Track forum general chit chat.

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Didn't the M3 GT4 have an uprated rear bar and stock front bar? Adding some rear bar stiffness relative to the front must've had some balance benefit. This is basically what I can achieve with front and rear adjustable bars.

Also, saying bars just increase rate and to just increase spring rate is a bit of an oversimplification. There are other factors, and tricks potentially involved. For example, what if you want to drop the front end under braking for aero benefits? A softer spring and stiffer bar setup will let you do that more. Could be especially useful for a car driven on the street still.

I said it multiplies the spring rate which is what you just said albeit slightly differently.

Like you said it's all about what problem you are trying to solve.

I was getting a ton of roll in the corners. I went to stiffest setting on my Hotchkis but it wasn't enough.

Then I switched from KW V3 with progressive springs to MCS with linear and stiffer springs then went back to softest sway bar settings. I think i could've just stayed stock with the MCS setup and full aero and would've been hunky dory. YMMV.

My opinion is that as long as you're within spitting distance of a proper setup that most of us on here aren't precise enough in our driving to truly wring out the cars suspension ability.

My coach is a pro driver and race engineer. When he jumps in my car (with a setup that is basically untouched in the last 3 years short of bi annual damper rebuilds), he can always find 2-3 seconds without doing anything to my suspension. We touched the damper settings once two years ago that's been it. If I tell him I am understeering on entry or mid corner or oversteering on exit, we don't get under the car and adjust sway bars. We work on car placement and brake and throttle application. I am not saying that suspension stuff doesn't matter because it does ... to a point ... but there are so many issues that result from sub optimum technique that folks attribute to suspension handling. Understeer on mid corner is classic example where folks will chase sway bar settings when it could simply be over braking and then trying to get back on power when the weight is no longer on the nose.

These are only my opinions. I am not a suspension engineer so I defer ultimately to the experts on this subject.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

I said it multiplies the spring rate which is what you just said albeit slightly differently.

Like you said it's all about what problem you are trying to solve.

I was getting a ton of roll in the corners. I went to stiffest setting on my Hotchkis but it wasn't enough.

Then I switched from KW V3 with progressive springs to MCS with linear and stiffer springs then went back to softest sway bar settings. I think i could've just stayed stock with the MCS setup and full aero and would've been hunky dory. YMMV.

My opinion is that as long as you're within spitting distance of a proper setup that most of us on here aren't precise enough in our driving to truly wring out the cars suspension ability.

My coach is a pro driver and race engineer. When he jumps in my car (with a setup that is basically untouched in the last 3 years short of bi annual damper rebuilds), he can always find 2-3 seconds with doing anything to my suspension. We touched the damper settings once two years ago that's been it. If I tell him I am understeering on entry or mid corner or oversteering on exit, we don't get under the car and adjust sway bars. We work on car placement and brake and throttle application. I am not saying that suspension stuff doesn't matter because it does ... to a point ... but there are so many issues that result from sub optimum technique that folks attribute to suspension handling. Understeer on mid corner is classic example where folks will chase sway bar settings when it could simply be over braking and then trying to get back on power when the weight is no longer on the nose.

These are only my opinions. I am not a suspension engineer so I defer ultimately to the experts on this subject.

In general I agree with all of your points. Especially many people trying to rotate the car unsuccessfully with the weight off the nose, and getting on throttle with the car already understeering. Makes you cringe a little when you're in the right seat haha.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

I said it multiplies the spring rate which is what you just said albeit slightly differently.

Like you said it's all about what problem you are trying to solve.

I was getting a ton of roll in the corners. I went to stiffest setting on my Hotchkis but it wasn't enough.

Then I switched from KW V3 with progressive springs to MCS with linear and stiffer springs then went back to softest sway bar settings. I think i could've just stayed stock with the MCS setup and full aero and would've been hunky dory. YMMV.

My opinion is that as long as you're within spitting distance of a proper setup that most of us on here aren't precise enough in our driving to truly wring out the cars suspension ability.

My coach is a pro driver and race engineer. When he jumps in my car (with a setup that is basically untouched in the last 3 years short of bi annual damper rebuilds), he can always find 2-3 seconds with doing anything to my suspension. We touched the damper settings once two years ago that's been it. If I tell him I am understeering on entry or mid corner or oversteering on exit, we don't get under the car and adjust sway bars. We work on car placement and brake and throttle application. I am not saying that suspension stuff doesn't matter because it does ... to a point ... but there are so many issues that result from sub optimum technique that folks attribute to suspension handling. Understeer on mid corner is classic example where folks will chase sway bar settings when it could simply be over braking and then trying to get back on power when the weight is no longer on the nose.

These are only my opinions. I am not a suspension engineer so I defer ultimately to the experts on this subject.

My coach on Racers360 doesn't care at all about any of my suspension tuning or tire choices. Everything, in his opinion, is mostly driver induced. So much, that when I shared some of the videos on this form of fast guys, he explained how the drivers induced the problem. But the comments around the shared videos went into equipment discussion.

To Thunder point, to manage grip you need to first not induce lose of grip.

part of the hobby is to enjoy your equipment and manage grip. Chose what you like, manage the grip. I do. It is always about what makes you happy not what makes you fast.

Happy New Year everyone

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by rhyary

My coach on Racers360 doesn't care at all about any of my suspension tuning or tire choices. Everything, in his opinion, is mostly driver induced. So much, that when I shared some of the videos on this form of fast guys, he explained how the drivers induced the problem. But the comments around the shared videos went into equipment discussion.

To Thunder point, to manage grip you need to first not induce lose of grip.

part of the hobby is to enjoy your equipment and manage grip. Chose what you like, manage the grip. I do. It is always about what makes you happy not what makes you fast.

Happy New Year everyone

This is a good point. At the end of the day, a good driver can drive around a very poorly setup car and still be quick. Knowing how/having the technique to drive around setup deficiencies is a great skillset to have.

At the end of the day it's always easier (especially on the ego) to blame the car rather then personal driver error(s) and start tinkering with setup to try to band-aid the problem, when in fact the best solution is to work on your technique or adapt your technique to fix the 'problem'. I've done it before and I'm sure many others have as well. With that being said, getting a setup that works well for you is still well worth the effort, but it can only do so much if technique is lacking.

[Bartledoo]

Quick detour from the sway bar saga. I just noticed RTD has been having a 20% of Christmas sale which ends today. Code: RTD20...carry on.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Quick detour from the sway bar saga. I just noticed RTD has been having a 20% of Christmas sale which ends today. Code: RTD20...carry on.

Strongly considering the lock out version. Anyone get one? Are these shipping?

[dparm]

Originally Posted by rhyary

My coach on Racers360 doesn't care at all about any of my suspension tuning or tire choices. Everything, in his opinion, is mostly driver induced. So much, that when I shared some of the videos on this form of fast guys, he explained how the drivers induced the problem. But the comments around the shared videos went into equipment discussion.

To Thunder point, to manage grip you need to first not induce lose of grip.

part of the hobby is to enjoy your equipment and manage grip. Chose what you like, manage the grip. I do. It is always about what makes you happy not what makes you fast.

Happy New Year everyone

This is what I had been saying repeatedly earlier this year.

[Bimmer Barney]

90k to spend on a car that will be used for fair weather drives and track days. Buyer already has an E9xM. What would you buy?

[b4hand]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Barney

90k to spend on a car that will be used for fair weather drives and track days. Buyer already has an E9xM. What would you buy?

Depends on how serious you want it to be for track days.

[Epoustouflant]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Barney

90k to spend on a car that will be used for fair weather drives and track days. Buyer already has an E9xM. What would you buy?

911 GTS or Audi R8?

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Barney

90k to spend on a car that will be used for fair weather drives and track days. Buyer already has an E9xM. What would you buy?

A 2nd E9X M3 with a lot of money left over for sweet mods

M2 CS, 997 GT3, GT4, M4 GTS... so many options honestly.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Barney

90k to spend on a car that will be used for fair weather drives and track days. Buyer already has an E9xM. What would you buy?

OG NSX...and mods...lots of mods.

[Move Over]

Happy New Year to all the track rats on here! Hope you have a great 2021!

[d k]

A Radical, without a doubt.

Originally Posted by Bimmer Barney

90k to spend on a car that will be used for fair weather drives and track days. Buyer already has an E9xM. What would you buy?

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Barney

90k to spend on a car that will be used for fair weather drives and track days. Buyer already has an E9xM. What would you buy?

Porsche GT4 or any other 911 variant

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Barney

90k to spend on a car that will be used for fair weather drives and track days. Buyer already has an E9xM. What would you buy?

Radical, Atom, or some other pure track car. I'd even look at a used M235iR or whatever, too. Heck, you could do something like a Formula Ford or other small spec-series racer.

High end sports cars will put you in the poorhouse from track days. Just look at what brakes and tires cost for an R8, and the shitty selection.

[d k]

Another good option is an older Spec Racer Ford or a Sports 2000 car. Drop in a modern 4cyl (Ford Duratec) and you have a proper, purpose built race car that will run circles around an M3 and tires cost 100 bucks.

[Datka]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Barney

90k to spend on a car that will be used for fair weather drives and track days. Buyer already has an E9xM. What would you buy?

C8 Z06 period.
Will start at $90K base price. Should be a monster even without any modifications.

[OG Shark]

Porsche GT4 or M4 GTS. C8 Z06 could be intriguing but personally would like to give it at least a year to let others beta test it. F80, 82, and 87 CS variants could be contenders as well.

Or start at a lower entry point and build towards 90k. Opens up lots of platforms that you can put money towards improving their track worthiness or increasing the fun factor.

[MULLET]

Originally Posted by Datka

C8 Z06 period.
Will start at $90K base price. Should be a monster even without any modifications.

Wow

[StripclubDJ]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Barney

90k to spend on a car that will be used for fair weather drives and track days. Buyer already has an E9xM. What would you buy?

dacia sandero

/ thread

[DRLane]

Lotus Exige V6 Cup R, upgrade to Harrop SC.