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      01-24-2020, 06:14 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KawBoy View Post
I had this very same issue. It started when I first used Liqui Moly (10W60). By the time I've got home, the noise was there. Switched back to Castrol (the OEM stuff) and everything got back to normal. I don't have the answer though. Liqui is superb, really good stuff, but my engine didn't like it.
I am now using Valvoline VR1 20W50 and all is good.
Liqui Moly = => https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1404625
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      01-24-2020, 06:57 PM   #156
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The way I understand, oil viscosity is not going to affect the tight OEM bearing clearances. If much, with tight clearances, you'd have higher oil pressure if a heavier oil is used, but the clearance is there, a fixed, known variable.
As long as the cold and high RPM oil pressures are within the motor lubrication system parameters, one should be safe. Living in Florida with its hot climate, having a thicker oil film during motor start-ups, IMHO, is a better thing. And, as a bonus, it fixed the rattle noise during motor cold starts after a longer period of resting.
Now, as for the 50 versus 60... well, that's a different story.
Again, this is my opinion; please do not take this as a recommendation.
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      01-25-2020, 06:39 AM   #157
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No, no, you're getting mixed up.
Although thicker oil doesn't physically affect the clearance gaps, it very definitely means it won't flow through as quickly! Yes you'll have higher oil pressure when the engine's cold, but that's because it's harder & slower for the oil to go through all the bearings etc.

With tighter clearances, when the engine's cold (any engine), which means when it's fully cooled down, (not just when ambient temperatures are low), the oil (any oil) is thicker & takes longer to be pumped around the engine than when it's hot (warmed up engine).

When you do a stone cold start it takes a second or 2 to build up pressure, which means (on any engine) on starting* you've got metal to metal contact briefly, which is worse on a cold start (engine cooled right off) as the oil takes longer to go around. Add to this the overly tight big end bearings clearances the S65 has (including the later alu/tin bearings to a slightly lesser degree), it means the oil takes a bit longer still to go round, & you're compounding this by using a 20w-x oil instead of a 10w-x oil.
So even if you're coldest morning temp is ~20C, you're engine is definitely worse off with higher 'w' rated oil.

*btw, bearing manufacturers have had to make 'tougher' bearings for cars that have auto stop-start! I wonder if that's made the S65 bearing issue worse in later S65s??.....

Yes, doing a cold start in cold ambient temp's makes this much worse (you likely wouldn't have got away with it to date with freezing temp's!), but seeing as theirs fairly good evidence that the S65s tight big end bearing clearances are the major cause of premature wear or even failure, putting thicker (cold rating 'w') oil in your engine is making this more likely!
Honestly mate, I think you're really risking it putting a thicker 'w' oil in it! I wouldn't want to see you posting a thread further down the road saying 'rod bearings failed!'

As you say the 50/60 oil rating discussion is another story, but their is sound reasoning for going for a 5w-50 oil instead of 10w-60, and this is done primarily to get the thinner 'w' rated oil (not the hot 50 rating) to improve oil flow on (engine) cold starts. The trouble is all oils shear (wear) down (long before their service life in some cases), which means they become thinner at the top rating at least (and I believe the colder end becomes thicker too).
So e.g. you can see in many oil reports that 10w-60 shears down to a 50 grade oil after a few 1000 miles typically, and a 50 oil will shear down to a 40 grade oil, some oils will hold onto their fresh grades longer than others.
The other issue with using -50 oil is that it could potentially be too thin under arduous conditions, & when it's sheared down some. Although I haven't come across a failed engine due to that yet (early days for me reading about this though!).

The ideal oil would be a 5w-60, but that doesn't exist.
Anyway, in any climate, with the S65 engine, you really don't want to be going over a 10w- oil.
Read more about oil gradings here

Last edited by Assimilator1; 03-29-2020 at 02:40 PM..
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      01-25-2020, 08:15 AM   #158
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OK.
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      01-27-2020, 09:08 AM   #159
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Well after a run of 240 miles yesterday at 80-90 mph and cool down over night, the ticking is still there ☹️
I’ll be taking it up to the BMW tech this afternoon to see what the next steps are...
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      01-27-2020, 09:09 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acarr6 View Post
I had almost exactly the same tick in my car stroker. Turned out to be a stuck lifter. Oil change with additive and some steady mid RPM holding got rid of it..
Were you able to get this procedure from the tech who worked on your car?
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      01-27-2020, 11:42 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grantwoodOK View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by acarr6 View Post
I had almost exactly the same tick in my car stroker. Turned out to be a stuck lifter. Oil change with additive and some steady mid RPM holding got rid of it..
Were you able to get this procedure from the tech who worked on your car?
Shit, my apologies for not responding. He was able to give me partial insight,

He said he used LiquiMoly 20004 hydraulic lifter additive after changing the oil. The reviving procedure he didn't recall 100% what he did, but something along the lines of holding at a steady 3,000 RPM for 2 minutes, then releasing to idle for 5 then repeat, and the ticking eventually went away
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      01-27-2020, 03:09 PM   #162
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BAD NEWS!

So before I did anything else I wanted to look at the filter after yesterday’s run so pulled the filter out... and it’s bad news. When I replaced the oil 10 days ago the screen was clear when I washed it in gasoline. Just a few bits of gunk/thicker oil. Also the oil pan has metallic drain plugs just in case. So from the to now either the lifter has collapsed or a bearing is going. It will be dropped off at the BMW tech tomorrow for investigation. I have contacted the original engine builder and let him know that there is something happening in the engine and it maybe rod/bearing related...



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      01-27-2020, 05:41 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grantwoodOK View Post
So before I did anything else I wanted to look at the filter after yesterday’s run so pulled the filter out... and it’s bad news. When I replaced the oil 10 days ago the screen was clear when I washed it in gasoline. Just a few bits of gunk/thicker oil. Also the oil pan has metallic drain plugs just in case. So from the to now either the lifter has collapsed or a bearing is going. It will be dropped off at the BMW tech tomorrow for investigation. I have contacted the original engine builder and let him know that there is something happening in the engine and it maybe rod/bearing related...



Oh man. That's not good
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      01-28-2020, 10:38 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grantwoodOK View Post
So before I did anything else I wanted to look at the filter after yesterday’s run so pulled the filter out... and it’s bad news. When I replaced the oil 10 days ago the screen was clear when I washed it in gasoline. Just a few bits of gunk/thicker oil. Also the oil pan has metallic drain plugs just in case. So from the to now either the lifter has collapsed or a bearing is going. It will be dropped off at the BMW tech tomorrow for investigation. I have contacted the original engine builder and let him know that there is something happening in the engine and it maybe rod/bearing related...
Shiite, looks awful. Really hope you get the engine builder hooked up and you nail the issue. Keep us posted.

Good luck!
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      01-28-2020, 11:05 AM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grantwoodOK View Post
So before I did anything else I wanted to look at the filter after yesterday’s run so pulled the filter out... and it’s bad news. When I replaced the oil 10 days ago the screen was clear when I washed it in gasoline. Just a few bits of gunk/thicker oil. Also the oil pan has metallic drain plugs just in case. So from the to now either the lifter has collapsed or a bearing is going. It will be dropped off at the BMW tech tomorrow for investigation. I have contacted the original engine builder and let him know that there is something happening in the engine and it maybe rod/bearing related...



I really hope I'm wrong . But from the situation (metal shavings) in your pics it's already too late ...
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      01-28-2020, 11:08 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by Helmsman View Post
Shiite, looks awful. Really hope you get the engine builder hooked up and you nail the issue. Keep us posted.

Good luck!
That my friend is going to be the challenge here. When the car originally went to him in April 2017 he had the car until December of 2017 and I had to hire a PI to find him and the car as he kept stringing me along with completion dates. Not until the PI put pressure on him did the work actually get done. Now 2 years later and 15K miles on it another engine failure. I have also found out from the PI I hired there are 2 pending suits against him for engine failure and a 3rd had just been settled...

Stay tunned!

Last edited by grantwoodOK; 01-28-2020 at 11:18 AM.. Reason: Spelling
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      01-28-2020, 11:09 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
I really hope I'm wrong . But from the situation (metal shavings) in your pics it's already too late ...
Agreed. With what's in the container there are metal, aluminum and copper colored flakes so it's at least 1 rod bearing!
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      01-28-2020, 11:11 AM   #168
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this is that jeup dude? the one that everyone praises for being a s65/85 master???
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      01-28-2020, 11:20 AM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grantwoodOK View Post
Agreed. With what's in the container there are metal, aluminum and copper colored flakes so it's at least 1 rod bearing!
No good mate . Just be prepared for the worse . I'm sorry man .
OFC I wish you the best of luck !
Keep us posted ...
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      01-28-2020, 11:26 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
No good mate . Just be prepared for the worse . I'm sorry man .
OFC I wish you the best of luck !
Keep us posted ...
Been through this once before so I know what to expect. We have lawyers...
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      01-28-2020, 11:47 AM   #171
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Fuuuuuuk.

So sorry to hear this. I dream of putting a stroker in my M3 some day... But man, this would be heartbreaking.

Best of luck with your pursuit. Please let us know what failed and why if you can.

Cheers,
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      01-28-2020, 01:19 PM   #172
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Oh dear
Keep us posted, fingers crossed for you....
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      01-28-2020, 01:30 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s0ldats View Post
this is that jeup dude? the one that everyone praises for being a s65/85 master???
Maybe master of disaster...

https://www.google.com/search?q=troy...obile&ie=UTF-8
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      01-29-2020, 02:50 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grantwoodOK View Post
That my friend is going to be the challenge here. When the car originally went to him in April 2017 he had the car until December of 2017 and I had to hire a PI to find him and the car as he kept stringing me along with completion dates. Not until the PI put pressure on him did the work actually get done. Now 2 years later and 15K miles on it another engine failure. I have also found out from the PI I hired there are 2 pending suits against him for engine failure and a 3rd had just been settled...

Stay tunned!
Wow, a PI like in Private Investigator..!? (we don't even have that over here..). I really feel sorry for your man, with that track record of his this looks like a night mare. Fortunately its still "only" a car/money but still... Crossing fingers mate!
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      01-29-2020, 09:21 AM   #175
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Wow, a PI like in Private Investigator..!? (we don't even have that over here..). I really feel sorry for your man, with that track record of his this looks like a night mare. Fortunately its still "only" a car/money but still... Crossing fingers mate!
Yes a Private Investigator 😃
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      02-01-2020, 05:39 PM   #176
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oh man... best of luck. i'm not sure why ppl trust this dude. he seems like a wackjob
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