400 rwhp, which is probably the same as 500 crank anyway.

You're correct, thank you.

Originally Posted by NFDoms2k1

Oh, and yes thats probably not going to happen anyway without F/I or stroked

Oh, ok.

Originally Posted by niqui

i don't think you' ll hit 500. but more like 480 max, slightly optomistic/
cause the gains you will see wont be the stated individual gains, combining mods reduces each components individual stated gains.
then it comes down to little things, like which exhaust, which ecu tune, which filter, etc...this can make a couple of hp difference, but nothing drastic.

only thing i can think of is that would get you close is maybe the dinan 4.10 and a gruppe m intake (but thats no big gain),short of s/c ing it, i dont think there is much else you can do man.
maybe change to lighter rims, exhaust, etc to keep weight down.

I'll probably stick to the mods planned, and nothing more or less. Thanks for the helpful ideas though.

Originally Posted by powertrip

I'm pretty sure Jon Martin's car was 500hp at the crank before his supercharger...maybe PG can chime in here and confirm.

Another one of Gintani's customers "Niterider" hit 392.5 whp with similar bolt-on's that I'm planning on. I think that's getting closer to my goal.

Originally Posted by slammedm3

+1

i dynoed 394 hp @ the wheels. and I cant remember what the proper calculation is (% wise). but the dyno guys told me if its pushing 394 at the wheels, your looking at around 470-475 @ the crank.

im sure PG can chime in on what the proper percent is to be used to calculate crank hp

Looks like I'm looking at falling into similar #'s as well. Thank you sir.

[Swancoat]

Originally Posted by niqui

i don't think you' ll hit 500. but more like 480 max, slightly optomistic/
cause the gains you will see wont be the stated individual gains, combining mods reduces each components individual stated gains.
then it comes down to little things, like which exhaust, which ecu tune, which filter, etc...this can make a couple of hp difference, but nothing drastic.

only thing i can think of is that would get you close is maybe the dinan 4.10 and a gruppe m intake (but thats no big gain),short of s/c ing it, i dont think there is much else you can do man.
maybe change to lighter rims, exhaust, etc to keep weight down.

New rear-end gears aren't going to get you any more HP.

[AMPowerJ]

Everyone is forgetting 100+ octane fuel. That alone should give you about 30 hp so you could achieve your goal at the crank without FI.

[niqui]

Originally Posted by Swancoat

New rear-end gears aren't going to get you any more HP.

i meant just in the sense of more overall power, not really in terms of hitting that number, if you know what i mean.
but yes, i stand corrected.

[QTRM3]

2-stage Nitrous start with 50 and then add another 50 = 100 shots.... thats what I am thinking to do after the dinan deff

[Jasonq]

Originally Posted by slammedm3

+1

i dynoed 394 hp @ the wheels. and I cant remember what the proper calculation is (% wise). but the dyno guys told me if its pushing 394 at the wheels, your looking at around 470-475 @ the crank.

im sure PG can chime in on what the proper percent is to be used to calculate crank hp

394hp@the wheels? what have you done? Thanks

[mixja]

Only way I can see this happening would be to change cams, increase your redline to 9000RPM (which probably means modifying your valve train) and run high octane gas...to make 500HP at say 8800RPM you need to making just under 300 ftlb torque @ 8800RPM... quite a different equation from making 500HP at 8000RPM which requires 330ftlb torque....

Changing your cams to make this power would shift your power band though, the car would lose torque below 5000RPM...

I think it's certainly possible though, at the sacrifice of low-mid RPM torque...

[Nawaaz]

Originally Posted by AMPowerJ

Everyone is forgetting 100+ octane fuel. That alone should give you about 30 hp so you could achieve your goal at the crank without FI.

Thank you. I'll keep that one in mind.

Originally Posted by QTRM3

2-stage Nitrous start with 50 and then add another 50 = 100 shots.... thats what I am thinking to do after the dinan deff

Another good idea for me. Thanks.

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

Here's the best N/A 4.0L results thus far:
Dynojet: Dogears @ 383
Mustang: QTRM3 @ 393
Dyno Dynamics: Niterider @ 393




100 Octane and a hub-attached dyno shows it to be approximately 12.2% loss. But remember, the losses will be a little over 24% by the time you get down to 91 octane. That doesn't mean the drivetrain losses have changed from 12 to 24% -- it only means that 91 octane sucks for performance.
91 Octane is

I'm looking to at least have Niterider's 393 whp.

Originally Posted by mixja

Only way I can see this happening would be to change cams, increase your redline to 9000RPM (which probably means modifying your valve train) and run high octane gas...to make 500HP at say 8800RPM you need to making just under 300 ftlb torque @ 8800RPM... quite a different equation from making 500HP at 8000RPM which requires 330ftlb torque....

Changing your cams to make this power would shift your power band though, the car would lose torque below 5000RPM...

I think it's certainly possible though, at the sacrifice of low-mid RPM torque...

Oh man, wouldn't want to sacrifice anything to reach 500. I just want all-around gains.

[duk]

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

Actually...that last part is wrong.

Stroked 4.6 liter S65 motors are making over 500 crank hp.

RDS stroked motor is making 530bhp i believe! AMAZING!!

I just want 460bhp and I'll be a happy camper! Exhaust, X-pipe with HFC, ECU and intake should do the job nicely!

[Nawaaz]

Originally Posted by duk

RDS stroked motor is making 530bhp i believe! AMAZING!!

I just want 460bhp and I'll be a happy camper! Exhaust, X-pipe with HFC, ECU and intake should do the job nicely!

Same here man. I guess all the basics will have to do for me.

Good luck!

[stylinexpat]

Originally Posted by Nawaaz

Same here man. I guess all the basics will have to do for me.

Good luck!

Me too, we should look for a group buy on these tunes. I am thinking about the Titanium exhaust though..

[mPlasticDesign]

Originally Posted by Swancoat

New rear-end gears aren't going to get you any more HP.

No, but more importantly, with a DINAN LSD final drive ratio of 3.62, "taking full advantage of torque multiplication for an eye opening 14.9% increase in torque delivered to the road!" I actually think this is the best bang for the buck in NA mods.

[graider]

Originally Posted by ///Metak

No, but more importantly, with a DINAN LSD final drive ratio of 3.62, "taking full advantage of torque multiplication for an eye opening 14.9% increase in torque delivered to the road!" I actually think this is the best bang for the buck in NA mods.

I thinks this takes out the fun though. the whole point for a small displacement engine with high redline is to rev the hell out of it and hear that wonderful engine and exhaust note. If you are trying to add more torque, then you won't need to rev it that much to get going.

A good example is the c6 z06. At no load, it sound loud and monsterous. But underload, too quiet since there is so much torque and you don't really need to rev it at all to get going.