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12-12-2013, 11:09 PM | #45 | |
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Torque drops right past 5,500 RPM about....Rev past it and it'll fall flat on it's face. You'll be doing a lot of shifting. HP does keep increasing but that's not surprising. |
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12-13-2013, 01:38 AM | #46 | |
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the new car is not going to sound like previous 6 cylinder m3. thos turbos kills noise. specially in stock forum. car sounds bad to the point where BMW knew it wasn't good so they added the active sound. |
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12-13-2013, 05:27 AM | #47 | |
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I had an FBO 335i back in the day and keeping it in gear without upshifting, above 6k rpm when letting up on the gas, those small turbo's and engine sounded horrible, like in pain. Have you guys noticed, on the E9X M3 intro videos the engine sound was loud, the F80/82 videos it's as if the engine sound is muted? When the E36 M3 came some owners said good night to the E30 M3 even though the E30 M3 is more special. And the ones that kept their E30 M3, boy! Arent they glad they did. imo two of the most desirable M3's, one is a NA 4 and the other is a NA V8 in a sea of inline 6's. Hahaha |
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12-13-2013, 05:30 AM | #48 |
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The new car will be great, there are no doubts about it. Well, looks wise, the front hood/line hopefully get addressed with an LCI. I'm dying to get a V8 and hopefully will pick one up in a year or so.
For a current M3 owner, I just don't understand why one would "upgrade" to the newer model given that, as stated, both are already too much car, unless your lease is up. I've been fortunate enough to have been piloted around in an M3 at LRP and the sound of that motor or magical and will NEVER EVER be replaced with a twin turbo. We have a 5GT in the family and it sounds good but it's not even close... As for issues with the turbos, if you worry about maintenance, perhaps you shouldn't drive a BMW! Cherish your cars and take good care of them, questionable looks and 150 less pounds of weight aren't reasons enough to drop another 30-40K to upgrade to the new model... |
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12-13-2013, 10:01 AM | #50 | |
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Look, it ain't rocket science. Figuring rpm drop, gear to gear, is as easy as dividing the gear ratio in the next gear by the ratio of the gear you're in, and multiplying that number times the rpm at the shift point. So, getting as accurate as I can with the ratios of the current car, you divide 2.396 (second gear ratio) by 4.065 (first gear ratio), giving you a one-two relationship of .58942, times the shift-point rpm of 8400, giving you 4951 rpm after the one-two shift. Easy. As for the video, it shows a slightly surprising two-step drop in rpm on the one-two shift, which I assume is either from wheelspin or momentary clutch slip, or both. The thing is, during that momentary drop, hesitate, drop period of time, the car is still accelerating, so the tach will never drop back to 4951 rpm, but only back to something higher than that due to the acceleration that occurred during that transition from first to second. Capiche? Bruce PS - As far as I can tell, KennyPowers is the guy in this string who absolutely gets it. Last edited by bruce.augenstein@comcast.; 12-13-2013 at 10:27 AM.. Reason: Punctuation |
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12-13-2013, 10:39 AM | #51 |
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in the video, he shifts well before 8000, and lands well above 5000.
Maybe you're ratios are wrong. I haven't looked into it. I know how to calculate gear trains and ratio and proportion. I'm just not confident in your numbers. |
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12-13-2013, 11:11 AM | #52 |
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12-13-2013, 11:35 AM | #53 | |
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Given all the issues the VW guys are having with carbon build up in their DI engines, I'm glad they *didn't* incorporate DI into the S65, otherwise, I would not have purchased the car. http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-up-Megathread |
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12-13-2013, 03:35 PM | #55 |
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Until people have the opportunity to really drive the new M3/4 and give an honest comparison to the e9x, this is all mental masturbation.
That being said, there was no other direction to really go if the straight line speed capability was going to be improved upon. The car simply needed more torque in order to do this. That could only be acheived with forced induction or larger displacement. Larger dispalcement means more weight and even worse fuel economy, so it was obvious that was not about to occur. Let's just wait and see.
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12-13-2013, 09:44 PM | #57 | |
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But one thing that struck me is that unless you are a very good driver, the new turbo M3/4 is going to be a handful when trying to get to the limit, and that is precisely because of the crazy amount of instant torque at all revs. Very easy to overdo it and lose traction. By comparison, for an intermediate driver, the long squeeze on the throttle of the current M3 is a lot easier to modulate and to anticipate. So the hell-fire cat that is the current M3 might actually be the more suitable car for track beginners! Walter Roehrl, of rally and Porsche fame, said something similar about the Porsche 911 turbo: great in a straight line, but racing other cars on a twisty track he said he preferred the non-turbo 911. At any rate, it's gonna be great having five fantastic generations of the M3 on the road after all these years!! |
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12-14-2013, 12:25 AM | #58 |
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I'm expecting endless amounts of threads that have the words Limp Mode, Overheated , track, and turbo lag in them. Should be interesting.
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12-14-2013, 08:00 AM | #61 | |
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High torque is also problematic to get to the ground without AWD, and if you do this, the overall steering feel and responsiveness gets dulled down. Certain pure sport cars obviouly have a design advantage in order to optimize this, but you are still constrained by the limits of physics. Bascially, a turbo motor is good for straight line power at the expense of a number of subjective driving elements. I am still waiting eagerly to see what engineering tricks BMW will pull out of the hat to try and maintain the crisp throttle response that the e9x M3 was renowned for. They know that they can't miss the mark by too much or there goes the crown.
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--Former BMW M3 owner Last edited by LarThaL; 12-14-2013 at 08:12 AM.. |
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12-14-2013, 08:16 AM | #62 |
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It appears that the useable powerband will be much narrower. Off the line, the traction mechanisms will have to seriously cut power to overcome that initial torque swell. Later, as pointed out, the car starts to run out of steam.
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12-14-2013, 09:19 AM | #64 | |
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2019 Imperial Blue Metallic i3s BEV
2003 Le Mans Blue e39 M5 Dinan S1 1997 Alpine White e36 M3 (the old gal) 2013 Mineral White e92 M3 (sold ) 2014 Carbon Black 650i M-sport (sold) |
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12-14-2013, 12:03 PM | #65 | |
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Otherwise I think you just get used to driving at constant power, ie anything above 5500 revs has full power. So shifting up leads to no drop off in the rate of acceleration, unlike in the present S65. On the other hand, accelerating in any gear after 5500 revs leads to a reduction in the rate of acceleration, again unlike the s65, which maintains constant rate of acceleration until redline. It's different, that's for sure. |
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12-14-2013, 12:04 PM | #66 | |
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