Catless X-Pipe Misfire/Torque Dip/Bog [SOLVED?]

[MikeYQM]

I wonder... there seems to be a most common tune with this issue, and many have said that tune runs stock below XXXX RPM, I wonder if those tunes that work better, do I fact have tuning below 3000 RPM that make enough of a difference?

[tdott]

Originally Posted by MikeYQM

I wonder if those tunes that work better, do I fact have tuning below 3000 RPM that make enough of a difference?

Epic makes changes to their tunes below 3k for headers and a more free flowing exhaust.

Randy states:
"At low RPM the air loses velocity and stalls and you get a flat spot where the drivability suffers but it can be corrected in the calibration."

The tuners with the issue are probably too lazy or don't have the skills or knowledge to tune properly below 3k when there is a freer flowing exhaust setup. or they don't care and just want to sell more tunes and do more group buys.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by tdott

The tuners with the issue are probably too lazy or don't have the skills or knowledge to tune properly below 3k when there is a freer flowing exhaust setup. or they don't care and just want to sell more tunes and do more group buys.

Nailed it.

Canned tunes are like the golden goose. There is no reason to change or improve if people just keep sending you money.

Cheers,

[CurbBender'90]

Originally Posted by tdott

I wonder if clearing adaptations would yield anything different.

It doesn't, I've tried it. A axleback isn't going to effect the flow of exhaust as much as a x-pipe...that's mainly for sound anyways....

[V8Juice]

Originally Posted by tdott

Epic makes changes to their tunes below 3k for headers and a more free flowing exhaust.

Randy states:
"At low RPM the air loses velocity and stalls and you get a flat spot where the drivability suffers but it can be corrected in the calibration."

The tuners with the issue are probably too lazy or don't have the skills or knowledge to tune properly below 3k when there is a freer flowing exhaust setup. or they don't care and just want to sell more tunes and do more group buys.

So who wants to switch to epic tune and test it?

[MikeYQM]

Originally Posted by V8Juice

So who wants to switch to epic tune and test it?

Start a GoFundMe?

I ordered the Epic tune from Bimmerworld yesterday. Should be here tomorrow. Unsure when I'll get the tune installed as I have a few questions about the process.

[Spoff_E90_M3]

Originally Posted by MikeYQM

Start a GoFundMe?

I ordered the Epic tune from Bimmerworld yesterday. Should be here tomorrow. Unsure when I'll get the tune installed as I have a few questions about the process.

Great. I was also inquiring with Bimmerworld. Were they open to providing the tune at a lower price since they have a bundle deal of their X pipe and the epic tune? I am hoping that they consider it an ‘upgrade’.

Epic says it is 799 for street and 999 for track/race if you get it directly from them.

[MikeYQM]

Originally Posted by Spoff_E90_M3

Great. I was also inquiring with Bimmerworld. Were they open to providing the tune at a lower price since they have a bundle deal of their X pipe and the epic tune? I am hoping that they consider it an ‘upgrade’.

Epic says it is 799 for street and 999 for track/race if you get it directly from them.

I didn't get any sort of bundle deal. Didn't know that was an option.

[V8Juice]

Originally Posted by Spoff_E90_M3

Great. I was also inquiring with Bimmerworld. Were they open to providing the tune at a lower price since they have a bundle deal of their X pipe and the epic tune? I am hoping that they consider it an ‘upgrade’.

Epic says it is 799 for street and 999 for track/race if you get it directly from them.

Epic tune GB?!? We probably have about 10-20 people who'd be interested.

One can only dream

[Spoff_E90_M3]

Originally Posted by MikeYQM

I didn't get any sort of bundle deal. Didn't know that was an option.

Got an email from Bimmerworld and it is not an option after the fact.

[MShift]

Originally Posted by V8Juice

Epic tune GB?!? We probably have about 10-20 people who'd be interested.

One can only dream

I can ask Randy, I would jump on this if anyone can confirm the tune does indeed fix the issue.

Gofund my tune, im local and I'll report back with results and dyno numbers 😆 I promise.

[pbonsalb]

This is making me hesitate on moving the x forward on my mid pipe. I bought the same magnaflo x that Bimmerworld use. I have the Epic tune and told Randy that I had a quad resonated x pipe and planned to move the x forward.

[MikeYQM]

So I installed the Epic tune this morning and....

The Epic tune WORKED!

Full disclosure: I bought the tune from Bimmerworld and while I did receive a small but respectful military discount, I did not receive any special discounts. , guarantees or considerations for the work I've done to address this issue.

I installed the tune this morning, before my drive to work.

My observations after about 50km:

The car seemed to start quicker when cold.

Low end torque was immediately noticeable. Obviously the car isn't a torque monster, but the car feels much more connected to the accelerator pedal.

I tried a dozen or so times to replicate the problem, rolling in throttle anywhere from 1500-2500 rpm. I could NOT reproduce the hesitation. If you've had the hesitation, you know it's easy to reproduce. Even in D2, downshifts in the problem RPM band seen a bit earlier and more responsive. There is still a slight rasp/resonance between 2500-3000 rpm that lasts 0.5-1 second under moderate acceleration; I wasn't sure if it was tied to the hesitation or not. It's not.

Overall, the car feels much more cohesive. It runs clean and smooth and feels like factory. Even without the problem hesitation, the car slowly began to feel "cobbled together" and I didn't even notice until driving it with the Epic tune this morning.

Some notes on the Epic Tune:
- You have to send Randy your calibrations file from your ECU and he makes adjustments to that and returns a file to you. Took 4-5 hours for me to receive the file.

- In order to be able to read my ECU, I had to flash back to stock first. I did NOT delete adaptations.

- You also send Randy your mods list and he makes adjustments for that. He also recommends sending near future mods.

- Randy uses your cars calibration data and mods list to develop a specific tune for your car. This isn't a canned tune.

- You get only get 2 revisions. Which makes sense when you consider the points above.

Overall, I couldn't be happier. I'm very picky, and I DO NOT lend my seal of approval unless I truly believe it to be true.

[SYT_Shadow]

Of course, it was a tune issue all along.

It is shameful how much this has been discussed in the forum and the complete lack of resolution when +90% of the complaints use the same tune.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by MikeYQM

So I installed the Epic tune this morning and....

The Epic tune WORKED!

Full disclosure: I bought the tune from Bimmerworld and while I did receive a small but respectful military discount, I did not receive any special discounts. , guarantees or considerations for the work I've done to address this issue.

I installed the tune this morning, before my drive to work.

My observations after about 50km:

The car seemed to start quicker when cold.

Low end torque was immediately noticeable. Obviously the car isn't a torque monster, but the car feels much more connected to the accelerator pedal.

I tried a dozen or so times to replicate the problem, rolling in throttle anywhere from 1500-2500 rpm. I could NOT reproduce the hesitation. If you've had the hesitation, you know it's easy to reproduce. Even in D2, downshifts in the problem RPM band seen a bit earlier and more responsive. There is still a slight rasp/resonance between 2500-3000 rpm that lasts 0.5-1 second under moderate acceleration; I wasn't sure if it was tied to the hesitation or not. It's not.

Overall, the car feels much more cohesive. It runs clean and smooth and feels like factory. Even without the problem hesitation, the car slowly began to feel "cobbled together" and I didn't even notice until driving it with the Epic tune this morning.

Some notes on the Epic Tune:
- You have to send Randy your calibrations file from your ECU and he makes adjustments to that and returns a file to you. Took 4-5 hours for me to receive the file.

- In order to be able to read my ECU, I had to flash back to stock first. I did NOT delete adaptations.

- You also send Randy your mods list and he makes adjustments for that. He also recommends sending near future mods.

- Randy uses your cars calibration data and mods list to develop a specific tune for your car. This isn't a canned tune.

- You get only get 2 revisions. Which makes sense when you consider the points above.

Overall, I couldn't be happier. I'm very picky, and I DO NOT lend my seal of approval unless I truly believe it to be true.

Was Randy willing to share the problem and or adjustments he made to correct?

[MikeYQM]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Was Randy willing to share the problem and or adjustments he made to correct?

He did not. Prior to buying the tune, he explained that the issue is caused by the exhaust flow within the problem RPM band (similar to what I described in post 1). I didn't ask what he changed to correct it; seems like proprietary knowledge to me.

[tdott]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Was Randy willing to share the problem and or adjustments he made to correct?

good one. When has any tuner done that?

Can we get a list together to pressure Alex (Alpine MSS) to do something?
His excuse was to blame my car and say no one else had the issue and also say he makes no changes below 3k rpm, now it's pretty apparent it is a tuning issue.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by tdott

good one. When has any tuner done that?

Can we get a list together to pressure Alex (Alpine MSS) to do something?
His excuse was to blame my car and say no one else had the issue and also say he makes no changes below 3k rpm, now it's pretty apparent it is a tuning issue.

Yeah, but you never know unless you ask. Sometimes a clever probing question or two can go undetected depending on how much the person likes to talk...

It's a tuning problem as it relates to the moved X location on the xpipe right?

[tdott]

Originally Posted by DRLane

It's a tuning problem as it relates to the moved X location on the xpipe right?

Seems like it, probably the result of less backpressure, more free flowing or a combination of all of those changes were enough to cause the ecu not able to adapt enough with stock calibration at low rpm.

I also have headers, but there are others with the issue don't. The BW xpipe seems to be the most common mod.

[MikeYQM]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Yeah, but you never know unless you ask. Sometimes a clever probing question or two can go undetected depending on how much the person likes to talk...

It's a tuning problem as it relates to the moved X location on the xpipe right?

Honestly, I don't really want to know the answer. Randy worked the problem and earned the answer. I would hate to be the cause of that info going to other tuners who haven't put the knowledge and effort in.

The forward X flows catless X-Pipe flows more than other X-Pipes and it's outside the ECU's ability to adjust on a canned tune or stock ECU.

There's nothing wrong with Alpine's tune, in and of itself, paired with the BW and other X-Pipe... they just weren't compatible. Alex was good to work with and I had no issues with his tunes before this problem came up. If he could have fixed it, I would have likely stayed with an Alpine tune. But now, well, lets just say the grass is greener...

Most tunes are canned, off-the-shelf, and don't accommodate any mods or vehicle data (notice how they don't ask for vehicle data or a mods list?). From what I understand, Epic is as close to custom as you can get without strapping onto the dyno for tuning sessions.

[strokemycocktus]

Originally Posted by tdott

good one. When has any tuner done that?

Can we get a list together to pressure Alex (Alpine MSS) to do something?
His excuse was to blame my car and say no one else had the issue and also say he makes no changes below 3k rpm, now it's pretty apparent it is a tuning issue.

I'm all for it. Maybe we could create a separate thread where we would gather everyone with this issue and Alpine tune and then contact Alex. I think it would be fair to pay extra for this feature, so it would be good to split the cost.
I would be so much happier with a smooth low end rev range haha

[tdott]

Originally Posted by MikeYQM

Most tunes are canned, off-the-shelf, and don't accommodate any mods or vehicle data (notice how they don't ask for vehicle data or a mods list?). From what I understand, Epic is as close to custom as you can get without strapping onto the dyno for tuning sessions.

If it wasn't for him saying he had a tune specific for headers then I wouldn't have went with his tune.

Sounds like he just gave me pretty much the same tune he gives everyone else.