BorgWarner produced DSG for M3?

[Epacy]

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/11/13/b...-a-better-dsg/

BorgWarner's dual-clutch DSG (direct-shift gearbox) transmission systems have been showing up in Volkswagen and Audi vehicles since 2003. The system utilizes two clutches to select gears, allowing for smooth, uninterrupted power delivery. The clutches are electro-hydraulically actuated, allowing for virtually instant gear changes and control logic that pre-selects the next required gear. While BorgWarner's original DSG design has allowed for greater fuel-efficiency over traditional automatic transmissions, it has had room for improvement. The original design is a wet-clutch system, meaning the clutches operate in a bath of oil to keep temperatures down and eliminate wear. The oiling system requires large pumps to keep up the constant flow through the system and it also creates hydraulic drag that affects efficiency.

However, with recent announcements coming out of the BorgWarner camp, it is apparent they are still on the leading edge of dual-clutch transmission development. The company is slated to provide systems for the upcoming Nissan GT-R and BMW M3. These are high power output applications that would be hindered by BorgWarner's original DSG design without improvements. For these next generation systems the wet-clutch system has been changed to a moist-clutch system requiring less lubrication and therefore a smaller oil pump. This also reduces hydraulic drag on the system, thus reducing drivetrain losses. The clutch materials have also been improved for heat transfer and wear properties. The use of materials that do not degrade with friction or waste mechanical energy through heat generation allow the clutch design to live in these more stressful environments and to do so more efficiently.

[Source: BorgWarner via CNNMoney.com]

[southlight]

That's confusing. BorgWarner brought out a PR on his web pag, but they don't mention the M3. Wonder if one of the guys at cnnmoney added the M3!? The rumour had it that Getrag is the DSG development partner on that project...

Best regards, south

[footie]

I do know that this system is meant to be going into the new Gallardo and R8v10, also Audi are about to release their new A4,Q5,A5 etc with DSG also. It does look like the world will be full of them.

My only concern is the price BMW might be charging for the DCT in the M3, if the talk of 5000euros is right then it will be well above either VW or Audi have been charging.

[epiphone3]

Getrag and ZF were competing for the M-DCT and supposedly Getrag won. Borg Warner has no involvement with BMW.

[swiss_cornholio]

Originally Posted by southlight

That's confusing. BorgWarner brought out a PR on his web pag, but they don't mention the M3. Wonder if one of the guys at cnnmoney added the M3!? The rumour had it that Getrag is the DSG development partner on that project...

Best regards, south

A friend of mine works for a supplier of Getrag. He told me that the M-DCT will definitely be from Getrag. However he doesn't know anything about the release schedule.

[southlight]

Originally Posted by swiss_cornholio

A friend of mine works for a supplier of Getrag. He told me that the M-DCT will definitely be from Getrag. However he doesn't know anything about the release schedule.

Thanks, so cnnmoney seems to be wrong here.

Best regards, south

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by southlight

Thanks, so cnnmoney seems to be wrong here.

Best regards, south

If you look, the source is actually BorgWarner.

Who made the GT-R DSG?

[southlight]

Originally Posted by Epacy

If you look, the source is actually BorgWarner.

Who made the GT-R DSG?

Do you have this PR on a BorgWarner site also? Didn't find it, only an article on the GT-R DSG, which they made.

Best regards, south

[Epacy]

No I don't. Just what was in the article.

[paulyd]

Weird that you found that Epacy CNN article...

Everything else says Getrag, and most reference Autocar as the source.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/225812/

[southlight]

Originally Posted by Epacy

No I don't. Just what was in the article.

Why do we care, it's only the DCT!?

Best regards, south

[paulyd]

Originally Posted by southlight

Why do we care, it's only the DCT!?

Best regards, south

says the 6MT dinosaur...

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by epiphone3

Getrag and ZF were competing for the M-DCT and supposedly Getrag won. Borg Warner has no involvement with BMW.

Correction:

BW owns the patent on the DCT mechanism, dual-tronic, and also (sometimes) supplies certain subsytems. Getrag is licensing this mechanism for inclusion in their own trannys.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007...rner-to-q.html

[footie]

And everyone pays royalities to Audi for inventing the thing in the first place.

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by footie

And everyone pays royalities to Audi for inventing the thing in the first place.

Audi did not invent it and Porsche is credited with the first practical use in racing cars such as the 962.

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by Epacy

Who made the GT-R DSG?

BorgWarner supplies most of the components. I think Nissan technically "makes" the transmission.

[footie]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

Audi did not invent it and Porsche is credited with the first practical use in racing cars such as the 962.

Actually it was Audi engineers who developed it for the 962 and again it was them who were helping Porsche develop it for their present day cars as well.

[Vince S.]

BW actually just announced the next gen DCT here.

And it includes Getrag as well.

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by Vince S.

BW actually just announced the next gen DCT here.

And it includes Getrag as well.

Excellent, thanks.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by Vince S.

BW actually just announced the next gen DCT here.

And it includes Getrag as well.

So, if Getrag is using BW technology, indirectly BW is supplying BMW with transmissions. Interesting. As long as they're not being made in China!

[rvacha]

PR guys at work me thinks. The BW press release claims 40% improvement over the existing DCT?!!! Given that the clutch spends 99.9% of its time not slipping the only way that would be possible is if the high pressure pump were an incredible pig, or the gears are cut differently. I can't beleive it is because it is "moist" instead of "wet" (which is splitting hairs anyway)

And according to Autocar dealers have been informed of the new DCT? There's little chance that this has been kept secret from us - the rabid BMW fan? The rest of the article is just pulling stuff out of the tightest of orfices. What news!

[epiphone3]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

Correction:

BW owns the patent on the DCT mechanism, dual-tronic, and also (sometimes) supplies certain subsytems. Getrag is licensing this mechanism for inclusion in their own trannys.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007...rner-to-q.html

are you sure? Because the ZF system seemed to be a variation that I had not seen chez BW... maybe Getrag just licensed the mechanism?