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[panda-R]

I guess it started off with the ability to rotate tires and save some money by getting more useful life out of the entire set.... but then thinking about saving money and having a M3 is like two things that don't go so well together....

Anyone that has gone down the route of SQUARE DAILY rims/tires think its worthwhile? Do you miss the crisp possibly sharper handling of the staggered setup on the streets?

18x9.5 +22 is like so flushie on this car.

[BayE30]

i run 19x10 et25 with 275/30/19 square. There is no reduced turn-in. maybe at very high rate of speed, but thats a plus in my opinion. In DD duty, the turn-in is easier. No regrets, love the square setup.

[panda-R]

Originally Posted by SFCM3

i run 19x10 et25 with 275/30/19 square. There is no reduced turn-in. maybe at very high rate of speed, but thats a plus in my opinion. In DD duty, the turn-in is easier. No regrets, love the square setup.

You feel the turn in is easier? The steering is definitely heavier with the 265/40/18 up front but havent had a chance to push it and say it's better for spirited driving.

[BayE30]

Originally Posted by panda-R

You feel the turn in is easier? The steering is definitely heavier with the 265/40/18 up front but havent had a chance to push it and say it's better for spirited driving.

i was expecting heavier steering for daily driving, but it was the opposite. The reduced understeer at speed in a very nice as well.

[Ngilbe36]

I have been running 275/30/19 square now for about a year and I like it. I do think the steering got a touch heavier due to the scrub point moving towards the center of the tire, but I would not necessarily say its a negative. Being able to rotate tires is definitely nice. One point of caution that is kind of obvious but can be overlooked is that running wider tires up front WILL result in more rock chips and scrapes along the side of your car.

I also run a 10mm spacer in the rear to even them out. A 12 of 15 would probably be closer.

Do it

[SYT_Shadow]

I dislike square setups for the street and avoid them if possible. I find the car tramlines more, steering is heavier (not a good thing IMO)

Doing that you also don't maximize your rear contact patch, as the rear can take a 10.5 with zero issues but the front can't. Anyone cornering hard enough to 'need' a 275 front also 'needs' a wider rear

[BayE30]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I dislike square setups for the street and avoid them if possible. I find the car tramlines more, steering is heavier (not a good thing IMO)

Doing that you also don't maximize your rear contact patch, as the rear can take a 10.5 with zero issues but the front can't. Anyone cornering hard enough to 'need' a 275 front also 'needs' a wider rear

i thought this mite be the case, but with 300 treadwear tires for the street, there is no tramlining that i have noticed, and our roads here are complete shit... i think with softer compound tires, there mite be an issue, but in the last 1000miles i have put on the car i have enjoyed the square setup immensely.


i should add that a big part of the reason i went square 359m wheels was that i did not want to run a spacer on the front wheels due to vibration issues i was fighting, and didnt like the look of the 19x9 on the front without a 15mm spacer to push it out. The 19x10 et25 wheel fit PERFECT on the front. The e90m3 is purely a street car for me, it will probably never see the track as i have a dedicated car for that.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by SFCM3

i thought this mite be the case, but with 300 treadwear tires for the street, there is no tramlining that i have noticed, and our roads here are complete shit... i think with softer compound tires, there mite be an issue, but in the last 1000miles i have put on the car i have enjoyed the square setup immensely.


i should add that a big part of the reason i went square 359m wheels was that i did not want to run a spacer on the front wheels due to vibration issues i was fighting, and didnt like the look of the 19x9 on the front without a 15mm spacer to push it out. The 19x10 et25 wheel fit PERFECT on the front. The e90m3 is purely a street car for me, it will probably never see the track as i have a dedicated car for that.

I haven't tried regular street tires in square, and it's also likely that my alignment is a factor in the tramlining. So I'm not suggesting we burn people at the stake hehe

[panda-R]

I haven't noticed any tramlining so far but only went for a quick drive to see how it reacts with the factory rears on the front. So far so good but the tire is so flush I'd be worried about the rock chips down the side too. Anyone actually notice an increase in chips on those areas?

[derbo]

I'm running 275/35/18 squared right now and I definitely noticed the difference between the stock 219m 245s up front. Steering is heavier and feels slower. I know for a fact the stock EDC did not like the extra unsprung weight and felt sloppy over large bumps on the freeway. Now that I have upgraded suspension, the extra unsprung weight doesn't seem to be as apparent up front on the street but still tramlines a bit.

I'm currently looking for a set of staggered 265/285 wheels to compare.

[BayE30]

Originally Posted by derbo

I'm running 275/35/18 squared right now and I definitely noticed the difference between the stock 219m 245s up front. Steering is heavier and feels slower. I know for a fact the stock EDC did not like the extra unsprung weight and felt sloppy over large bumps on the freeway. Now that I have upgraded suspension, the extra unsprung weight doesn't seem to be as apparent up front on the street but still tramlines a bit.

I'm currently looking for a set of staggered 265/285 wheels to compare.

What tires you running?

[derbo]

Originally Posted by SFCM3

What tires you running?

PS4S. The 219M setup was PSS.

[shimmy23]

The widest square set up I've ran was 275/35/18 PSS and there is definitely tramlining. That's with both a -1.8 and -2.1 camber setup. The car overall feels more planted with a staggered setup.

I see no need for squared setups on this car unless it's the "look" you are going for. There are plenty of staggered options to choose from

[yidgyi]

I'm not a fan of the squared setup on street. I wish I got my Arc8's in a staggered setup. On aggressive back roads the rear end wants to slide and let loose. I can only imagine it being worse on track. The steering also feels a lot heavier and resistance to turn at full lock, I.E making u-turns. I don't remember having a heavy steering wheel with a 9in wheel up front. Also, having a 275 vs a 295 in the rear I feel less confident as the rear wants to let loose more. My next set of wheels will probably be a 9 / 9.5 in the front and perhaps a 10.5 or 11 in the rear. On Toyo R888r, 275 front and 295 rear was pretty grippy with a staggered setup.

My squared setup on Arc8s are 275/35/18 18x10.

[pbonsalb]

It’s good to read that experience. I bought ARC8 18x9.5/10.5 in 2011 and run 265/35 front and either 285/35 or 295/30 rear. Figured it was about 3/4-1 inch more than stock front and rear. I have wondered whether square might have been better. Certainly can get a little more tire life by rotating but not sure of benefit other than that. With the staggered I have played with tire aspect to effectively change final drive. The 295/30 are almost like running a 4.10 diff with stock rear 265/40 tires. 285/30 would be exactly like a 4.10.

[panda-R]

Well turns out the stock 265/40/18 is a bit too tall for the front as I just rub on full lock. Just catches the lining. The car looks great with the OE spec 219m so maybe I just left leave it and forget rotations. Driving feel and less headaches > maximizing dollar on tire usage.

[pbonsalb]

265/35/18 is no problem up front. Try those.

[panda-R]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

265/35/18 is no problem up front. Try those.

Yeah I just have too much of the current Tire. Have heard that size will work good.

[Richbot]

275 square Hankook RS3's on 10" wheels - tramlining like crazy at 1.4 degrees of camber, steering felt like carp

275 Square PS4S on 9.5" wheels - no tramlining really at all, even with MORE camber (2.5) than I had on the kooks. The Steering also feels great. I think the numb steering comes from stuffing a wide track tire on the car, they're usually 3-4lb heavier per tire and that's all the belts and such that let the tire work at light loads turned to wood so they'll stand up to hard use. I liked the steering on the PSS in 275 up front too.

Point being in my experience it's been tire dependent and setup dependent too. And I've never noticed a difference going from a square to staggered setup with the same tire (tramlining seemed the same with my 275/35 square then staggered PSS, or my Conti DW's that I ran staggered and then square...) so it's really all about that front tire and alignment and maybe most important, running as little offset as possible up front to avoid pushing the wheel way out and screwing up scrub radius

I'm running 275/30-19 square right now on 220M's. I'm getting some Falken 275/40-17's for my 17x10 to run square and replace the 285/40-18 Contis I ahd on them now that I have a "tame" 19" setup. I use a 5mm spacer in back to get the front and rear track width closer to the same as they were stock (but I also don't want to hang the wheel and tire out in the airstream if I can help it) and I think it looks and drives pretty awesome. At stock power, anyway, I don't see any great need to use a staggered setup. You do want that 9.5"-10" front wheel though, it transforms the car. I'd suggest wearing out those 265/40's ASAP and swapping to a 275/35-18 and then putting the same on the front when the fronts are done

Grain of salt though, my car has some suspension mods that make the penalties of a heavier/wider front wheel/tire setup easier to take (stiffer front springs, swaybar, camber plates, good adjustable shocks...)

[Solo_M_Tech]

For the last 18 months I ran an 18X10 ET25 square set up. 275/35 RS4s all around.
Now I run an 18X9 and 18X10 513M set up with PSS 255/40 and 275/40. Here is what I noticed straight away. The car is more stable and feels more comfortable (subjective) with the 513's. Could be tires, could be the set up. Biggest difference is the tramlining. The car with the square set up would kinda follow any grove or curve in the road surface. With the 513's it doesn't do this. Just food for thought.

[MasterP]

I've run both 275/35-18 x4 and 285/30-18 x4 on 18x10.5 square on RE71R for street and wet track. If there's an increase in steering effort I don't notice it - but I also don't use the servotronic in sport in any situation since I think the added steering weight feels fake.

The front end will wander a little bit depending on the road surface but I associate this with the camber requirement to run my 18x11/305 square track setup.

I think the ability to rotate tires and the improved front end grip and turn in response is worth it.

[Richbot]

A lot of that is definitely the difference between PSS and RS4 those are very different tires comfort wise if you believe the reports from the intertoobs

And a narrower front tire/wheel will all things being equal of course induce some natural stability...stability is just another way to say "less apt to change direction quickly"