E92 M3 ZCP in SCCA Solo F Street

[Rexpelagi]

Originally Posted by Blue Gumby

Does the car have competition package?

Yes - my car and Sean's are both effectively no-option ZCP 6-speed coupes.

[Rexpelagi]

Here are my best runs - a lot of correction on day 1 which prompted a setup change on the front bar. It felt better on day 2, but there's still a lot of correction. Definitely some work to be done.

[Blue Gumby]

Are you still on stock shocks?

[Rexpelagi]

Originally Posted by Blue Gumby

Are you still on stock shocks?

Yes - partly because there isn't an easy replacement option but also because the car seems to handle well in this trim. I don't plan to change off them.

[Golddots]

I have a set of re71r in 265 and 275 waiting to be mounted.

what pressures would you all recommend?

i have a nitrogen tire machine at work. i'm thinking of just setting the tires at 32 with nitrogen and bleeding back down to 32.

do you guys think the re71r will need spraying? i ran ad08r last year and they didn't seem to be affected by a lot of heat and i tend to toss the car around.

I'm also running FS in the dc scca region, but "non comp" so i can run in the morning heats.

[z3papa]

Originally Posted by Rexpelagi

Yes - partly because there isn't an easy replacement option but also because the car seems to handle well in this trim. I don't plan to change off them.

Which bar did he have and settings did you switch to?

[Rexpelagi]

Originally Posted by 414hpbabyshuttle

I have a set of re71r in 265 and 275 waiting to be mounted.

what pressures would you all recommend?

i have a nitrogen tire machine at work. i'm thinking of just setting the tires at 32 with nitrogen and bleeding back down to 32.

do you guys think the re71r will need spraying? i ran ad08r last year and they didn't seem to be affected by a lot of heat and i tend to toss the car around.

I'm also running FS in the dc scca region, but "non comp" so i can run in the morning heats.

That is a little low on pressures - we were playing in the mid 30's, but that will change based on the lot. I'd start around 35psi, unless it is high grip in which case you might need to try higher.

No one has found time by spraying - they like the heat (at least as much as anyone has been able to give with ambient up to ~75-80°F).

Originally Posted by z3papa

Which bar did he have and settings did you switch to?

Dinan - went middle to full stiff.

For those not familiar with Qualcomm it is a very abrasive but yet low grip surface. Other people have said that a balanced setup tends to be loose at Qualcomm, so keep that in mind.

[CSBM5]

John,

I see you have a FS Shelby GT also. Just curious how you compare driving the M3 vs it? I was just out in San Diego two weeks ago...sure would have been fun to delay my trip a bit and find a co-drive as that looks like a fun course (and who could beat the weather there, incredible).

Regards,
Chuck

[z3papa]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

John,

I see you have a FS Shelby GT also. Just curious how you compare driving the M3 vs it? I was just out in San Diego two weeks ago...sure would have been fun to delay my trip a bit and find a co-drive as that looks like a fun course (and who could beat the weather there, incredible).

Regards,
Chuck

I'd like to know this as well. The guy I ran against both days this weekend was Bob Gosda who runs a 2007 Shelby GT clone and has done fairly well the past four years but came to quick conclusion it was time for a new car after this weekend.

[Rexpelagi]

Originally Posted by z3papa

I'd like to know this as well. The guy I ran against both days this weekend was Bob Gosda who runs a 2007 Shelby GT clone and has done fairly well the past four years but came to quick conclusion it was time for a new car after this weekend.

The Shelby is much stiffer than the M3, but the M3 is faster and narrower. I don't have a real fair comparison though, as I've never driven an M3 before Saturday and I've never had the Shelby on 71R's or on that Qualcomm surface. I'll likely know more once I get to more familiar lots.

The Shelby is for sale, and I don't have the same tires for both vehicles, so a true head-to-head is unlikely. I'll let you guys know.

The Shelby hopefully isn't the Mustang I'd be worried about though - I *expect* closer competition with the 1LE's and the Boss Mustangs.

[z3papa]

I agree the 1LE and Boss Mustangs will be the closer competition. I considered both (along with 15 Stang and virtually every FS competitive vehicle) very closely before getting the car I have. I just couldn't swallow the Camaro tire costs and weight adjustment coming from a 2700# car but the right package could be had for reasonable cost.

[lacartus]

Originally Posted by Rexpelagi

8/32" is the molded depth - in tire depths are always lower than molded depths. The RE-71R is just a touch over 7/32" when you actually measure it. We ran them full depth (unshaved), and these had 6 quick hotlaps on the practice course from the day before.

Thanks, I just ordered a set of 265/35/18 & 275/35/18...thought I'd go 265 since I have the 8.5" front wheels.

[UNCbigM]

Awesome to see good results right out of the box from you guys in SD! Congrats!

I wasn't patient enough to wait on the 'Stones, but I'm also happy to have saved a few dollars by going with the Dunlops since I'm not doing any tours/nats with the M. I'm running 275 square on 18s, firmest setting on the Dinan bar, and Eisenmann sport. Single driver with 50's and 60's ambient temps on a mostly sealed surface for these two days (cooler the second day).

With that being said, I guess I'm getting used to the M a bit more. We had two one day autoxes at MCAS Cherry Point this past weekend and I was very happy with my results. Saturday I was 8th pax out of 117; Sunday 14th out of 101. Everyone ahead of me Saturday are tour/nats regulars, some with jackets/winning cars. So, as I said, very happy.

Locally our region is running pax classes for the season, so no FS championship, instead a Street championship. Won Saturday by 1.9 seconds and Sunday by .3. Video hopefully to follow. I'm definitely still learning the car, with the weight and power that I'm not used to. My biggest improvement came in actually slowing enough for the slower elements instead of pushing like mad because I didn't give up enough for them as was the case at my first event with the car. I think I still need to give up a tad more in a few of the corners and clean up my driving in general, but overall I am very pleased with the car so far.

Both this weekend and the earlier where my results were not as good, I can say without a doubt that I had a blast driving the car, results be damned. I can't wait for our next event.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by UNCbigM

Both this weekend and the earlier where my results were not as good, I can say without a doubt that I had a blast driving the car, results be damned. I can't wait for our next event.

Sounds like fun we all have with this platform...good job! Come to Danville this weekend for the THSCC autox.

[UNCbigM]

Nah, I need a weekend to spend with the family. We'll be back at CP May 17th...

[Richbot]

Trick for me on street tires is not just giving up enough in the slow stuff but then patience on throttle. Have to wait that extra beat or you get to countersteer

[UNCbigM]

A little countersteer is good for the soul.

I kinda hate that I have to wait until May to autox again. I was clearly in a place of complacency with my old car, as I haven't looked forward to autox this much in a while. May should be fun. Autox followed by road racing the following weekend!

[Richbot]

I know what you mean but this car goes from putting the power down with a little inside wheelspin to a hard-lockup without much in between, the diff is a little bit of a knife-edge IMO, especially down there in the slow 30 mph corners where it has enough torque to spin the inside wheel (which locks the diff after a tenth of a second or so) but not enough to really move the car anywhere but sideways.

[thasuperdude]

How big of an advantage are the ZCP cars over non-ZCP cars? I'm running in SM in the ATL in a E30/E36 swop, but in a year or 2 I might consider moving back into my own car. It's been awhile since I've run in "Street" class.

[z3papa]

Originally Posted by thasuperdude

How big of an advantage are the ZCP cars over non-ZCP cars? I'm running in SM in the ATL in a E30/E36 swop, but in a year or 2 I might consider moving back into my own car. It's been awhile since I've run in "Street" class.

Here's my take for whatever it's worth -- FStreet M3's, while they have better front chassis geometry than an E46 and earlier BMW's, is still strangled by camber limitations. The stiffer springs, lower COG, slightly better EDC if they are using that, and wider wheel which can either accept a wider tire or stretch a tire more optimally all incrementally helps. Does it mean an alien in a non ZCP can't blow away a chump in a ZCP, no, but the same driver in both cars will notice the difference.

[thasuperdude]

Thanks. I ran in STX last year at Lincoln and quickly learned my '05 WRX was NOT the car to run. Locally it won the last 2 years with myself and my wife driving. I don't have intentions (at the moment) to run the M3, but...

Are you able to run the ZCP wheels on a non-ZCP car in FS? I know they're are letting people move +/- an inch in diameter, but not sure about widths. Also, adding the SB, sounds like most, if not all, folks run the bar on the front? Is there one manufacturer that's better at it then others? Again, in the Subaru world, Whiteline was a no brainer for our cars. Learning the BMW world quickly

[Richbot]

Before the +- 1" wheel diameter allowance, I would have called it a wash because the 19" wheel hamstrings you on tire choice due to clearance, but now that you can downsize to an 18x9 and 18x10, it's a no-brainer to get a ZCP car if you can.

You can't run the ZCP wheels on a non-ZCP car in FS. You can do an "option package conversion" which means installing all of the parts that were available, but only if your car is the same model year as the year the package was available. So if you have a non ZCP 2011+ car, you can convert to ZCP using OEM suspension parts, wheels that fit the rules, and the appropriate software changes to EDC and traction control (these updates are available on the aftermarket if you already have an EDC car), and adding EDC if necessary. You can't just slap shocks and the ZCP springs on a non-EDC car, you need to add the wiring etc, because otherwise it's not a complete conversion. This seems like an absurd result until you realize how expensive it is to mix and match OEM parts to get the bestest car possible. It gets old quickly, and would result in a thousand-foot thick rulebook delineating models/options/etc. So no update/backdate or mixing and matching of parts unless you can do a COMPLETE option package conversion within your car's model year. Your sig says '09, no ZCP for you. That said, the only real downside is less front wheel, I don't think the springs matter much.

I recommend the Dinan bar, I think it's higher quality than the bar I have, the RD Sport bar, though I haven't had any issues with mine. Say yes to the front bar.