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      04-04-2008, 04:13 PM   #2443
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Originally Posted by rai View Post
just wanted to see how this thread has one million + views.

Can't read it can somebody provide a synopsis?

Ebay auction.

Dealer posts wrong price.

Dooma350 wins auciton

Dealer tries to back out of deal.

Dooma posts on BimmerPost

Interwebz erupt in flames, earth reverses rotation.

Everyone lawyers up, and the dealer is beaten into submission.

Car finally gets paid for, everyone (including dealer) claims victory.

1,000,000+ posts later, Dooma is still waiting for a car....
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      04-04-2008, 05:34 PM   #2444
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Who Googles a specific dealer? They'll research the hell out of the car in an effort to try to learn about it and get pricing data, but the dealer? At best they might contact a couple of dealers to try to work the best deal possible, but I don't know many folks that would actually try to research the dealer themselves.
Actually, most people I know would do that. Granted, I live in an area where most brands have more than one dealership. Since it's a pretty big deal to buy a car, it's kind of foolish not to do your homework before making a purchase.
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      04-04-2008, 05:41 PM   #2445
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Out of the many times I had purchased a vehicle, the only time I looked a specific dealer up online was this time with Husker and I'm not the one even buying a car this time. It was a first. I don't know anyone that would, other than when finding the closest alternative locations, comparative pricing or perhaps availability as opposed to reputation and past sales history. I don't think I have ever been to a Sterling, Crevier, or New Century BMW website.

If anything, I would go there in person after making a few phone calls.
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      04-04-2008, 07:02 PM   #2446
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Dealer experience is as varied as the weather. Some have great experiences and others horrible. That's what happens. There are some who go out of their way to be total dicks to their salesperson etc. There are some people that are just incapable of being pleased even when the dealership goes out of their way. And then there are those times where dealerships go out of their way to be aholes and deserve the flak they get.

But let me just clearly say that dealerships are closely watched and regulated. If they break the law, they lose their license. But what laws are there to govern how a buyer acts?

This isn't a post in defense of dealerships. If any of you have ever been a car salesman for longer than 6 months (most don't even last 2 months) you'll quickly figure out that many (not all) who come in to buy a car have a "plan" and that plan is to deceive. There is no law against that and dealerships have to be prepared to call these jimmy jacks out. It happened to me MANY times. Even had one yahoo falsify an internet e-mail claiming the int manager promised him a car WAY below invoice because he had the proof in the doctored e-mail. Of course, this guy came in when this particular salesman wasn't working (how convenient for him) I had access to his client base and emails and not only showed the guy that he had never contacted us but that his doctored e-mail wasn't an email that we send out. I then point blank told him it's a felony to misrepresent/forge an email and that he could either continue to tell his story to the authorities or walk out and never come back again. Once he understood I knew he was trying to hoodwink me and I quickly exposed him as a lying POS fraud, he quickly walked out.

Huckster BMW, based on what has been described, got caught with their pants down and tried to play fast and loose thinking Ken would do nothing. They were wrong and they finally cooperated once the fire was lit under behind. Hopefully they have learned their lesson. And remember that dealerships aren't non profit centers. So don't be a jimmy jack when you come in wanting a car under invoice.
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      04-04-2008, 08:21 PM   #2447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UsedCarSalesmanwCombOver View Post
* * *Huckster BMW, based on what has been described, got caught with their pants down and tried to play fast and loose thinking Ken would do nothing. They were wrong and they finally cooperated once the fire was lit under behind. Hopefully they have learned their lesson. * * *
Thats not what happened at all. After they were shamed into doing the deal they still refused to do it, put up obstacles to receiving the money (rejected the deposit!), told Doom he had 72 hours to come up with the cash (after they had interfered with his deal for a week, and even though he had 168 hours), and when Doom came down with the money -- early -- they still didnt ship the car on time or pay his big legal bills.

BUT WAIT THERES MORE

The dealer wasn't done yet. And it did nothing "cooperative." It theatened everyone on the internet with a lawsuit for speaking our minds and exposing them. And, after all that, Huckster posted a totally bullshit announcement and sent out an email to its unsuspecting customers about how it honoured the "contract" (its word, BTW) and had a satisfied customer. In other words, a total lie. Which you are apparently perpetuating.

So, considering the source I take what you have posted with less than a grain of NaCl.
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      04-04-2008, 09:56 PM   #2448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortune2008 View Post
Thats not what happened at all. After they were shamed into doing the deal they still refused to do it, put up obstacles to receiving the money (rejected the deposit!), told Doom he had 72 hours to come up with the cash (after they had interfered with his deal for a week, and even though he had 168 hours), and when Doom came down with the money -- early -- they still didnt ship the car on time or pay his big legal bills.

BUT WAIT THERES MORE

The dealer wasn't done yet. And it did nothing "cooperative." It theatened everyone on the internet with a lawsuit for speaking our minds and exposing them. And, after all that, Huckster posted a totally bullshit announcement and sent out an email to its unsuspecting customers about how it honoured the "contract" (its word, BTW) and had a satisfied customer. In other words, a total lie. Which you are apparently perpetuating.

So, considering the source I take what you have posted with less than a grain of NaCl.
but still no car yet?
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      04-04-2008, 10:41 PM   #2449
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Doom - Has it shipped? When is it due?
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      04-05-2008, 03:47 PM   #2450
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Any updates today? Surely the car has shipped by now? Good luck Dooma!
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      04-05-2008, 06:16 PM   #2451
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I have a bad feeling that Dooma would have been better off had he not won the EBAY auction. When it's all said and done, I think Dooma will have spent more money than he would have if he had bought a new M3 in CA, and he could have found the exact color and options that he really wanted.

Husker, EBAY, and BMWNA all showed their true colors in this fiasco. The only winners were the lawyers that got paid, due to Husker's failures.
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      04-05-2008, 06:46 PM   #2452
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Originally Posted by MonkPDX View Post
I have a bad feeling that Dooma would have been better off had he not won the EBAY auction. When it's all said and done, I think Dooma will have spent more money than he would have if he had bought a new M3 in CA, and he could have found the exact color and options that he really wanted.

Husker, EBAY, and BMWNA all showed their true colors in this fiasco. The only winners were the lawyers that got paid, due to Husker's failures.
I must step in a say that BMWNA's stance is and has been pretty clear about this type of thing - the dealers are out there to hang themselves. BMW is more concerned with providing a good product and then providing additional customer service.

Similar issues were discussed during the release and price gouging involved in the release of the E46 M3. There were herds of customer that complained and wrote letters, even printed in Roundel, about shady dealer practices.
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      04-05-2008, 07:25 PM   #2453
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BMW NA and every other car manufacturer do not interfere with dealerships unless they do something illegal or purposely deceive the manufacturer. Hukster did no such thing and thus why BMW did not get involved. No other manufacturer, if put in the same situation, would have gotten involved. It's why manufacturers do not sell directly. If you do not like the fact that BMW didn't step in, don't EVER buy a BMW or post here again. That will show BMW! Have fun driving your Nissan Sentra.
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      04-05-2008, 08:18 PM   #2454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UsedCarSalesmanwCombOver View Post
BMW NA and every other car manufacturer do not interfere with dealerships unless they do something illegal or purposely deceive the manufacturer. Hukster did no such thing and thus why BMW did not get involved. No other manufacturer, if put in the same situation, would have gotten involved. It's why manufacturers do not sell directly. If you do not like the fact that BMW didn't step in, don't EVER buy a BMW or post here again. That will show BMW! Have fun driving your Nissan Sentra.
Well, to be fair, in this case it would be a C63. The M3 is not commanding as high of a premium because it has serious competition in this cotegory. For those of us 'in the know' and was a seriousroad car, we get the M3. For the rest of the 'swinnish multitude' that want a luxury brand, with some grunt and sportiness, they have the RS4, S5, ISF, and C63. I am not saying that I would take them over the M3, but they all are providing an option for the people that do not want ot only and M3. And I must say, the S5 spanks the M3 coupe in the looks department.

As for the last E46 uproar, there were whole lot of new Corvette owners.
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      04-05-2008, 09:17 PM   #2455
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Folks, our economy is based on capitalism. You have a product. You sell that product. You price that product based on supply and demand. References to "gouging" are ridiculous. Dealers can mark up their cars however much they want. If you don't like the price you don't buy. The kicker with a hot/new car is that SOMEONE will come along and pay the premium because they just can't wait for the furor to die down.
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      04-05-2008, 10:48 PM   #2456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_K View Post
Folks, our economy is based on capitalism. You have a product. You sell that product. You price that product based on supply and demand. References to "gouging" are ridiculous. Dealers can mark up their cars however much they want. If you don't like the price you don't buy. The kicker with a hot/new car is that SOMEONE will come along and pay the premium because they just can't wait for the furor to die down.
How dare you post something on here that makes sense!
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      04-05-2008, 11:00 PM   #2457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_K View Post
Folks, our economy is based on capitalism. You have a product. You sell that product. You price that product based on supply and demand. References to "gouging" are ridiculous. Dealers can mark up their cars however much they want. If you don't like the price you don't buy. The kicker with a hot/new car is that SOMEONE will come along and pay the premium because they just can't wait for the furor to die down.
Which dealer are you working for?
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      04-06-2008, 12:42 AM   #2458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UsedCarSalesmanwCombOver View Post
BMW NA and every other car manufacturer do not interfere with dealerships unless they do something illegal or purposely deceive the manufacturer. Hukster did no such thing and thus why BMW did not get involved. No other manufacturer, if put in the same situation, would have gotten involved. It's why manufacturers do not sell directly. If you do not like the fact that BMW didn't step in, don't EVER buy a BMW or post here again. That will show BMW! Have fun driving your Nissan Sentra.
Did I strike a nerve, Cletus??

How's that FORD Granada working for you?

Only 59 more payments and you can RELAX!!
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      04-06-2008, 02:01 AM   #2459
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Quote:
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For anyone curious what Husker is sending out in their newsletter and online:

April 1, 2008
Another Satisfied Husker Customer!
Customer gets an INCREDIBLE deal on a BMW E90 M3


When a customer saw the vehicle he was looking for, a BMW E90 M3 on an eBay auction for a fantastic price at Husker BMW, he figured it was too good to be true. But, he bet his money on it anyway. And when the auction ended and he was the winner, he found out that the auction price was actually a mistake.

Being the honorable dealership that Husker is, they agreed to honor the price of $60,000 for the BMW E90 M3. This vehicle typically would have been priced around $70,000. At Husker BMW, we honor all contracts. And in this case we covered the $10,000 for the vehicle to make our customer happy.

Visit Husker BMW today, located at 6701 Telluride Drive in Lincoln. Or visit www.huskerbmw.com. You never know what kind of deal you’ll drive away with!
I'd be willing to donate some cash to place a full page ad in the automotive section of the Lincoln newspaper quoting this e-mail they sent out followed by a brief rebuttal and a link to this thread.
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      04-06-2008, 09:09 AM   #2460
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Which dealer are you working for?
I'm not affiliated with any dealership, it's common sense...something that seems to escape the vast majority of folks posting on internet forums these days.
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      04-06-2008, 09:16 AM   #2461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elguevon View Post
I'd be willing to donate some cash to place a full page ad in the automotive section of the Lincoln newspaper quoting this e-mail they sent out followed by a brief rebuttal and a link to this thread.

+1
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      04-06-2008, 03:04 PM   #2462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UsedCarSalesmanwCombOver View Post
Dealer experience is as varied as the weather. Some have great experiences and others horrible. That's what happens. There are some who go out of their way to be total dicks to their salesperson etc. There are some people that are just incapable of being pleased even when the dealership goes out of their way. And then there are those times where dealerships go out of their way to be aholes and deserve the flak they get.
Don't forget the innumerable times when salesmen simply don't know the answer to a question and make one up. I don't believe they are *always* actively trying to lie but when I'm considering a $70K purchase I don't appreciate the unannounced guess. How do I figure out what I've learned is true and what was a guess when the salesman just mixes the two together with no indication of which is which? I've dealt with six salesmen at four dealerships in the last month and it's happened at some point in the conversation every single time. Some of these people were more competent than the others but it was clear that none of them knew as much as me about some detail of their product. Keep in mind that knowing their product is their job, I don't have access to a fraction of the resources they do. My experience is no more a scientific sample than yours but its happened to me (and I would guess others) often enough that I think you might remember it because it's likely the number one negative customer experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UsedCarSalesmanwCombOver View Post
But let me just clearly say that dealerships are closely watched and regulated. If they break the law, they lose their license. But what laws are there to govern how a buyer acts?

This isn't a post in defense of dealerships. If any of you have ever been a car salesman for longer than 6 months (most don't even last 2 months) you'll quickly figure out that many (not all) who come in to buy a car have a "plan" and that plan is to deceive. There is no law against that and dealerships have to be prepared to call these jimmy jacks out. It happened to me MANY times. Even had one yahoo falsify an internet e-mail claiming the int manager promised him a car WAY below invoice because he had the proof in the doctored e-mail. Of course, this guy came in when this particular salesman wasn't working (how convenient for him) I had access to his client base and emails and not only showed the guy that he had never contacted us but that his doctored e-mail wasn't an email that we send out. I then point blank told him it's a felony to misrepresent/forge an email and that he could either continue to tell his story to the authorities or walk out and never come back again. Once he understood I knew he was trying to hoodwink me and I quickly exposed him as a lying POS fraud, he quickly walked out.
Case in point above, salesman lying to customer.

Let's put this in context. In this paragraph you initially state your belief that there is no law against customers trying to deceive the dealership. Then you state that you told a customer he had committed a felony for deceiving the dealership and that you would call the police if he didn't leave. It's almost as if you lie so often that you don't even realize what you are doing. Have you mentally justified to yourself that if the customer (or maybe "most" customers) is/are lairs then it's OK for you to lie too? How often do you tell a customer something that you aren't positive is true just because "it feels like the right thing to do"? With your belief that "most" customers have a plan to deceive I'm guessing quite often. Is it this sort of logic that explains why I consistently receive untrue answers from car salesmen? I just assumed they were trying to make a living and do "the best they could" but maybe it is intentional?

IMO, "most" people not only don't have a plan to deceive they wouldn't even consider it. I think you're way out of bounds with that belief or your working at a dealership in a really bad part of town.
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      04-06-2008, 03:48 PM   #2463
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CONGRATS DOOMA!! Glad to hear you baby is finally coming home. Hopefully you get the call from the truck driver asap. It was a long ride but worth it. Enjoy.

Do you get a free fill up with that purchase?
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      04-06-2008, 04:20 PM   #2464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1234 View Post
Don't forget the innumerable times when salesmen simply don't know the answer to a question and make one up. I don't believe they are *always* actively trying to lie but when I'm considering a $70K purchase I don't appreciate the unannounced guess. How do I figure out what I've learned is true and what was a guess when the salesman just mixes the two together with no indication of which is which? I've dealt with six salesmen at four dealerships in the last month and it's happened at some point in the conversation every single time. Some of these people were more competent than the others but it was clear that none of them knew as much as me about some detail of their product. Keep in mind that knowing their product is their job, I don't have access to a fraction of the resources they do. My experience is no more a scientific sample than yours but its happened to me (and I would guess others) often enough that I think you might remember it because it's likely the number one negative customer experience.



Case in point above, salesman lying to customer.

Let's put this in context. In this paragraph you initially state your belief that there is no law against customers trying to deceive the dealership. Then you state that you told a customer he had committed a felony for deceiving the dealership and that you would call the police if he didn't leave. It's almost as if you lie so often that you don't even realize what you are doing. Have you mentally justified to yourself that if the customer (or maybe "most" customers) is/are lairs then it's OK for you to lie too? How often do you tell a customer something that you aren't positive is true just because "it feels like the right thing to do"? With your belief that "most" customers have a plan to deceive I'm guessing quite often. Is it this sort of logic that explains why I consistently receive untrue answers from car salesmen? I just assumed they were trying to make a living and do "the best they could" but maybe it is intentional?

IMO, "most" people not only don't have a plan to deceive they wouldn't even consider it. I think you're way out of bounds with that belief or your working at a dealership in a really bad part of town.
You make some very good points and I deplore any salesman who lies. If one doesn't know the answer he should just say, "That's a great question that I don't have an answer to. Let's go inside so I can get it for you."

Again, if you haven't EVER worked for a dealership as a salesman, you should before you think you know what you are talking about.

And as far as knowing a product, the cold hard facts is that fan boys of cars will always know the minute details of the car they get boners over than the salesman. A salesman should know about the product they are selling but they aren't going to know the intimate details of every engineering aspect that some of you might have.

The problem stems from the dealership not properly training their sales force if they are unable to answer legitimate questions about the car.

And so you understand me, I am not stating you are going in and asking bizarre questions about obscure parts of the car.

And btw, you misquoted me. I didn't type MOST people come in to deceive....i typed MANY (not all). There's a big difference. And where I worked--the largest most competitive car market in the world (take a guess), many did come in with a "plan" and lied to ME and I would call them on it. I never tried to deceive them because I knew that's the best way to NOT SELL a car. Maybe salesmen in smaller markets can get away with that cuz the buyer just can't go to another dealership a few miles away.

You really should go work for a dealership so you understand what it's like. Otherwise, you just come off as an emotional knee jerk reactionary.

Last edited by UsedCarSalesmanwCombOver; 04-06-2008 at 04:42 PM.
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