E92 M3 or 911 C2S?

[RingMeister01]

Every car guy that has the means to do so, should own a 911 at least once. It's a unique experience.

[Majin Buu]

Originally Posted by RingMeister01

Ever car guy that has the means to do so, should own a 911 at least once.

why?

[Rk-d]

Originally Posted by KillerM5

Guys,
New to this board but have spent a long time on the M5Board. Im a huge BMW fan but have also been in love with Porsche since I was a kid. Here is my dilema. My most recent M, E60 M5 with a ton of mods, is such a beast but Im looking for something lighter and more nimble. The car will be a weekend warrior and will see many mountain runs and a few track days a year. After looking into a number of different cars Ive decided on either a E92 M3 or a 997 C2S. I know they are completely different which is why Im looking for your insight. To keep this apples to apples Im leaning towards a 6 speed so no DCT/PDK.

Please give me your thoughts and personal experiences if you have them with both vehicles.

Thanks

If you currently own an m5, then the 911 is the obvious choice. If I didn't need 4 seats, I would have bought a Porsche, simply b/c it is a more pure sports car. All that said, the m3 is still a great car.

[RingMeister01]

Originally Posted by Majin Buu

why?

PM sent

[Da Hapa]

Originally Posted by Majin Buu

why?

For one, the weight transfer dynamics and steering feel afforded by the rear engine/rear wheel drive platform are unique. You can argue the merits/demerits until the cows come home but a modern 911 handles and feels quite different from a front engine or mid-engined car.

Some like it... some don't.

I am mature enough to readily admit that there are a lot of men and women who are quicker than I am around just about any racecourse and that I would probably be faster in a well balanced, mid-engined car. But I really enjoyed the "feel" of a modern 911 and much the same way I could care less that a good dual-clutch transmission is faster and more efficient than a three pedal, manual... I'll take the slower, more archaic mode because it's more fun (to me) and I prefer the way it feels.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Trip3's

Not to get in the middle of this, but OP asked about a 997 and even if you didn't realize that, you JUST posting a pic of your car doesn't really help him. Had you followed the pic up with your driving impressions I'm sure Team Plutonium wouldn't have busted your balls. Internetz is srs bsns.

in english please!

[Trip3's]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

in english please!

serious business.

sorry, that's a little e46fanatics sneaking in there.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Majin Buu

Not really. It started off as one of these:



And they charge $$ because their loyal fanboys will pay it, not because it actually costs them that much to make the car.

I'd say the M3 is way better value for the money and a much more utilitarian and versatile car. If the OP wanted a dedicated sports car, there are way better options for the money than a Porsche.

How does that explain the fact the Porsche is the single most successful manuf in racing history? BMW, Ferrari and Mercedes combined don't have the amount of race wins they have.

Have you ever seen the amount of wins they have in ALMS GT2? No one else comes close.

If you don't like the 911, no problem, but dont go out of you way to make up things that are blatantly wrong. Lamborghini started as a tractor company! And by your definition Ferraris are just upscale Fiats, LMAO!

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Majin Buu

Not really. It started off as one of these:



And they charge $$ because their loyal fanboys will pay it, not because it actually costs them that much to make the car.

I'd say the M3 is way better value for the money and a much more utilitarian and versatile car. If the OP wanted a dedicated sports car, there are way better options for the money than a Porsche.

In fact my uneducated friend, it's the 1963 911 that had things in common with the Beetle(and I see nothing wrong with that, look where they are now), once again OP ask about the 997 C2S!! It would'nt be bad for you to spend a little more time reading on the internet instead of commenting"hating" on these forums!!

[Shoney41]

OP, first of all either way you will be one happy dude. I was pondering the same exact decision (997.2 C2S or E92) and ended up going for the M3 primarily because it's much more practical and will likely be my daily driver or at least used more than a weekend toy (errands, kids later on, etc). Had those factors been different and similar to your situation, I would have gone for the Porsche for the following reasons:

1) no car is more timeless than a 911. The 997.2 will be very sought-after for years to come.
2) you'll be buying used, and some other guy will have eaten a lot of the depreciation. I'd venture to guess that you could own a 997.2 for several years without losing a ton on further depreciation.
3) as Ringmeister pointed out, every sports car enthusiast with the means should own one at least once! I hope to add one to the stables in about 5 years
4) similar to the air-cooled 993 of the mid to late 1980's, I think Porsche enthusiasts might look at the 997 as the "last 911" that wasn't totally modernized with various electronic gadgets (when I test drove the 991 I believe the handbrake was a button like in an Audi, and there was electronic rev matching with the 6MT).

Just my two cents...best of luck with the decision!!

[KillerM5]

Originally Posted by Hothonda

Ive seen you on 6speed.com. Beautiful 991!!! I think you are in the Seattle area as well if Im correct.

[KillerM5]

Originally Posted by bga23

I owned a 997.1 C2S 6-speed and now have an E90 DCT, so not exactly your choices but pretty damn close.

I'd go with the 911, even though cost is higher. While I really do enjoy driving the M3, I'd say I loved driving the C2S.

Drive em both and see which you prefer though.

Thanks for your input. I appreciate it.

[KillerM5]

Originally Posted by Tfk

PORSCHE: Proof Of Rich Spoilt Children Having Everything.


but not the carrera! especially not if it isn't the 991! and since it's a "weekend" car...

PORSCHE GT3 997.2
or the M3.

I would love a .2 GT3 for sure but its 30-40K more then what I want to spend on a weekend toy. I have 2 kids in private school, maybe they will be the spoiled children you mentioned earlier, a stay at home wife and a large mortgage payment so I cant justify the payment. But thanks for your input.

[KillerM5]

Originally Posted by Team Plutonium

OP asked about the 997.2 C2S.

Nice car though.

True but I love his 991 for sure. Last I checked this is a car forum correct?

[KillerM5]

Originally Posted by mlambert890

Agree that if the OP is talking about 997.2 then linking 991 articles, showing 991 pics, and generally extolling the virtues of a 991 is pretty irrelevant since thats a major redesign.

Now... that said... I actually *prefer* the 997.2 to the 991 (sorry 991 guys! LOL), so IMO if interior room is a non-issue then go 997.2.

If the budget starts sliding though, do *not* go 997.1 IMO. Whether its BS, over stated, or whatever (and I do think it is), the spectre of IMS still haunts the 997.1 and as a two time former 996 owner I can tell you that is all just best avoided.

The 997.2 and 991 share the new engine platform and (so far) there don't appear to be any potentially catastrophic design flaws

Thanks for the input, I appreciate your insite. I will say I think the IMS issue is about as overstated as the dreaded "RED COG OF DEATH" with the SMG's. Each car will have its flaws and if you are buying out of warranty then purchase at your own risk. I do like the fact that you are educated about P-cars vs some of the people that have replied to this thread.

[KillerM5]

Originally Posted by Hothonda

To the OP....unfortunately I lumped the 997 & 991 in the same category, so forgive my oversight + photo post.

Owned a 2013 M3 DCT prior to this car. There is no comparison. The M3 (IMO) is a nicely done, but warmed over 3. The 911 is not warmed over from anything.

The 911 started from scratch to be what it is today + they charge $$ accordingly.

My M3 below:

Man you have great taste in cars!!! The struggle Im having with the M-division is that each new model is larger, heavier and more refined which has taken a little away from the car. This is why I am not a fan of the newest M5. Its almost as large as a 7-series. That being said the 991 is the largest of the 911's but it has also improved in every performance category. I do think that the 997's will go down as one of the greatest 911's, especially those with the Metzger engines. Ideally I would pick up a 09 GT3 or TT, maybe in a couple of years when my budget allows.

[KillerM5]

Alright guys, I see that we have a lot of conflicting views. Lets reframe this discussion a bit. Lets assume I pick up a M3 based solely on the fact that I can get a 08-09 for a very reasonable price. How much would I have to invest to get it truly track ready. Now Im not talking about making it a dedicated track car but a car that can run with most cars on the track but can also be driven daily if I chose to. Thanks.

[KillerM5]

Originally Posted by Da Hapa

Former 2008 997S owner here who now has a 2008 E90M3. I special ordered my P car and owned her for a little over three years until my son was born. I absoluely loved that car.

I've only had my M3 a short time but as you've already acknowledged, you're kind of comparing apples to oranges.

If it were my money, I would only buy a 997.2 C2S or 991S. The Direct Injected motors (and all the benefits thereof) are worth it (unless you're buying a GT3). IMO, the driving dynamics of the Porsche are superior to the BMW in every meaningful way (go ahead and blast me, it's my opinion). And that includes fuel efficiency.

However, from a usability standpoint the BMW is much better. Ingress/egress is easier the car doesn't scrape anywhere near as easily as the Porsche. The BMW has a real backseat and a real trunk. And even the M3 can be parked just about anywhere without drawing the attention the Porsche will get.

Great feedback! I agree the .2 997 is a better car then the .1 997. Maybe as more of them come off lease Ill be able to scoop one up for a bargain.

[adc]

Originally Posted by KillerM5

Alright guys, I see that we have a lot of conflicting views. Lets reframe this discussion a bit. Lets assume I pick up a M3 based solely on the fact that I can get a 08-09 for a very reasonable price. How much would I have to invest to get it truly track ready. Now Im not talking about making it a dedicated track car but a car that can run with most cars on the track but can also be driven daily if I chose to. Thanks.

First of all, it all depends on your level of experience.

Right up to intermediate, stock is just fine and you may need a good set of dedicated track pads. When you get past this level, you start thinking about wheels, springs, harnesses and camber plates - and IMO thats pretty much what you need to fill your stated requirements.

Incidentally if you aren't in the advanced group, you'd probably be faster on track in an M3 than a 911. I've seen it numerous times. It takes practice and confidence to master the rear engine layout, which you may not get if you only go to the track twice a year.

I'm at the point where I need to decide if I keep the M3 and do the springs/camber plates, or go with a lighter track car. In my case, it would probably be a Cayman S, not a 911. I just like the mid engine driving dynamics better.

[KillerM5]

Originally Posted by adc

First of all, it all depends on your level of experience.

Right up to intermediate, stock is just fine and you may need a good set of dedicated track pads. When you get past this level, you start thinking about wheels, springs, harnesses and camber plates - and IMO thats pretty much what you need to fill your stated requirements.

Incidentally if you aren't in the advanced group, you'd probably be faster on track in an M3 than a 911. I've seen it numerous times. It takes practice and confidence to master the rear engine layout, which you may not get if you only go to the track twice a year.

I'm at the point where I need to decide if I keep the M3 and do the springs/camber plates, or go with a lighter track car. In my case, it would probably be a Cayman S, not a 911. I just like the mid engine driving dynamics better.

Great feedback Thanks! I e driven a Cayman and they are awesome cars. You are probably correct that the M3 is easier to drive for a novice driver and that is something I am considering. I was thinking a good set of track pads, springs, sway bars and 18" wheels with sticky rubber would do the trick!

[MegaLoL]

What the hell are you talking about guys ??!! I drove a 997S, 997 4 and M3 is a better car. And I'm not talking about "usability", comfort etc. It's much easier and fun to drive than porsche for regular driver. Porsche is hard to drive really quick when you entering corners. You think everything is fine and suddenly front lives his own life. I'm talking about 2S. Carrera 4, 4S is a huge missunderstanding for pepople who know what is driving about. Sure porsche can go little faster on nordschleife, but you must be a Walter Rohrl. In other cases normal guy can go faster with more fantasy than any driver in 911. I was 2 weeks ago on nordschleife and I ate all GT3, Turbos, Z06 with my almost stock M3!.
In matter in fact I have more than 600hp porsche ruf in garage and DB9 and I like to drive mostly M3. It's a complete car. Anyone who is saying that 911 is a better car has little knowledge about how to be a good driver.

[S65V8]

Originally Posted by KillerM5

Alright guys, I see that we have a lot of conflicting views. Lets reframe this discussion a bit. Lets assume I pick up a M3 based solely on the fact that I can get a 08-09 for a very reasonable price. How much would I have to invest to get it truly track ready. Now Im not talking about making it a dedicated track car but a car that can run with most cars on the track but can also be driven daily if I chose to. Thanks.

Depends, but basic things you'd have to upgrade if you plan to track semi often are brake pads, fluid, lines, and tires for starters. That's about $1,500 - $2,000 ish right there. If you get into the advanced levels, you can imagine costs on the seats, cage, belts, BBK, etc. on your own.