Whos running Mobil 1 0w-40?

[Assimilator1]

It makes sense as the bearings are made to be softer so it will wear rather than damage the crankshaft.
Agreed, that wasn't what I was contesting
Also agreed about worth getting it done, which is why I will be in the next month or so.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by Z K

It makes sense as the bearings are made to be softer so it will wear rather than damage the crankshaft. As it wears, it increases clearance as well. As the BE bearing thread mentioned, the softer bearings is "doing it's job" of protecting the crankshaft.

When my bearings came out, they had a lot of wear with copper showing on many of them. I posted pictures in the rod bearing thread. I'm glad I had it done - now I don't have to worry about it.

A rod bearing job is a small price for 12 years of problem free ownership.

The bearings DO NOT WEAR EVENLY AND INCREASE THE CLEARANCE. If copper is showing, the bearings were done. Kaput. Fooked.

[G80indy]

Cheap insurance - but use the HPMO, not Euro stuff
I use their 5w50 10w60 blended 1:2
At temps above 60f, (fair weather car)

[Z K]

Originally Posted by Scharbag

The bearings DO NOT WEAR EVENLY AND INCREASE THE CLEARANCE. If copper is showing, the bearings were done. Kaput. Fooked.

Of course they don't wear evenly. Every BMW M engine rod bearing is worn unevenly when pulled out.

When the bearing wears, it will take the brunt of the wear instead of the crankshaft. That's what I mean when I say they "increase clearance" - it wears in to clearance the crankshaft of the debris or whatever is causing the wear. All the aftermarket increased clearance bearings use the softer lead/copper design rather than the newer BMW hard bearing design for this reason.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by Z K

Of course they don't wear evenly. Every BMW M engine rod bearing is worn unevenly when pulled out.

When the bearing wears, it will take the brunt of the wear instead of the crankshaft. That's what I mean when I say they "increase clearance" - it wears in to clearance the crankshaft of the debris or whatever is causing the wear. All the aftermarket increased clearance bearings use the softer lead/copper design rather than the newer BMW hard bearing design for this reason.

Not really.

Hydrodynamic bearings should not wear. Wear like we see on typical S65 is not normal.

What the softer Babbitt is good for is embedability. Particles will get smooshed into the Babbitt rather than scoring the crank. Lead/copper is better at embedding debris than tin/aluminum Babbitt.

Cheers,

[Z K]

Originally Posted by Scharbag

Not really.

Hydrodynamic bearings should not wear. Wear like we see on typical S65 is not normal.

What the softer Babbitt is good for is embedability. Particles will get smooshed into the Babbitt rather than scoring the crank. Lead/copper is better at embedding debris than tin/aluminum Babbitt.

Cheers,

Ok, I agree with that. I never said wear is normal. As you said, the bearing is taking the wear rather than scoring the crank.

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by 330indy

Cheap insurance - but use the HPMO, not Euro stuff

Definitely don't use 15w50, that means the oil is thicker when cold (the last thing you want on an S65!), and thinner when hot.
If you're going to for a different grade oil a 5w-50 would be a better compromise, at least it's thinner when cold. Although there was some disadvantage with that grade oil, I can't remember for sure but I think it was that it shears down quicker?? Anyone recall?

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

Definitely don't use 15w50, that means the oil is thicker when cold (the last thing you want on an S65!), and thinner when hot.
If you're going to for a different grade oil a 5w-50 would be a better compromise, at least it's thinner when cold. Although there was some disadvantage with that grade oil, I can't remember for sure but I think it was that it shears down quicker?? Anyone recall?

Depends how cold. If one lives in Florida or Arizona, 15W50 is perfectly OK.
When temperature drops below 10f, or some -10c, that is when 15W50 lags behind. Above 32 or 0, perfectly OK.

[Assimilator1]

No, I disagree with that, (excluding Florida/Arizona, I don't know for there), seeing as theirs often issues with oil flow anyway (with OEM bearings anyway), the last thing you want to do is go for a thicker cold grade rated oil, perhaps over 15-20C it doesn't make much difference, but around about freezing it certainly will.
What data are you referring to when you say it's ok at 0+C?

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

No, I disagree with that, (excluding Florida/Arizona, I don't know for there), seeing as theirs often issues with oil flow anyway (with OEM bearings anyway), the last thing you want to do is go for a thicker cold grade rated oil, perhaps over 15-20C it doesn't make much difference, but around about freezing it certainly will.
What data are you referring to when you say it's ok at 0+C?

Based on viscometric properties.
Here is one example between 0W40, 5W40 and 15W50:
Temp.-- 100C--- 40C---- 30C---- 20C---- 10C---- 0C----- -10C-- -20C
0W40SM- 14----- 78----- 118---- 189---- 322---- 590---- 1184-- 2642
5W40SM 14.90-- 100---- 161---- 273---- 502---- 1010--- 2266-- 5795
15W50SJ 18.00-- 120---- 190---- 320---- 579---- 1139--- 2480-- 6097
15W50SM 18.10-- 131---- 213---- 369---- 692---- 1424--- 3270-- 8576

As you see, flow at 0c compared to 5W40 depends a lot of specific oil. For example Mobil1 currently uses GTL in their formulation, and GTL has excellent cold flow properties.
I would say that health of bearings depends more on how hard is someone on engine before oil reaches operating temperature.
Shearing down will depend also on base stock composition of oils. If you take Mobil1, 5W50 has much more GTL and PAO than 15W50, and that is to limit shearing.

[Assimilator1]

Interesting stuff, and interesting to see the small difference between those particular 5w40 and 15w50 even down to -20C!
Assuming (whatever those figures are) are linear, then at 0C the 15w50 is roughly 10% slower flowing, so even with a small difference like that I wouldn't want to use the 15w50 oil in an S65 in cold climates just because it makes a dubious situation worse (even if not by much).

Interesting about the Mobil 1 too, maybe that's why it's slightly faster flowing at the cold temperature end than the Castrol 10w60?

Re health of S65 OEM bearings, well they have exceptionally tight clearances for the oil grade they're spec'd at and the RPM and power they pull. All indications seem to point to that being the major factor to causing premature rod bearing wear.
Of course thrashing it from cold will certainly accelerate that! but presumably you don't believe that virtually all M3 owners do that? Or do you?
Also, many other cars with similar levels of abuse don't seem to suffer the same amount of rod bearing problems.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

Interesting stuff, and interesting to see the small difference between those particular 5w40 and 15w50 even down to -20C!
Assuming (whatever those figures are) are linear, then at 0C the 15w50 is roughly 10% slower flowing, so even with a small difference like that I wouldn't want to use the 15w50 oil in an S65 in cold climates just because it makes a dubious situation worse (even if not by much).

Interesting about the Mobil 1 too, maybe that's why it's slightly faster flowing at the cold temperature end than the Castrol 10w60?

Re health of S65 OEM bearings, well they have exceptionally tight clearances for the oil grade they're spec'd at and the RPM and power they pull. All indications seem to point to that being the major factor to causing premature rod bearing wear.
Of course thrashing it from cold will certainly accelerate that! but presumably you don't believe that virtually all M3 owners do that? Or do you?
Also, many other cars with similar levels of abuse don't seem to suffer the same amount of rod bearing problems.

Mobil1 uses more GTL base stock. Both GTL and PAO have very good cold properties. Combining both, like Mobil1 does, creates better flow.
But, oil flow is not everything. Add esters, like Mobil1 does, and they will stick for a long time on surfaces. Ester, unlike other base stocks, is polar. That is why Redline has such good cold properties regardless whether it is 0W or 15W.

[kyrix1st]

Just noticed that HTHS for M1 ESP formula 0w40 is 3.53. Isn't this lower than what used to be 2 years ago? Might explain why it no longer carries LL01 specification.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Just noticed that HTHS for M1 ESP formula 0w40 is 3.53. Isn't this lower than what used to be 2 years ago? Might explain why it no longer carries LL01 specification.

ESP is different than FS.
FS has 3.6. Reason for dropping LL01 is higher oxidation of 0W oils that have HTHS above 3.5.

[maoqiu1998]

Originally Posted by e92zero

I understand others have great experience with the 0w40. Maybe mine is just different. I agree that on cold start, the engine is much smoother with the 0w40 and during my daily work commute of 13 miles, the engine feels great. Trust me, I would love to continue to use 0w40. It's cheap and available locally where I can just pick them up the day I need to change oil. Engine feels smooth, more lively, lower oil temp, improved gas mileage, etc. It has a lot of pros. Although my oil temp is now lower after the bearing change with 10w60 than before the bearing change on 0w40.

However, I can say for sure that during the last 30 minutes or so of my 2hrs commute and after I get off the freeway, my engine feels less smooth and sounded more raw than when I am running 10w60. Much more noticeable during the summer months when it's really hot. There is a relatively steep hill I have to climb going home and the engine most definitely feel it has to work harder to get up this hill with 0w40 than 10w60 after the 2hrs commute. My BS oil report also showed that my 0w40 was shearing out of range. This is with 5k change interval on 0w40. 3k miles would be oil change every 5-6 weeks for me. That's a bit too often/much. If one day, I no longer have that weekly 2 hrs commute, I would go back to 0w40 in a heartbeat.

Hello sir, if the oil change interval is shortened, for example, once every 5000km or 1 year, will the M1 40 engine still have the strange feeling you mentioned? Thanks for your reply

[maoqiu1998]

Originally Posted by W///

The alert to add 1 qt came on before 5k miles (maybe at 4500 mi). I only needed to add about .6 qt and it was to same level as I normally fill, which is just 1 tick under max. Car never asked for oil with 10W60.

Having said that, the car was run MUCH harder on 0W40 than when it was on 10W60, so I think it's more than acceptable in my case.

Dear mechanic, I have just completed the installation of the BE bearing. I originally wanted to use 5w50, but I can't buy it in my area anyway. I am not a track rat. I usually drive on the street and occasionally drive violently. The oil temperature is controlled at around 100~110 degrees Celsius. I would like to ask if using 0w40 redline oil will have any adverse effects. Are you still use 0w40?

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by maoqiu1998

Dear mechanic, I have just completed the installation of the BE bearing. I originally wanted to use 5w50, but I can't buy it in my area anyway. I am not a track rat. I usually drive on the street and occasionally drive violently. The oil temperature is controlled at around 100~110 degrees Celsius. I would like to ask if using 0w40 redline oil will have any adverse effects. Are you still use 0w40?

Its all old threads that you looking at. These days I'd say the absolute majority of owners as well as mech shops recommend and use 10w60 oil, which the engine is specified for. Extending clearance, as with BE bearings, you will find is yet another reason to stay with 10w60. Surely it must be possible to buy online.

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by maoqiu1998

Dear mechanic, I have just completed the installation of the BE bearing. I originally wanted to use 5w50, but I can't buy it in my area anyway. I am not a track rat. I usually drive on the street and occasionally drive violently. The oil temperature is controlled at around 100~110 degrees Celsius. I would like to ask if using 0w40 redline oil will have any adverse effects. Are you still use 0w40?

You really do not want to be using 0w40 with BE or other extra clearance bearings as you could end up with dangerously low oil pressures when the engine is warmed up.

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by maoqiu1998

Dear mechanic, I have just completed the installation of the BE bearing. I originally wanted to use 5w50, but I can't buy it in my area anyway. I am not a track rat. I usually drive on the street and occasionally drive violently. The oil temperature is controlled at around 100~110 degrees Celsius. I would like to ask if using 0w40 redline oil will have any adverse effects. Are you still use 0w40?

Your location stated is NY. There's plenty of 10W60 in NY. Besides that Amazon delivers (usually). The BE bearings website mentions their extra clearance bearings are designed for 10W60 oil. Using lower viscosity such as 0W40 is risky indeed.
.
https://www.bebearings.com/
.
Screenshot from the BE Bearings website.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by maoqiu1998

Dear mechanic, I have just completed the installation of the BE bearing. I originally wanted to use 5w50, but I can't buy it in my area anyway. I am not a track rat. I usually drive on the street and occasionally drive violently. The oil temperature is controlled at around 100~110 degrees Celsius. I would like to ask if using 0w40 redline oil will have any adverse effects. Are you still use 0w40?

Don't do it man. I use BMW TT 10W60, warm up the car sensibly, and change the oil at a reasonable interval (1 year//2,000 mls). The car is rarely driven during the winter, but I start it up at least once every month and circle around the block until it's fully warm. My Blackstone reports always come back immaculate.

[Assimilator1]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Don't do it man. I use BMW TT 10W60, warm up the car sensibly, and change the oil at a reasonable interval (1 year//2,000 mls). The car is rarely driven during the winter, but I start it up at least once every month and circle around the block until it's fully warm. My Blackstone reports always come back immaculate.

Yea, 1yr/2k mile oil change is excessive, I do mine every 2 yrs with about 4k miles. My Millers/Oil Lab reports come back fine too.
I also take mine off the road in the winter and run it up monthly (but I can't drive it on the road as I untax it in those months).