Using tire warmers to break in R comps?

[Envyscorpio]

Hello all,

Just wondering if I should invest in tire warmers to pre-heat the R comps I run for DE and count them as breaking in the tires much like what tire rack offers?

I drive like a granny on street and would never be able to heat up the tires enough on the street to make any difference. And I heard tire rack's initial heat cycle service don't heat up the side completely.

If heating R comp to 180F on track and take off to cure helps remove gases, junk and restructure the rubber. Can tire warmers mimic same effect?

looking forward for replies

[okusa]

Definitely save your money as I don't think there's anything to be gained. Run 1-2 warm up laps, depending on feel and what the particular tire likes, and go hot. That's all I've ever done and it seems to work perfectly well.

[Envyscorpio]

Originally Posted by okusa

Definitely save your money as I don't think there's anything to be gained. Run 1-2 warm up laps, depending on feel and what the particular tire likes, and go hot. That's all I've ever done and it seems to work perfectly well.

But I drive to track and back. I don't carry 2 sets just to swap for break in

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by Envyscorpio

Hello all, Just wondering if I should invest in tire warmers to pre-heat the R comps I run for DE and count them as breaking in the tires much like what tire rack offers? I drive like a granny on street and would never be able to heat up the tires enough on the street to make any difference. And I heard tire rack's initial heat cycle service don't heat up the side completely. If heating R comp to 180F on track and take off to cure helps remove gases, junk and restructure the rubber. Can tire warmers mimic same effect? looking forward for replies

The short answer is no. Initial heat cycling not only heats up new track tires, but also 'exercises' the the tire through its first fatigue cycle by flexing the tread belts, body carcass plies, bead components and tread compound. It is the combination of heat and rolling (cyclic bending flexure) that allows for further cross linking (within the tire's components) from sulphur vulcanization to further stabilize the tire's structural components and compounds prior to running hot laps on track.

Example:
Imagine if you bought a new pair of running shoes and needed to break them in prior to running in a race. If you put them in the oven and heated them up they would not become broken in. Perhaps this is a bad example, but it's close to what you need to know i.e. the initial heat cycle must include not just bringing the tire up to operated temperature but also flexure of the tire components (a fatigue cycle) before leaving the tires alone for 24 hours prior to use on track.

All tires deflect under load, and their tread rubber compounds repeatedly stretch and relax as they roll into and out of contact with the road. This stretching breaks some of the weaker bonds between the tread rubber molecules, generating heat. If new Track & Competition DOT tires are initially run too aggressively, too hot or too long, some of the stronger bonds will also be broken, which reduces tire grip and wear.

Putting new Track & Competition DOT tires through an easy initial heat cycle and then not running them for a minimum of 24 hours allows the rubber bonds to relink in a more uniform manner than they were originally manufactured. Heat cycling actually makes Track & Competition DOT tread compounds more consistent in strength and more resistant to losing their strength the next time they are used.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret....jsp?techid=66

[Envyscorpio]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

The short answer is no. Initial heat cycling not only heats up new track tires, but also 'exercises' the the tire through its first fatigue cycle by flexing the tread belts, body carcass plies, bead components and tread compound. It is the combination of heat and rolling (cyclic bending flexure) that allows for further cross linking (within the tire's components) from sulphur vulcanization to further stabilize the tire's structural components and compounds prior to running hot laps on track.

Example:
Imagine if you bought a new pair of running shoes and needed to break them in prior to running in a race. If you put them in the oven and heated them up they would not become broken in. Perhaps this is a bad example, but it's close to what you need to know i.e. the initial heat cycle must include not just bringing the tire up to operated temperature but also flexure of the tire components (a fatigue cycle) before to leaving the tires alone for 24 hours prior to use on track.

Thanks! The shoe example make great sense. So how do you guys break in your r comp before DE? I assume running them in on freeway isn’t enough correct?

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by Envyscorpio

Thanks! The shoe example make great sense. So how do you guys break in your r comp before DE? I assume running them in on freeway isn’t enough correct?

I'll give you one man's suggestion that I've personally used over the years with great success. Of course safety etc. is up to you. Put your R-Comp tires on the car. Measure the cold starting pressure and record it. Locate a highway nearby where you can drive the tires at highway speeds (say 70+ mph). Drive the tires at highway speeds for 30 minutes (say 15 minutes in each direction). After 30 minutes pull over safely and touch the tread of the tires. The tread should be quite hot to the touch. Measure and record the hot pressures. The hot pressure gain should be approximately 4psi to 5psi above the cold starting pressures.

Next, drive to a fairly twisty road (country lane etc.) and exercise the tires by steering and cornering hard (but safely) through the corners at reasonable speeds for about 15 minutes. Stop and touch the tire tread and measure the hot pressures. The hot pressure gain should now be 4psi to 6 psi over the cold starting pressure. The tread of the tires should be even hotter to the touch than it was after the highway drive. If not, repeat these two exercises vigorously for a total of at least one hour of driving (highway speeds + twisty road).

Drive home. Remove the tires from the car and let them sit for twenty four hours (24hrs) in a cool dry place away from O-zone (or electric motors which create O-zone)) until track use. R-Comp tire's operating temperature regimes are approximately 180F to 220F depending upon brand. Water boils at 212F. So if you don't have a pyrometer - and depending upon driver skill - R-Comps at operating temperature are almost scalding to the touch (skin temp is ~80F).

Always take advantage of the warm-up lap under the yellow flag AND the cool down laps. Use the brakes during the warm-up to put heat into the wheels and tires. Steer and corner hard in a sinusoidal manner under the yellow flag to exercise the tire carcass and belts and add more heat into the tires. Use the cool down lap not just for the car but also for the tires.

Enjoy and hope this helps.

[Envyscorpio]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

I'll give you one man's suggestion that I've personally used over the years with great success. Of course safety etc. is up to you. Put your R-Comp tires on the car. Measure the cold starting pressure and record it. Locate a highway nearby where you can drive the tires at highway speeds (say 70+ mph). Drive the tires at highway speeds for 30 minutes (say 15 minutes in each direction). After 30 minutes pull over safely and touch the tread of the tires. The tread should be quite hot to the touch. Measure and record the hot pressures. The hot pressure gain should be approximately 4psi to 5psi above the cold starting pressures.

Next, drive to a fairly twisty road (country lane etc.) and exercise the tires by steering and cornering hard (but safely) through the corners at reasonable speeds for about 15 minutes. Stop and touch the tire tread and measure the hot pressures. The hot pressure gain should now be 4psi to 6 psi over the cold starting pressure. The tread of the tires should be even hotter to the touch than it was after the highway drive. If not, repeat these two exercises vigorously for a total of at least one hour of driving (highway speeds + twisty road).

Drive home. Remove the tires from the car and let them sit for twenty four hours (24hrs) in a cool dry place away from O-zone (or electric motors which create O-zone)) until track use. R-Comp tire's operating temperature regimes are approximately 180F to 220F depending upon brand. Water boils at 212F. So if you don't have a pyrometer - and depending upon driver skill - R-Comps at operating temperature are almost scalding to the touch (skin temp is ~80F).

Always take advantage of the warm-up lap under the yellow flag AND the cool down laps. Use the brakes during the warm-up to put heat into the wheels and tires. Steer and corner hard in a sinusoidal manner under the yellow flag to exercise the tire carcass and belts and add more heat into the tires. Use the cool down lap not just for the car but also for the tires.

Enjoy and hope this helps.

I appreciate the long walkthrough. Away from O3 = in tire tote?

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by Envyscorpio

I appreciate the long walkthrough. Away from O3 = in tire tote?

Yes. Or in a cool basement or garage. Definitely off the car as well to avoid flat spotting.

[Envyscorpio]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Yes. Or in a cool basement or garage. Definitely off the car as well to avoid flat spotting.

Roger 🫡

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by Envyscorpio

Roger 🫡

Excellent suggestions DrFerry

[okusa]

Super technical and informative information here. I just wonder if (i) anyone actually takes those steps; and (ii) if it really matters.

[Envyscorpio]

Originally Posted by okusa

Super technical and informative information here. I just wonder if (i) anyone actually takes those steps; and (ii) if it really matters.

I have been using Nankang AR1 and Bridgestone 71RS for the past 2 years and this is what I have experienced.

My 1st set of AR1 or 71RS lasted me 3 DEs with noticeable drop off in grip on the 3rd day (ABS kicking in after 3~4 laps depending on weather). On my 2nd sets of same R-comp I ran both for a short morning session and stored them at a basement due to covid lock down and didn't participate any events for 3 months.

Both brand got an extra day out (4 DEs) with consistent grip and lap times. I feel more confident carrying speed and getting on throttle early to rotate the car. Hence I was wondering if tire warmers can condition the tires before I go practice. Guess I will just have to break them in every time I mount new ones.