BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
 
EXXEL Distributions
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-26-2018, 11:45 AM   #1
Grey///Matter
Private
Grey///Matter's Avatar
Canada
31
Rep
60
Posts

Drives: 2019 M4 CS
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Toronto, Ontario

iTrader: (0)

First Track Day - Novice Advice

Hey everyone,

Went to my first track day yesterday with the M. Initially, I wasn't sure how it was going to go, and it was pretty terrifying taking my daily driver / favourite possesion out onto the track, but I had an amazing time. I'm definitely hooked.

The event was at Mosport and we started with a few lectures and braking / skid pad exercises for everyone in the Novice group. We had instructors with us for most of the laps so that helped bring in some confidence and much needed instruction!

Now, I'm very excited (obviously) to make this a more regular hobby - but what's a good starting point from a novice level? There are so many things people have suggested: racing on a simulator, reading more about the physics of track driving, just going to more HPDE's. All of these seem like solid advice, but there's basically an infinite list of places to start. What did you do and what would you suggest? I will probably attend a full weekend track school in September and will hold off on mods to the car for now as I already have track brake pads and higher spec brake fluid...

Pics of the day attached!
Attached Images
  
__________________
'19 SMB M4 CS | iND reflector delete
'13 SG E92 M3 (sold) | GTS DCT tune | Remus Race Catback | CF Competition Splitters and Mirrors | Eurospec Bumper | Swift Spec-Rs
Appreciate 0
      07-26-2018, 12:56 PM   #2
Ximian
.
Ximian's Avatar
United_States
1885
Rep
1,854
Posts

Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: MN

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3  [0.00]
2021 BMW M3  [0.00]
  1. Add track day insurance to your budget to take away any of that stress.
  2. Butt in seat time is best, whether you driving or ride-along with an instructor.
  3. Simulators are a great and cheap alternative to learning the very basics for when you cannot have track time.

Take a look at the "Advice for new intermediate students" thread as well as there will be tips that can be helpful when you're starting out.
Appreciate 1
      07-26-2018, 04:40 PM   #3
dparm
Stop the hate, get a V8
dparm's Avatar
United_States
3848
Rep
8,625
Posts

Drives: C7 Corvette GS, AMG C63 S
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Frisco, TX

iTrader: (1)

Get yourself a suitable brake pad and fresh fluid. Spend the rest of your money and time on attending more HPDEs -- maximize the use of any instruction they have available. Don't bother with all of the race car driving books yet, you need to focus on getting seat time and learning the basics.

I'd suggest budgeting this out because you WILL use up a lot of brakes and tires (so be sure to check their status often and know the warning signs for replacement, too). Entry fees add up as does the gas the car drinks during the day.
__________________
Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport, 2021 AMG C63 S sedan
Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 1
      07-26-2018, 04:45 PM   #4
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
SYT_Shadow's Avatar
11421
Rep
10,296
Posts

Drives: E90M/E92M/M4GTS/M4GT4/X5M
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Greenwich, CT

iTrader: (2)

I'd completely ignore any books or theory. Learn on the track with an instructor. Look for as much seat time as possible.

When people are talking smack they say all kinds of stupid things, like trail braking blahblahblah. None of those concepts are useful to you at the beginner phase.

I would add some camber plates to your car so that you can go back and forth between street and track settings and not eat up tires as quickly

Track days are expensive. An inexpensive alternative or complementary solution is to do some autocrosses.
Appreciate 1
      07-26-2018, 05:57 PM   #5
bigjae1976
Major General
bigjae1976's Avatar
1567
Rep
8,074
Posts

Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (22)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.25]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I'd completely ignore any books or theory. Learn on the track with an instructor. Look for as much seat time as possible.

When people are talking smack they say all kinds of stupid things, like trail braking blahblahblah. None of those concepts are useful to you at the beginner phase.

I would add some camber plates to your car so that you can go back and forth between street and track settings and not eat up tires as quickly

Track days are expensive. An inexpensive alternative or complementary solution is to do some autocrosses.
Agreed and I'll add don't start looking at data yet. You need some consistency first before data really adds value (my opinion).

I do think basic corner speed and video sync'd up does help. Using Harry's lap timer is a good tool. I always found that plain video helped a ton.

It helps a lot if you can show up to the track with a plan. At least I like that as an instructor.

Keep the car stock except upgrade the brake pads and fluid, as dparm mentioned.
__________________
2018 F30 320iX Melbourne Red
2011 E90 M3 Monte Carlo Blue
2004 E46 M3 Imola Red
2000 E36/7 Z3 Steel Blue
Appreciate 2
      07-26-2018, 08:06 PM   #6
crzydave17
Private
71
Rep
64
Posts

Drives: 2009 M3
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Dallas

iTrader: (0)

Seat time, plain and simple.

I wouldn't even look at lap times. At this point you should be trying to understand what you're feeling from the car so you can translate that into effective inputs to the controls.

I'm not a sim driver but I don't think that would of helped me at all. I needed to feel the sensations.

Like Jae said, a camera inside the car to see your inputs can really help. I used that a bunch.
Appreciate 2
      07-26-2018, 09:03 PM   #7
Grey///Matter
Private
Grey///Matter's Avatar
Canada
31
Rep
60
Posts

Drives: 2019 M4 CS
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Toronto, Ontario

iTrader: (0)

Amazing, thanks everyone. This is pretty much exactly what I was looking for - there are so many places to start but I think it makes sense to focus on seat time first
__________________
'19 SMB M4 CS | iND reflector delete
'13 SG E92 M3 (sold) | GTS DCT tune | Remus Race Catback | CF Competition Splitters and Mirrors | Eurospec Bumper | Swift Spec-Rs
Appreciate 0
      07-26-2018, 10:20 PM   #8
dparm
Stop the hate, get a V8
dparm's Avatar
United_States
3848
Rep
8,625
Posts

Drives: C7 Corvette GS, AMG C63 S
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Frisco, TX

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Track days are expensive. An inexpensive alternative or complementary solution is to do some autocrosses.

This is good advice. Things happen more slowly, you don't have to worry about traffic, and it's not as fatiguing as multiple 20 minute sessions. You'll still be able to learn how the car behaves when it's pushed hard.

Many of us started with auto-x and moved up to full HPDE.
__________________
Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport, 2021 AMG C63 S sedan
Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 2
SYT_Shadow11421.00
kyoo340.50
      07-27-2018, 10:29 AM   #9
Azeka1
Lieutenant
Azeka1's Avatar
285
Rep
431
Posts

Drives: E86 M Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: NJ

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
This is good advice. Things happen more slowly, you don't have to worry about traffic, and it's not as fatiguing as multiple 20 minute sessions. You'll still be able to learn how the car behaves when it's pushed hard.

Many of us started with auto-x and moved up to full HPDE.
Very good points here. Like auto-x, if you can find a Car Control Clinic, that would be helpful - and inexpensive -, too.
__________________
1995 E36 M3 | BMW CCA Club Racer - IP #34 | Gray / Blue / Orange | 261WHP | 2,700lbs
2013 E92 M3 Competition 6MT Slick Top | AW / Fox Red |
2006 E86 M Coupe | Silver Gray / Imola | JRZ RSTWO | APR Aero | Sparco Seats/Belts | Weichers Cage
Gone: 2017 Audi Q7 | 2011 E93 328i 6MT | 2014 Audi A6 | 2010 VW CC 2.0T | 2011 G37 S Coupe 6MT | 2004 G35 Coupe | SW20 MR2 Widebody Turbo
Appreciate 0
      07-27-2018, 10:44 AM   #10
tdott
Brigadier General
3931
Rep
3,972
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: South FL / 6ix

iTrader: (4)

Focus on keeping your car in great shape and getting more seat time, don't worry about mods.

Mosport GP isn't a very hard braking track, so stock brakes with upgraded pads and fresh tires are a great start.

Was it a BMWCC weekend school that you did? If not, I recommend you do a few until you get signed off for solo lapping before trying a 'regular track day' with any other groups. It's a great way to start without forming any bad habits.
Appreciate 0
      07-27-2018, 05:01 PM   #11
Chris_PDX
Lieutenant
337
Rep
407
Posts

Drives: E92 M3, E46 M3, NA Miata
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2002 BMW M3  [0.00]
2012 BMW M3 Coupe  [0.00]
Instructor here.

* Get as much instruction as possible. Even if you feel you don't need it, if you are serious about high performance/track driving you get as much guidance as possible. I still ask instructor friends to ride shotgun with me to get new tips and tricks, every driver has their own little things to impart

* When you do have an instructor, make sure to tell them your goals for the day/session. Being more brave with the braking zones? Taking Turn 4 5mph faster? Don't focus on the lap as a whole, focus on small sections that can be improved upon. Those small things add up overall

* Lap times are a data point to show consistency above all else. Don't bother chasing raw lap times to compare with friends. That doesn't make you a better driver.

* Driving fast is one thing: recovering from a fuck-up is much more important than being able to improve another half second off a lap time. You need to understand how to control the car when it gets out of sorts (understeer, oversteer, too hot into a corner, etc.). A lot of people can drive fast (especially modern cars), but being able to recover when the car doesn't do what you want it to do is the mark of a truly good driver.

* At track/HPDE days, take care of yourself. I tend to eat a big breakfast to calorie up in the morning, then I eat very lightly throughout the day. Hydrate, hydrate, hydrate. If you aren't peeing every hour you aren't drinking enough. Mental fatigue leads to mistakes (like watching the car in front of you going off track, and you follow him because you were fixated on his tail lights).
Appreciate 1
PrimeBMW661.50
      07-29-2018, 12:32 AM   #12
dparm
Stop the hate, get a V8
dparm's Avatar
United_States
3848
Rep
8,625
Posts

Drives: C7 Corvette GS, AMG C63 S
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Frisco, TX

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_PDX View Post
* At track/HPDE days, take care of yourself. I tend to eat a big breakfast to calorie up in the morning, then I eat very lightly throughout the day. Hydrate, hydrate, hydrate. If you aren't peeing every hour you aren't drinking enough. Mental fatigue leads to mistakes (like watching the car in front of you going off track, and you follow him because you were fixated on his tail lights).

Man, if that ain't the truth. It's so easy to get fixated on the car's well-being (pressures, temperatures, fluid levels, etc.) that you forget about yourself. Suddenly you're dehydrated, weak, and have to sit the next session out to recompose yourself. Sun poisoning is a real thing.

I've also had to end sessions early because I could feel my judgment slowing due to dehydration. I was making dumb mistakes and was totally out-of-sorts.
__________________
Now: 2017 Corvette Grand Sport, 2021 AMG C63 S sedan
Past: 2011.5 M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 0
      07-30-2018, 12:40 PM   #13
Chris_PDX
Lieutenant
337
Rep
407
Posts

Drives: E92 M3, E46 M3, NA Miata
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2002 BMW M3  [0.00]
2012 BMW M3 Coupe  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Man, if that ain't the truth. It's so easy to get fixated on the car's well-being (pressures, temperatures, fluid levels, etc.) that you forget about yourself. Suddenly you're dehydrated, weak, and have to sit the next session out to recompose yourself. Sun poisoning is a real thing.

I've also had to end sessions early because I could feel my judgment slowing due to dehydration. I was making dumb mistakes and was totally out-of-sorts.
Driver water levels are just as important as car coolant levels
Appreciate 0
      07-30-2018, 12:59 PM   #14
FuzzyPeaches
Private First Class
FuzzyPeaches's Avatar
491
Rep
197
Posts

Drives: 2011 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Atlanta

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Man, if that ain't the truth. It's so easy to get fixated on the car's well-being (pressures, temperatures, fluid levels, etc.) that you forget about yourself. Suddenly you're dehydrated, weak, and have to sit the next session out to recompose yourself. Sun poisoning is a real thing.

I've also had to end sessions early because I could feel my judgment slowing due to dehydration. I was making dumb mistakes and was totally out-of-sorts.
This is one of those things that never gets brought up in these discussions. New drivers (ALL drivers, for that matter) need to have the presence of mind to know when to cut a session early.

If you're making the same dumb mistake lap after lap, head back to the pits!

I had a friend who wrecked his car 2 years in a row at the same event. Both during the last session of the last day and its hot AF on the GA coast in June. He was too exhausted to be out there. We've since taken his keys away on Sunday afternoons
Appreciate 0
      07-30-2018, 05:05 PM   #15
ThunderMoose
Lieutenant Colonel
744
Rep
1,848
Posts

Drives: PY E46 M3 and SG E46 M3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: League City, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyPeaches View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Man, if that ain't the truth. It's so easy to get fixated on the car's well-being (pressures, temperatures, fluid levels, etc.) that you forget about yourself. Suddenly you're dehydrated, weak, and have to sit the next session out to recompose yourself. Sun poisoning is a real thing.

I've also had to end sessions early because I could feel my judgment slowing due to dehydration. I was making dumb mistakes and was totally out-of-sorts.
This is one of those things that never gets brought up in these discussions. New drivers (ALL drivers, for that matter) need to have the presence of mind to know when to cut a session early.

If you're making the same dumb mistake lap after lap, head back to the pits!

I had a friend who wrecked his car 2 years in a row at the same event. Both during the last session of the last day and its hot AF on the GA coast in June. He was too exhausted to be out there. We've since taken his keys away on Sunday afternoons
If I make two mistakes in a session - usually a slide and catch - I head in. I usually don't run a ton of laps though.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:33 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST