Who is Michael Cooper? M3 driver in CTS-V Challenge!

[M_Time]

Props for Michael !!!

I can imagine the old Hags faces after his timed runs....

[TwoSaints]

I know I'm getting to this a little late but I just wanted to chime in. First, I'd like to congratulate Michael C. on his accomplishment. All arguments aside, I think you did a great job representing the M3 but on a higher note, representing yourself - maybe it's your shyness but you come across as a very mature 21 year old (I'm not too much older so take that for what it's worth).

To the CTS-V owner, I can understand where you're coming from and I don't think anyone can argue that the M3 and it's driver won the event. To be honest though, I don't see a problem with claiming some victory for the M3. The truth about the event is like you and others have said - there was no way the CTS-V was going to lose. GM was willing and ready to pull out all the stops to make sure their car was going to come out on top - not a luxury BMW had in this event. The only drivers Michael lost to had TONS of experience. Just taking this into consideration, I would say that it's very fair to walk away feeling like this was a win for BMW's M3 (by way of Mike C.) all over just as it is a victory for GM's CTS-V's who are driven by professional drivers. What would an M3 have had accomplished with a professional driver, we'll never know but what we do know is that a min to moderately trained driver did very very well against the pro's.

I hate to be "that guy" who breaks this down into sub-classes but it's awfully hard to ignore the difference in experience. M3 with less experience loses to CTS-V with more experience - thats all great but I wouldn't be too excited about that outcome if I were GM. Mike C. deserves all the recognition in the car world for what he's done - I think that talent like that should be facilitated. If GM wants to invest in a driver I'd say they need to get a hold of Mike and see what he can do with some more time invested into him.

I'm glad everyone had a good time out there, it's a testament to the real car enthusiast's out there. I hope I don't come across as a brand fanboy - I'm not, this is my first BMW and it may or may not be my last... who knows.

[footie]

Originally Posted by Smokey

The press guy was Wes and he didn't drive the XFR because Jag dropped out of the race: "Stuart Schorr, Jaguar's main product PR man, told us flat out he expected the XFR would lose to the CTS-V, so it's not that he's afraid to lose to "Maximum" Bob Lutz." :
http://jalopnik.com/5391222/jaguar-p...nik-vs-gm-race

I don't think the XFR will be that great a track car, it's suspension is primarily set up for the road and as a road car it excellence, probably best in class.

It's all down to what you look from a car. Without ever driving a CTS-V I can't comment how good a daily driver it is or at this is it neatly as good as the XFR. There's no doubt that for a big heavy car it equips itself remarkably well on the track.

[cjfairman]

Originally Posted by paddyrx8

The Cadi V logo is such a rip off of the BM M logo.

Now we're bashing logos? Wow. I came back today hoping to learn more about the M3. The V logo is a hybrid taken from the flags on the corvette logo since they share some architechture, and technology. I bought it as basically a 4 door, heavy vette, that is much easier and quieter to haul a family around in and stuff some golf clubs in the trunk. I'm fairly certain the graphic artists and logo people didn't steal the M logo, but if they did then kudos to M logo designers.

The level of intelligent conversation and debate here has reached a new low.

Well BMW stole the idea of a round wheel from the caveman who came up with it. geesh. One ridiculous comment deserves another.

Is there a "stupid filter" on this forum so I can just stick to reading posts from the cool car guys who like exchanging info about cars?

[C17MooseDriver]

Originally Posted by cjfairman

Now we're bashing logos? Wow. I came back today hoping to learn more about the M3. The V logo is a hybrid taken from the flags on the corvette logo since they share some architechture, and technology. I bought it as basically a 4 door, heavy vette, that is much easier and quieter to haul a family around in and stuff some golf clubs in the trunk. I'm fairly certain the graphic artists and logo people didn't steal the M logo, but if they did then kudos to M logo designers.

The level of intelligent conversation and debate here has reached a new low.

Well BMW stole the idea of a round wheel from the caveman who came up with it. geesh. One ridiculous comment deserves another.

Is there a "stupid filter" on this forum so I can just stick to reading posts from the cool car guys who like exchanging info about cars?

If we had a stupid filter, half the internet would be blocked. Just ignore those stupid posts. Majority of the guys here are great, and like anywhere else, we have a few that is not so great.

[foosh]

Originally Posted by cjfairman

Now we're bashing logos? Wow. I came back today hoping to learn more about the M3. The V logo is a hybrid taken from the flags on the corvette logo since they share some architechture, and technology. I bought it as basically a 4 door, heavy vette, that is much easier and quieter to haul a family around in and stuff some golf clubs in the trunk. I'm fairly certain the graphic artists and logo people didn't steal the M logo, but if they did then kudos to M logo designers.

The level of intelligent conversation and debate here has reached a new low.

Well BMW stole the idea of a round wheel from the caveman who came up with it. geesh. One ridiculous comment deserves another.

Is there a "stupid filter" on this forum so I can just stick to reading posts from the cool car guys who like exchanging info about cars?

I wish . . . Thanks also for you participation here. The majority of the stupid comments are coming from people who aren't even bothering to read.

I was also shocked at the level of "fan-boyism," when I purchased my M3 and came here. It exists in the internet forums of all marques, but I find it higher than usual for the M3.

The M3 seems to appeal to a relatively younger demographic than most performance cars, and the resulting maturity level often doesn't suit my tastes. I find myself frequently annoyed.

I think many of these individuals here have purchased it as their first high-performance car (graduating from Civics and Accords), and they simply don't have any other experience with performance cars. Couple that with a desire to justify to themselves those high monthly payments are worth it, that they have purchased the very best, and you have what we see here.

On the positive side, there are some very intelligent, well-informed, and thoughtful people here. You have to spend some time here to find out who they are. I tend to only read posts when I see certain names associated with a discussion.

All the best, and enjoy your V. I may purchase one yet!

[footie]

Originally Posted by cjfairman

The level of intelligent conversation and debate here has reached a new low.

Well BMW stole the idea of a round wheel from the caveman who came up with it. geesh. One ridiculous comment deserves another.

Is there a "stupid filter" on this forum so I can just stick to reading posts from the cool car guys who like exchanging info about cars?

+1,

The debates here have got stupider and stupider, debate logos........are we serious.

Such a filter would be a wonderful idea and probably get things back on track again.

[FStop7]

Is there going to be a V version of the CTS coupe?

[Jaypod]

Originally Posted by FStop7

Is there going to be a V version of the CTS coupe?

Certainly hope so!

[POWERFULL]

Originally Posted by M_Time

Props for Michael !!!

I can imagine the old Hags faces after his timed runs....

+1 they must of been heated.

[cjfairman]

Originally Posted by Jaypod

Certainly hope so!

I've heard lots of debate on Coupe and Wagons.

What I've heard is coupe and wagon is coming. V versions are being debated in the meetings every week. Supposedly, during the GM financial troubles the performance division was disolved. It appears almost like they are operating like a special black ops division of the military. Performance, gas guzzlers is something the tree huggers don't want to hear although people want to buy them and they are profitable.

Our government is legislating themselves out of competition. BMW, Merc, Audi etc all have the advantage so to speak of not selling enough units; therefore, the CAFE standards do not apply and they can make and sell whatever they want in America. On the other hand since GM, Ford and Chrysler sell so many more units overall, the government ties their hands on fuel economy standards and it makes it difficult to compete. Did you know the Corvette gets something like 26 mpg on the highway? That is crazy for a sports car of its caliber. The engineers would rather put more effort in performance than fuel economy, but if they want to keep building them, they must satisy the government first. It sucks to be an American car maker right now. Our government is making it harder to compete in our own country.

Chris

[bobbyd1961]

i love it M3 reigns supreme!!!!! great job michael . humble before i love it that ctsv now understands what an M3 is

[bobbyd1961]

i dont think hes 60 and im sure he had professional instruction on that track for about 6 months and lost to the M3

[shchow]

I apologize if this has already been mentioned...
But the GM drivers WERE NOT DRIVING THEIR OWN CARS!
It is an entirely different motivation when you are driving someone else's car versus taking YOUR OWN CAR to the limit
My point is that Michael would have even been faster if he was driving someone else's car...

[Moth]

Originally Posted by shchow

I apologize if this has already been mentioned...
But the GM drivers WERE NOT DRIVING THEIR OWN CARS!
It is an entirely different motivation when you are driving someone else's car versus taking YOUR OWN CAR to the limit
My point is that Michael would have even been faster if he was driving someone else's car...

Thats a very good point but lets take it a step further. I'm sure the tires, brakes, fluids, and every other item prone to wear was addressed on the GM supplied CTS-Vs before the event. The suspension (camber, toe, etc) could have very well been also optimized for this particular track to ensure that the car was perfect in every way. Sure the participants could have addressed general maintenance areas before the event and some did. But the I wouldn't be surprised if the GM supplied V's were downright perfect. It was an uphill battle for anyone participating but Michael stuck it to them with "his" M3. Makes even more special.

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by shchow

I apologize if this has already been mentioned...
But the GM drivers WERE NOT DRIVING THEIR OWN CARS!
It is an entirely different motivation when you are driving someone else's car versus taking YOUR OWN CAR to the limit
My point is that Michael would have even been faster if he was driving someone else's car...

Only Michael would know that.

Personally, I've always driven my cars harder on track than someone else's car on track. Always.

In addition, Michael seems to feel that the CTS-V is stronger than the M3 on that track, even with the added chicane reducing its acceleration advantage.

I can tell you I'm a little taken aback by that, as I've already mentioned.

[Jaypod]

Originally Posted by cjfairman

I've heard lots of debate on Coupe and Wagons.

What I've heard is coupe and wagon is coming. V versions are being debated in the meetings every week. Supposedly, during the GM financial troubles the performance division was disolved. It appears almost like they are operating like a special black ops division of the military. Performance, gas guzzlers is something the tree huggers don't want to hear although people want to buy them and they are profitable.

Our government is legislating themselves out of competition. BMW, Merc, Audi etc all have the advantage so to speak of not selling enough units; therefore, the CAFE standards do not apply and they can make and sell whatever they want in America. On the other hand since GM, Ford and Chrysler sell so many more units overall, the government ties their hands on fuel economy standards and it makes it difficult to compete. Did you know the Corvette gets something like 26 mpg on the highway? That is crazy for a sports car of its caliber. The engineers would rather put more effort in performance than fuel economy, but if they want to keep building them, they must satisy the government first. It sucks to be an American car maker right now. Our government is making it harder to compete in our own country.

Chris

For me the jury is still out on the wagon, but I do like the lines of the coupe and a V version would be killer. Its unfortunate that the financial troubles are going to kill such programs - to me I think they are important to the overall business, you know the old saying "Race on Sunday, Sell on Monday".
I know someone with at C6Z06 that is putting down 540RWHP, I dont recall but I think he said his cruising speed rpm on the hiway was something like 1600 and having followed him to a few track days its amazing how quiet it is even with the aftermarket exhuast etc.

Days like you and Michael experienced certainly do help with awareness (look at the chatter on the forums!). Not to take anything away from Michael's achievement, but most people have no idea that the top three CTSV times didnt technically count so it looks like the CTSV was the clear winner of the Challenge - so definitely a great Marketing tool by Lutz! I personally really dont think he cares that a "kid" in an M3 beat him - I am sure he is sitting in his favorite chair right now smoking a cigar, sipping on scotch and thinking "God I am good" lol

[the///Mthree]

Originally Posted by shchow

My point is that Michael would have even been faster if he was driving someone else's car...

Not the case at all. If I'm driving it, IM DRIVING IT!!!!!!

[footie]

Bruce,

I do get what he meant or what I think he meant, which was when you are driving someone else's car that happens to be owned by a manufacturer and they is no comeback if you have an off. In those situations I know you are able to drive far hard.

[Cabinetman]

One thing Michael showed us is the importance of the driver mod that so often gets overlooked. People will spend thousands on wheels, exhausts, BBKs , etc... and never take a single driving course. I know that I have been guilty of this myself. Michael has shown that with a little training, and a healthy dose of God given talent it appears, a less capable car can run with the big dogs.

[linsm3]

I totally agree, I'm well overdue for a driving course and that's first to happen next year, any recommendations guys?

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by footie

Bruce,

I do get what he meant or what I think he meant, which was when you are driving someone else's car that happens to be owned by a manufacturer and they is no comeback if you have an off. In those situations I know you are able to drive far hard.

As mentioned, only Michael would know if he was holding back - but he thinks the CTS-V is faster.

Personally, I have driven manufacturer's cars on track, and have held back compared to driving my own. For me, it would be personally embarrassing if I were to assume a sickly grin while returning the car in the form of a smoking shift lever and pointing in the direction of the rest of the steaming pile.

Bruce