Getting a E92 M3 - How to negotiate?

[wingzee]

Greetings ///M owners,

Ex owner of E46 325 and E90 320d here.

I have been eyeing for a E92 M3 for a couple of months, did massive research around the various failures/issues and I am ready to take the plunge. Shortlisted a few good examples on Carsales and since got in touch with the sellers/dealers.

What really struck me was that out of the 10 or so examples that I picked, only 2-3 had the TBs replaced and none of the cars actually got the RBs replaced, regardless of mileage (the highest one was 130k).

Obviously the TBs and RBs is a known issue for all of us here but a lot of the sellers/dealers (even BMW dealers) were adamant that it’s overblown and is not willing to budge much on pricing (to factor in TB/RB replacement and DCT fluid refresh costs) and stated that none of the workshops they been to (obviously not Advan, BMR or Bromspec) actually mentioned that it’s not an issue. This is despite me posting links to forum posts here highlighting such with statements and photos from owners.

Now my question is what else can I do to shave some pricing off to factor these costs in?

I am not desperate to own one yet but happy to pick one up if the right one comes along.

[Mets13]

I replaced my RB as a precaution. No issue with TB at this stage and the only issue I have had is ABS wheel speed sensors. Its an aging M3 so you have to allow a few bucks for maintenance. Joys of owning this special car but love every second behind the wheel.

If you are buying from a car yard then making an offer close to the end of the financial year is a good idea

[BOOF-M3]

Dealers tend not to negotiate too much on M3's. They actually like having them on their grounds as it brings in buyers who may just want to check out the M machine. There are many good cars available from members, why not purchase one through a forum member? Or is shipping too big a price to pay and you really need to form one already on your continent?

[XIX]

Originally Posted by BOOF-M3

Dealers tend not to negotiate too much on M3's. They actually like having them on their grounds as it brings in buyers who may just want to check out the M machine. There are many good cars available from members, why not purchase one through a forum member? Or is shipping too big a price to pay and you really need to form one already on your continent?

[XIX]

To answer your question OP, if none of the cars you are looking at have had the work done, then the market is in equilibrium (they all at the same value as they all missing the work).

In reality there would be much greater than 50% of M3 owners who never do this work unless they have to. So the seller will wait for one of them to come along.

Just find the cleanest one you can negotiate to a suitable amount that you are happy with.

[wingzee]

Originally Posted by XIX

To answer your question OP, if none of the cars you are looking at have had the work done, then the market is in equilibrium (they all at the same value as they all missing the work).

In reality there would be much greater than 50% of M3 owners who never do this work unless they have to. So the seller will wait for one of them to come along.

Just find the cleanest one you can negotiate to a suitable amount that you are happy with.

Yeap which is not an issue for me.

I guess it's more about "educating" the sellers on the RB issue as many does think that it's actually an issue despite being widely reported, not even an oil sample test done.

"All the workshop I have taken the car to said that the RB is a myth and may or may not happen depending on a car" - coming from one of the seller.

Well I obviously moved on and looked at others (the car was at the bottom of the list in terms of miles and condition).

[XIX]

If someone is selling their car, they will not beleive anything you say that may devalue it.

Depending on what year you are looking at, I couldn't really see any well priced or suitable options on the market. Might just be worth waiting it out for the right one to come up.

[wingzee]

Originally Posted by XIX

If someone is selling their car, they will not beleive anything you say that may devalue it.

Depending on what year you are looking at, I couldn't really see any well priced or suitable options on the market. Might just be worth waiting it out for the right one to come up.

I am open to anything between 2007-2011 with budget up to $65k or so. Preferably 6MT but can accept DCT if the car is found to be well maintained than its 6MT peers. Found a couple of good examples of 6MT 2007-2008 (around 85-100ks but with full service records) at about mid 40s which sellers are willing to negotiate slightly (I haven’t really tried hard enough) which I reckon I should be able to bring it down to low 40s eventually (I hope) to cover the RB replacement costs - if seller is desperate to offload.

There is this really nice low mileage ZCP DCT which just popped up few days ago - planning to view and test drive this weekend. Price is on the higher end of my budget but the low mileage and condition is miles ahead of the others.

[XIX]

I would be looking at a 2009+ if you can afford it. The rest is up to you and try and get the lowest mileage you can find. You can do all the maintenance in the world, but you can't undo age or kms a car has done.

[jeremism]

How about this? 2013 for $70k on the road is pretty much in your price range. With that year, manual, low kms, it would probably go quickly. Low enough kms that the RB question isn't really relevant yet.

https://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/d...AG-AD-15957489

[jeremism]

Sorry it's sold already. I only got a notification that it got listed this morning.

[EnVe46]

Not having TBs or RBs done does not and should not reduce the cars value. The car is no less valuable. Having them done can catch a higher value but if I were selling my car and someone offered less cause of those factors I'd say take a walk as well. Buy a vehicle that's been well maintained with records and go in knowing you'll eventually need to replace both items. Reality is, you'll have a much harder time finding an M with both of those replaced then not, treat it as a bonus and that's it. I'd be shocked if the percentage of E9xMs that have both done is greater than 5%

[tdott]

^I agree, you can't go in looking to negotiate down for preventative maintenance.

Show interest in the car, go see it, then make an offer. No need for made up stories, if there are issues, point them out and make an offer.

[BMWM3TS]

Originally Posted by wingzee

Yeap which is not an issue for me.

I guess it's more about "educating" the sellers on the RB issue as many does think that it's actually an issue despite being widely reported, not even an oil sample test done.

"All the workshop I have taken the car to said that the RB is a myth and may or may not happen depending on a car" - coming from one of the seller.

Well I obviously moved on and looked at others (the car was at the bottom of the list in terms of miles and condition).

Just a view but your negotiating approach on educating owners on Rb's and TB actuators to low ball the asking price is a joke. Why is your research superior to mine. If you tried that on me if I was selling my car I would be thinking you can go and get knotted and on principle wouldn't entertain anything other than my asking price. So what's your ideal spec on rb replacement. E.g. genuine factory Rb's or other brand, coated or non coated, happy with oem replacement gaskets or genuine, , which bolts are to be used, are you coding out cold start, what oil are you going to use. Which workshop did the rod bearing change if done and how many have they done Please educate me on that. PS all the parts on my car that I mentioned are genuine. For the record, I have a rod bearing replacement kit in my boxes of spare / preventative maintenance parts. I am interest in you educating me on where I have screwed up on the selection of RB parts.

[wingzee]

Originally Posted by BMWM3TS

Just a view but your negotiating approach on educating owners on Rb's and TB actuators to low ball the asking price is a joke. Why is your research superior to mine. If you tried that on me if I was selling my car I would be thinking you can go and get knotted and on principle wouldn't entertain anything other than my asking price. So what's your ideal spec on rb replacement. E.g. genuine factory Rb's or other brand, coated or non coated, happy with oem replacement gaskets or genuine, , which bolts are to be used, are you coding out cold start, what oil are you going to use. Which workshop did the rod bearing change if done and how many have they done Please educate me on that. PS all the parts on my car that I mentioned are genuine. For the record, I have a rod bearing replacement kit in my boxes of spare / preventative maintenance parts. I am interest in you educating me on where I have screwed up on the selection of RB parts.

It’s not a about low-balling - it’s about factoring in the replacement cost. That’s very different. Heck even splitting the replacement costs between the buyer and seller ie. $1.5k each, I am absolutely fine with that. The issue here here most are in denial and does not even admit that there is an issue, even as a preventive measure.

Ohh and frankly if a seller were to ask such questions I am more than happy to guide the sellers on the specs, specific parts and workshops (here in Sydney at least). But that’s not the point of this thread.

[wingzee]

Originally Posted by XIX

I would be looking at a 2009+ if you can afford it. The rest is up to you and try and get the lowest mileage you can find. You can do all the maintenance in the world, but you can't undo age or kms a car has done.

I do agree with this although 09+ in 6MT is pretty rare to come by. I don’t think I have seen any so far.

[BOOF-M3]

Originally Posted by wingzee

It’s not a about low-balling - it’s about factoring in the replacement cost. That’s very different. Heck even splitting the replacement costs between the buyer and seller ie. $1.5k each, I am absolutely fine with that. The issue here here most are in denial and does not even admit that there is an issue, even as a preventive measure.

Ohh and frankly if a seller were to ask such questions I am more than happy to guide the sellers on the specs, specific parts and workshops (here in Sydney at least). But that’s not the point of this thread.

You have every right to ask for a seller to deduct the cost of maintenance items if you choose. Same goes for a seller to deny the request. I think that was an obvious statement I made. But as far as TA's go... Many cars have had them go out under warranty. Others have gone out just out of warranty. I recently purchased my 2011 with 85k miles. Both TA's had been replaced under warranty so I didn't feel a need to factor in the TA's to my future maintenance costs. My 2011 E93 however both TA's were still original at 57k miles and still going strong today at 86k miles. So it really is hit or miss with these things. Ideally the seller just changed out all the fluids, brakes and rotors, spark plugs, filters, Rod bearings, TA's, tires, wiper blades, new headlights, already had coding performed, air bag recall performed, FRM module replaced under extended warranty, full detail on the car, full paint correction performed. That would be a fantastic seller. But if some of those items are done then you might consider yourself ahead of the game. Good luck in finding the perfect M3 OP.

[XIX]

Originally Posted by wingzee

I do agree with this although 09+ in 6MT is pretty rare to come by. I don’t think I have seen any so far.

To be honest I dont know why you would go manual unless you are an absolute purist. The dct is far superior otherwise.

But if it is rare, that is even more reason to wait for it, the diff in value when it comes time to sell it will be worth it.

[antonyl]

Manual is just plain fun.
I think they will hold they’re value better in the long run too.

[BMWM3TS]

Originally Posted by wingzee

It’s not a about low-balling - it’s about factoring in the replacement cost. That’s very different. Heck even splitting the replacement costs between the buyer and seller ie. $1.5k each, I am absolutely fine with that. The issue here here most are in denial and does not even admit that there is an issue, even as a preventive measure.

Ohh and frankly if a seller were to ask such questions I am more than happy to guide the sellers on the specs, specific parts and workshops (here in Sydney at least). But that’s not the point of this thread.

Let's just say that as you are asking on how to negotiate the asking price down, you and I are at polar opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to negotiating approach. E.g. I bagged both my current toys at decent discounts to initial asking price and that of similiar cars at the time ( circa 20 to 25% ) by giving the seller a message you are a genuine buyer, been in the market for a bit, have cash ready to go and not interested in wasting your time or the sellers and keen on their car. I would ask standard questions and ask for service book pic via email or other pics to get the sellers email address. I would then do my forensic googling looking for not quiet right jaded pasts. Then if car is all good, offer a price lower than asking based on whatever rationale that floats you boat in writing. and is subject to a PPI. No need to justify your price. May get told to get stuffed. If so monitor if its sold or not whilst putting in offers on other cars. If not sold after some time remind them of your offer or slighly increase the offer to try and engage them. Eg seller may get pissed off with low balling tyre kickers or their circumstance or expectations may change. Key is to get the ppi. Armed with a Ppi you can then use that to negotiate hard with facts instead of you opinions unless it's a peach.

PS JUST another view but these cars stock are nowhere in the league of one modded with tune and exhaust e.g. x pipe with 200 cel high flow cats. If you have a dct, how good is the bang for buck on the gts dct tune for circa USD 100. Hmm rod bearings or tune and exhaust. (cel and cold started coded out). No brainer for me.

[R3dliner]

GL in your search. Always remember there's always someone willing to spend the $$ and you're probably not the only guy looking at that car.
I've sold plenty of cars in the past and I straight out ignore people trying to negotiate on future repairs. Now if there are present day problems, that can be negotiated. Just my 2 cents.

[BMWM3TS]

Originally Posted by R3dliner

GL in your search. Always remember there's always someone willing to spend the $$ and you're probably not the only guy looking at that car.
I've sold plenty of cars in the past and I straight out ignore people trying to negotiate on future repairs. Now if there are present day problems, that can be negotiated. Just my 2 cents.

Looks like your experience and advice is similiar to mine ( discount for rod bearing or actuators not done = NFW, but PPI WITH issues = negotiate hard on reducing the asking price.. Are you over 45 perhaps. You are much more eloquently succinct in giving your 2 cents compared to my just a view.