Ordering M3 from Dave bmwsonline.com?

[mphatic]

Originally Posted by quackbury

Like figuring out how to save $30/month? Please.

To PDS22: That's great your BMW Center treats all service customers so well. Unfortunately, many of them have one level of service for folks who bought there, another for those who did business away. If you get the same priority, loaners, etc. then your SA is indeed a good guy. Many are not so lucky.

Another advantage to dealing locally is that the management and sales department of my dealership live locally and spend their paychecks locally. They not only "support" our local economy (grocery stores, clothing stores, restaurants, you name it), but they also sponsor Little League teams, blood drives, Susan B. Komen events, etc. My opinion (which is obviously 180 degrees different than many of yours) is that it is worth "something" to me to support a local business.

Just out of curiousity, did all you guys order your M3's and other BMW's from Dave without a test drive? I sincerely hope you didn't stop by your local dealer, inspect cars, colors and options on his lot, take a test drive, use up some CA's time, and then buy your car on line. That would be just plain wrong.

Nah, that would never happen.....

I smell a hypocrite! You do realize you're buying a German car and that you don't live in Germany right? And you're really worried about legit buyers taking advantage of the dealerships by test driving their cars. Dealerships can take care of themselves. So wherever you test drive the car you must buy it even if the dealership in the next town is offering $5k less? Oh that's right you're so wealthy it doesn't matter. By the way, I test drove a used 08 at a good friend of mine's used car dealership. Is that OK with you oh holy one?

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by quackbury

If you are spending $60,000-plus on a car, is it really worth giving all that up to save a lousy $1,000? Like I said, I just don't get it.

Originally Posted by quackbury

Adding $1,000 to a cap cost adds about $30/month to a lease payment. If that is going to make a difference in you getting or not getting the car, perhaps you are stretching yourself a wee bit too much.

Unless your paying cash. Then $1000 is $1000. Rationalizing a quantity of money over a period of time doesn't make it less money. However, most people save far more than $1000 by looking online. I have a local dealership here that hardly quoted me for more than $1000 under MSRP. Thats around $4-$5k over invoice. Needless to say, when I do finally get my car it will not be from them. I will give them a chance to meet my best price before I buy, but it will be brief and pretty much a hit or miss option for them.

Originally Posted by quackbury

Okay, here's what I really think.

You have THREE, count 'em, THREE posts on M3 Post, all on this thread. You are proud of the fact that you did business with an out-of-state dealer so you could save $30 to $50 a month on your payments. For all I know you are so tight with a buck that you stayed in hostels on your ED, and plan on buying your gas at Costco.

Do I admire you? Not for a nano-second. You are a troll. Grow up and accept the fact that there are folks in this world that see things differently than you do.

This post makes me feel like you work for or own a dealership that over charges. You probably don't but you seem to be taking this topic on as a personal challenge to rectify people trying to spend near invoice on cars, rather than the MSRP.

Originally Posted by quackbury

To PDS22: That's great your BMW Center treats all service customers so well. Unfortunately, many of them have one level of service for folks who bought there, another for those who did business away. If you get the same priority, loaners, etc. then your SA is indeed a good guy. Many are not so lucky.

Another advantage to dealing locally is that the management and sales department of my dealership live locally and spend their paychecks locally. They not only "support" our local economy (grocery stores, clothing stores, restaurants, you name it), but they also sponsor Little League teams, blood drives, Susan B. Komen events, etc. My opinion (which is obviously 180 degrees different than many of yours) is that it is worth "something" to me to support a local business.

Just out of curiousity, did all you guys order your M3's and other BMW's from Dave without a test drive? I sincerely hope you didn't stop by your local dealer, inspect cars, colors and options on his lot, take a test drive, use up some CA's time, and then buy your car on line. That would be just plain wrong.

Nah, that would never happen.....

Got a few comments on this one. First off, most dealerships that I have been to treat people well. I've used dealerships for the same car in Texas, Ohio, and New York. My favorite dealership was actually the one in Ohio, but all treated my car pretty well. NY dealership didn't give me a BMW loaner free of charge however.

Your points about the local economy is a stretch. Sorry, but with so many small shops becoming corporate entities (like your coffee shop for example). The idea behind all these mom and pop shops benefiting from the SA you bought from eating dinner there is far fetched.

Lastly, in regard to this post. You can test drive an M3 at any time. I have test driven the car over 5 times and I have yet to buy one. When I do buy one, it will be a special order so I won't be able to test drive the exact car I'll be getting regardless. I'm willing to assume at least 75% the people on this forum had special order cars that had build dates. This fact is only increased more by the fact that BMW has changed their marketing model for M cars to a pull market from the previous push market. Which is why lately M cars on dealerships (at least here in Texas) have been far more scarce than when first introduced or at any point in 2008.

Originally Posted by quackbury

I LOVE competition. We have 6 dealerships within a 30 minute drive of my house, and I don't use the closest one, I use the most competitive. However, this center gets both my sales AND my service business.

I have no problem if the other folks on this thread bought their cars mail order without ever taking a test drive or otherwise "using" the local center's sales department. But if so, they must have deeper pockets than I do - no way I could ever pull the trigger on a $75,000 car without taking one for a test drive and agonizing over options and color combinations. (Isn't that half the fun?)

You can flame me all you want, but IMHO it is unethical for anyone to go to his local center, take a test drive, chew up a bunch of a CA's time walking the lot and looking at colors and options, then buy the car online. Dave (who is probably the nicest guy in the world for all I know) has an unfair advantage: he doesn't have to maintain a fleet of demos, or waste time with tire kickers.

Again, most dealerships don't maintain a fleet of demos anymore. If they are by you, I would chalk it up to people not coming in and wanting to order a car and wait for it. Or if you are at a truly high volume dealership, that may also alter the situation. As for going to a dealership and "wasting a SA's time" this is a ridiculous notion. I wish a SA would feel as strongly about not wasting the customer's money as you do about not wasting their time. However, I can assure you they don't. And they expect that half the people they talk to might not be ready to purchase. It's part of the job.

[UltimateBMW]

Coincidently, the thread is certainly off topic now discussing the ethics of purchasing online when your local dealership doesn't meet the price you want to pay.

[mphatic]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

Unless your paying cash. Then $1000 is $1000. Rationalizing a quantity of money over a period of time doesn't make it less money. However, most people save far more than $1000 by looking online. I have a local dealership here that hardly quoted me for more than $1000 under MSRP. Thats around $4-$5k over invoice. Needless to say, when I do finally get my car it will not be from them. I will give them a chance to meet my best price before I buy, but it will be brief and pretty much a hit or miss option for them.



This post makes me feel like you work for or own a dealership that over charges. You probably don't but you seem to be taking this topic on as a personal challenge to rectify people trying to spend near invoice on cars, rather than the MSRP.



Got a few comments on this one. First off, most dealerships that I have been to treat people well. I've used dealerships for the same car in Texas, Ohio, and New York. My favorite dealership was actually the one in Ohio, but all treated my car pretty well. NY dealership didn't give me a BMW loaner free of charge however.

Your points about the local economy is a stretch. Sorry, but with so many small shops becoming corporate entities (like your coffee shop for example). The idea behind all these mom and pop shops benefiting from the SA you bought from eating dinner there is far fetched.

Lastly, in regard to this post. You can test drive an M3 at any time. I have test driven the car over 5 times and I have yet to buy one. When I do buy one, it will be a special order so I won't be able to test drive the exact car I'll be getting regardless. I'm willing to assume at least 75% the people on this forum had special order cars that had build dates. This fact is only increased more by the fact that BMW has changed their marketing model for M cars to a pull market from the previous push market. Which is why lately M cars on dealerships (at least here in Texas) have been far more scarce than when first introduced or at any point in 2008.



Again, most dealerships don't maintain a fleet of demos anymore. If they are by you, I would chalk it up to people not coming in and wanting to order a car and wait for it. Or if you are at a truly high volume dealership, that may also alter the situation. As for going to a dealership and "wasting a SA's time" this is a ridiculous notion. I wish a SA would feel as strongly about not wasting the customer's money as you do about not wasting their time. However, I can assure you they don't. And they expect that half the people they talk to might not be ready to purchase. It's part of the job.

That was extremely well said-wish I had put it as well. Hopefully UltimateBMW has put an end to this off-topic criticism of other people wanting to save $$. Now if there is anything else about David Aviles please let me know. I will probably be going down there (Russel BMW) to take redelivery in the next few weeks and will post if anything newsworthy occurs. Stevenross, congrats, goodluck and enjoy the process and excitement

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by kgz

relax on the local economy thing .. you just shipped over 80% of 70K overseas to Germany! Who cares about the $1000 to the dealership that would anyway end up in China? .. yes figuratively speaking

classic

P.S.
look at my post count!
<---
i'm a hot shot !

[gongju]

So, basically tell him exactly what you want, pay invoice, car arrives in 6-8 weeks? I'm in a different state, so does the car get delivered 2 the nearest dealership or directly 2 me and how much extra are delivery charges?

[mphatic]

Originally Posted by gongju

So, basically tell him exactly what you want, pay invoice, car arrives in 6-8 weeks? I'm in a different state, so does the car get delivered 2 the nearest dealership or directly 2 me and how much extra are delivery charges?

That's a consideration. The car goes, free of an additional charge, to either the dealership that you ordered it from (Russel in this case) or you can do PDC in South Carolina which I hear is great. Otherwise there is an additional shipping fee to your locale.

[mphatic]

Originally Posted by gongju

So, basically tell him exactly what you want, pay invoice, car arrives in 6-8 weeks? I'm in a different state, so does the car get delivered 2 the nearest dealership or directly 2 me and how much extra are delivery charges?

Don't know the charge. For some reason $500 comes to mind but it might also be dependent on distance.

[kgz]

Originally Posted by mphatic

That was extremely well said-wish I had put it as well. Hopefully UltimateBMW has put an end to this off-topic criticism of other people wanting to save $$. Now if there is anything else about David Aviles please let me know. I will probably be going down there (Russel BMW) to take redelivery in the next few weeks and will post if anything newsworthy occurs. Stevenross, congrats, goodluck and enjoy the process and excitement

mphatic .. thanks for the info ($300 all inclusive over invoice is very fair .. actually excellent .. even if there is a markup within that). I will surely lookup David when I'm ready to pull the trigger. This argument has come up time and again! Unfortunately some BMW dealers still feel that the BMW is some "exotic" where buying is an "experience" when .. 90% of the 3-series cars (base-optioned) look worse than an accord.

David is one of the very few who has got the process of ED down to a science and has increased sales .. and hopefully is making a killing through volume. These are folks that deserve praise.

Enjoy the car and don't forget to post pics ..

[mphatic]

Originally Posted by kgz

mphatic .. thanks for the info ($300 all inclusive over invoice is very fair .. actually excellent .. even if there is a markup within that). I will surely lookup David when I'm ready to pull the trigger. This argument has come up time and again! Unfortunately some BMW dealers still feel that the BMW is some "exotic" where buying is an "experience" when .. 90% of the 3-series cars (base-optioned) look worse than an accord.

David is one of the very few who has got the process of ED down to a science and has increased sales .. and hopefully is making a killing through volume. These are folks that deserve praise.

Enjoy the car and don't forget to post pics ..

Thank you. I don't exactly know what business model they're using but I'm happy this lower profit margin option has appeared. I'm thinking that it is a internet facilitated, efficiency and volume based model. I do know that David just got to go down to the M school in SC as a volume rewards benefit. And thanks for the reminder.....I didn't plan on posting this much but kinda got sucked in. Should probably post my pics in my own thread?
Cheers!

[slipstream]

The car I purchased from David took about 8 weeks from the time I of order until I received it on the west coast. Originally, I was going to take delivery via a local dealership that David had worked with in the past, but they asked him for $1000 this time around. It was shipped via a towing company for $700, and it took about one week to go across the country. I would expect more like $500 for transport to Texas.

Between the unexpected shipping cost and the hassle of getting the registration and smog verification taken care of for California (NOT David's fault), it ended up as a wash for me. I had a local dealer that was willing to sell me the car for $1500 over invoice, so you can see that the cost for me didn't end up being that different.

As for all the off-topic chatter, the quack's comment early on regarding how much you really save was legitimate, but I found the rest to be very condescending and unnecessary. There is nothing wrong with seeking out and getting a good deal, and absolutely no reason for anyone to be obligated to buy a car from a dealership just because you took a test drive there. That's just silly. I took a test drive in Newport Beach, where the dealership wanted MSRP for the car, basically because the people that live in the area have lots of money to throw around and often pay cash. I'm sure he didn't miss my business, and I still got the car I wanted at a great price.

[mphatic]

Originally Posted by slipstream

The car I purchased from David took about 8 weeks from the time I of order until I received it on the west coast. Originally, I was going to take delivery via a local dealership that David had worked with in the past, but they asked him for $1000 this time around. It was shipped via a towing company for $700, and it took about one week to go across the country. I would expect more like $500 for transport to Texas.

Between the unexpected shipping cost and the hassle of getting the registration and smog verification taken care of for California (NOT David's fault), it ended up as a wash for me. I had a local dealer that was willing to sell me the car for $1500 over invoice, so you can see that the cost for me didn't end up being that different.

As for all the off-topic chatter, the quack's comment early on regarding how much you really save was legitimate, but I found the rest to be very condescending and unnecessary. There is nothing wrong with seeking out and getting a good deal, and absolutely no reason for anyone to be obligated to buy a car from a dealership just because you took a test drive there. That's just silly. I took a test drive in Newport Beach, where the dealership wanted MSRP for the car, basically because the people that live in the area have lots of money to throw around and often pay cash. I'm sure he didn't miss my business, and I still got the car I wanted at a great price.

Totally agree; balancing convenience, relationships and time frame (as well as other factors) against cost is a very legitimate but ultimately personal decision-making process. It was the condescension to which I took exception.

The additional shipping cost and time are definitely factors that should be weighed. I originally planned to take delivery at the PDC in SC and Baltimore is close enough to me to p/u and have a nice roadtrip but farther away it becomes a little different. I'm curious as to whether a lot of people are getting close to $1,000 over invoice for an M3 ordered and optioned as they wish from their nearby dealers?

[UltimateBMW]

I think it was stated somewhere that David specializes in Euro Delivery. If I'm not mistaken, when taking delivery on US soil from a Euro Delivery bought car, they will ship it to any dealer without the extra charge.

Someone might have to correct me on that, but that is my understanding of things. Which explains why people that buy from David that don't do ED, end up paying a extra shipping charge.

[mphatic]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

I think it was stated somewhere that David specializes in Euro Delivery. If I'm not mistaken, when taking delivery on US soil from a Euro Delivery bought car, they will ship it to any dealer without the extra charge.

Someone might have to correct me on that, but that is my understanding of things. Which explains why people that buy from David that don't do ED, end up paying a extra shipping charge.

I was advised differently back in late July or August so I guess whoever is interested should explicitly verify with David or whoever they choose to work with ahead of time. I did ED and recall being told that it was shipped w/o additional cost only to PDC or ordering dealership but I could be mistaken in my recollection.

[stevenross]

Originally Posted by mphatic

That was extremely well said-wish I had put it as well. Hopefully UltimateBMW has put an end to this off-topic criticism of other people wanting to save $$. Now if there is anything else about David Aviles please let me know. I will probably be going down there (Russel BMW) to take redelivery in the next few weeks and will post if anything newsworthy occurs. Stevenross, congrats, goodluck and enjoy the process and excitement

thank you very much.. cant wait
Steven

[Technic]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

I think it was stated somewhere that David specializes in Euro Delivery. If I'm not mistaken, when taking delivery on US soil from a Euro Delivery bought car, they will ship it to any dealer without the extra charge.

Someone might have to correct me on that, but that is my understanding of things. Which explains why people that buy from David that don't do ED, end up paying a extra shipping charge.

That's what I thought and I was wrong... dealers seems to have a Mafia-style aggrement that they will not do delivery of any vehicle bought from each other for free, even by Euro Delivery.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by mphatic

I was advised differently back in late July or August so I guess whoever is interested should explicitly verify with David or whoever they choose to work with ahead of time. I did ED and recall being told that it was shipped w/o additional cost only to PDC or ordering dealership but I could be mistaken in my recollection.

Originally Posted by Technic

That's what I thought and I was wrong... dealers seems to have a Mafia-style aggrement that they will not do delivery of any vehicle bought from each other for free, even by Euro Delivery.

Good to know. Thanks for clarifying that up.

[gjschwartzman]

Very interested in this option for purchase. Does anyone know if David's dealership will take a trade-in (03 M3)? I live close enough to Baltimore to drop it off.

Thanks.

[rich2saint]

FYI: My car is due in to Russel any day. The contract that he sent me wasn't the same as I was quoted and when I called to see about getting it changed - I was told he no longer works there... eek

[Optherion]

Originally Posted by quackbury

What am I missing here?

Sounds like he's a great guy and all, but I paid $1,000 over invoice to buy from my local dealer. When my M3 needs service the dealership gets me in right away, gives me one of their "nicer" BMW loaners and bends over backwards killing me with service.

When the X5 needs service, they send a valet out to the house with a loaner BMW for my wife to drive, then return the X5 to her when it's completed. (I don't have them valet the M3).

If you are spending $60,000-plus on a car, is it really worth giving all that up to save a lousy $1,000? Like I said, I just don't get it.

+1 I on one hand agree. Id much rather support my neighborhood bmw dealer down the street. They know I could have found a slightly better price an hour away, but every time I go in there, my sales guy and service department do bend over backwards. I have purchased 2 bmws from them. My last loaner car was an x6 with 50 miles on it!

[quahog_convo]

Interesting posts. Thanks for the differing points.

[Dartanium]

I also believe in buying local if possible since dealerships could potentially give you better treatment or service that could be useful in the future.

Should anything go wrong with an out-of-state dealership, I would hate to take the time off and fly out there to straighten things out, not that I'm doubting this Dave salesperson but a potential problem could arise which is an another reason for me to buy locally.

But money saved is money saved, perfectly fine choice as well.