E85 M3 Advanced Fuel Dynamics

[philmeister4]

If it's a piggy back system, any use in getting a tune with it?

[pbonsalb]

They claim their kit on a NA M3 gained 32 rwhp, and with their tune added, it gained another 17 rwhp. It certainly seems to me that you need a tune to take full advantage of the greater octane, by increasing timing. Otherwise all you are doing is using the octane to make sure you hit the factory timing targets to make the stock power you should be making.

[philmeister4]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

They claim their kit on a NA M3 gained 32 rwhp, and with their tune added, it gained another 17 rwhp. It certainly seems to me that you need a tune to take full advantage of the greater octane, by increasing timing. Otherwise all you are doing is using the octane to make sure you hit the factory timing targets to make the stock power you should be making.

Right, that was a custom tune by a smaller shop, I'm more curious about using it in tandem with BPM. 95% of the time I'll be rocking premium fuel but for those rare instances when I can find E85, I'd go for the extra power. I'd like my tune to apply to the majority of my time behind the wheel instead of the rare track days and shenanigans. Not to mention killing the limiter and raising the red line.

[SHADY1]

Originally Posted by shakywarrior

He didn't but I'm sure someone with a VF stage 4 or knowledge about it can chin in.

He should be running the Bosch 42lb Green fuel injectors. All the VF stages have the green injectors. I have a VF650 kit on my M3. I also live in TX, I know the owner of the car with the VF kit running E85. I also know the guys at Eurocharge ATX and the owner of Advanced Fuel Dynamics. The 52 extra horse power on the dyno jet is legit. Will I be running this E85 set up on my VF650... I am not interested at the moment. I am happy with my current set up.

[whats77inaname]

Went up there today and spoke to Adam @ length. Very knowledgeable guy.
1) Install w/dynos to ascertain how much of an E85 blend you can run-$2500
2) They do NOT provide a tune for this on s/c'ed cars. The system is a true flexfuel setup. By providing a tune, the kit is no longer "flex" fuel, as you are running a fixed tune.
3) Install time is ~2 hrs. The rest of the time is dyno time. He said to plan to be there all day for install/dyno. He said they do 3 pulls, rest the car, increase the E85 concentration, 3 more pulls, repeat until readings indicate no more E85 is safe/warranted.
4) He indicated that anything over ~80% E85 is no longer effective, and they've actually seen cars lose power with higher percentages.

[TT_SM3RF]

What's up E9x Fam....there is a lot of skepticism about the E85 ProFlex Commander kit from Advanced Fuel Dynamics on the E9x M3.

Before installing the ProFlex Commander I spoke with the owner Ryan Truax and asked several questions.
One of my first questions was, "Do I need to replace my stock fuel pump, Injectors and Fuel lines". The answer was you shouldn't have too as no tune or modifications are required.

I have the VF Engineering 650 Kit installed with the Exotic Speed full race exhaust (Canadian Based Company) and no internals.

The VF 650 Kit uses the Bosch EV14 High Flow 52lb/550cc set of fuel injectors which provide enough fuel and minimizes the duty cycle at high rpms.

I drove down to Eurocharged Performance ATX in Austin, TX and worked with Adam, Jase and Ryan to get the ProFlex Commander installed. Needless to say, I baby my M3 so I taped this bad boy up with Blue Painters tape to avoid rock chips and other garbage on I-35 due to all the construction going on.

Once I arrived Adam, Jase and Ryan were awesome and answered any questions I had. We put the M3 on the Dyno and the Baseline #'s on Shell 93 pump gas were:

WHP=527.70 TQ=359.43 at around 7.8 lbs of boost and AFR 12.042
Stock Fuel pump can support roughly 800 psi which was plenty for our testing.

All Eurocharged ATX and AFD do is a baseline, install and dyno at increasing % of ethanol. We monitored wide band and fuel pressure.

Unfortunately for me, I arrived with close to 1/2 tank of gas so testing how much Ethanol we can put in the M3 would be minimal. The installation takes about 1 hour if your knowledgeable about the S65 motor, if your not, I highly recommend letting the guys at Eurocharge take care of the install for you.

Once the install was complete we were ready to test.
Overall we gained 49whp and 25lbs of torque from the original baseline #'s on just E61. Had I had less fuel in my gas tank we would've kept going mainly to see at what point the stock fuel pump would start to lean out.

AFRs remained steady and the power/torque curve was very linear as expected from a Supercharged M3.
I recently tested E75 and according to my data logging, was at 590whp and 393lbs of torque with an AFR of 12.749

I'm hesitant to go above E75 which is why I am going back to Eurocharged ATX to do more dyno pulls and if necessary upgrade my fuel pump.

Adding E85 to the M3 also provided me 2-3 lbs of additional boost which is putting me over 10 lbs consistently.
I'm also on Nitto NT01s and these DR's do not slip for shit unless its below 40 degrees. You can feel the added power all through the power band and I shift @ 8200 rpms.

Guys, I'm telling you this system works! I've owned 3 M3's (E46/E92/F80) and would definitely add the ProFlex commander if I still had the other 2 M3's. The ProFlex commander is the most cost effective way to add E85 without requiring a tune, bolt-on or upgrading your fuel system, it simply works. The guys at Advanced Fuel Dynamics deliver a great product and I can't wait till they start offering this kit for Direct Injection motors.

Questions about the ProFlex Commander contact Eurocharged ATX more information:
Ask for Adam
EuroCharged ATX
7 Applegate Cir #400, Round Rock, TX 78665
Phone: (512) 777-2799

Below is my Dyno sheet from the 3 runs we did at Eurocharged ATX. You can clearly see the power gains and why you need to get this kit.

Dyno Runs
1st Run 32% Ethanol
WHP=548.28 TQ=367.41
AFR=12.09

2nd Run 48% Ethanol
WHP = 563.37 TQ=378.16
AFR=11.819

3rd Run 61% Ethanol
WHP=576.86 TQ=384.77
12.385

Dyno Sheet
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6o...ew?usp=sharing

Dyno Pull at Eurocharged ATX (Follow me on my YouTube Channel "Blove G.)
https://youtu.be/cG0McZQMPM0

Advanced Fuel Dynamics Dyno Data on my E92 M3
http://www.advancedfueldynamics.com/dyno-data

Mexico Racing League Video of my E92 M3 going up against 2 boosted Mustangs
https://youtu.be/pNX4nAQgqyQ

My Instagram page for pictures and videos of my E92 M3 and other cars
https://www.instagram.com/tt_sm3rf/

Feel free to send me a PM if you have any questions or concerns!
Hope to see more E9x M3s with the ProFlex commander

[L4ces]

Good info, good read.
It's been pretty quiet lately on the performance front.

Also it's good to see some love for the VF supercharger.

The exhaust sounds really good too.

Oh, good representation for the E9x against the stands!

[TT_SM3RF]

Originally Posted by L4ces

Good info, good read.
It's been pretty quiet lately on the performance front.

Also it's good to see some love for the VF supercharger.

The exhaust sounds really good too.

Oh, good representation for the E9x against the stands!

Agreed and thanks...the exhaust note sounds good and there is no drone!
VF Engineering is willing to work with me on an e85 tune because this system is legit...I'd like to take advantage of the timing and squeeze a little more whp....we'll see what's next

[pbonsalb]

So the boost increased just from adding some E85, or did you change the pulley?

[L4ces]

Originally Posted by TT_SM3RF

Agreed and thanks...the exhaust note sounds good and there is no drone!
VF Engineering is willing to work with me on an e85 tune because this system is legit...I'd like to take advantage of the timing and squeeze a little more whp....we'll see what's next

What exhaust sounds like that and has no drone?

Never mind, I saw it above.

[TT_SM3RF]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

So the boost increased just from adding some E85, or did you change the pulley?

That's correct, more power is being generated due to the E85 so the crank pulley is turning at higher rpms resulting in more boost which is always nice!

Each pound of boost is an estimated 15-20whp extra depending on a few factors!

[pbonsalb]

I don't understand how boost goes up without changing the pulley unless there is more restriction through the engine, such as a larger volume of exhaust gas from the E85 combustion clogging the headers -- which is unlikely. 2-3 psi on a centrifugal is a significant gain, and I don't think combusting E85 should not produce it. Also, running E85 won't make the crank pulley turn faster -- it might help it accelerate but your engine is running the same rpm it has always run unless you changed the rev limiter -- and another 300 rpm to 8600 would not produce 2-3 psi more boost.

[TT_SM3RF]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I don't understand how boost goes up without changing the pulley unless there is more restriction through the engine, such as a larger volume of exhaust gas from the E85 combustion clogging the headers -- which is unlikely. 2-3 psi on a centrifugal is a significant gain, and I don't think combusting E85 should not produce it. Also, running E85 won't make the crank pulley turn faster -- it might help it accelerate but your engine is running the same rpm it has always run unless you changed the rev limiter -- and another 300 rpm to 8600 would not produce 2-3 psi more boost.

Well if you know the answer then why do you ask? I'm telling you I gained an additional 2-3 lbs of boost I have no reason to lie about this.

Supporting mods also make a difference, get the kit and see for yourself, thats all I have to say!

[pbonsalb]

Something is not adding up, which makes knowledgeable people skeptical.

[azndrunk74]

Would there be any long term effects of running e85 on the stock fuel lines? It won't eat away at the lines? Or is it ok as long as you don't run 100% e85?

[gzim335]

Originally Posted by TT_SM3RF

Well if you know the answer then why do you ask? I'm telling you I gained an additional 2-3 lbs of boost I have no reason to lie about this.

Supporting mods also make a difference, get the kit and see for yourself, thats all I have to say!

You my friend have no clue what you're talking about,boost is increased with pulley or restriction which u didn't touch,e85 will make more power because it runs cooler and has more octane,there's no way you went up 2 to 3 psi because you ran e85 that's just dumb

[Patrón]

TT_SM3RF - I may be wrong but their dynos read pretty consistant (not low, and not too high).

please don't take this as negative but only my observation. your 527 initial dyno at 7.8 psi is a low hp number. to gain two to three more psi and 576 hp (on e85) doesn't seem impressive. i'm basing my opinion on the dyno library on pump gas. one would think with e85 and that psi you would be well over 600 whp.

how many miles on your plugs and have you ever received o2 error codes?

car sounds really good.

[pbonsalb]

I think 527 at 7.8 psi on 93 pump and 576 at 9.8 psi on E60 make sense.

I don't doubt some gains from E60 from just the cooling effects and the higher octane ensuring you hit the timing target, with boost staying the same.

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I think 527 at 7.8 psi on 93 pump and 576 at 9.8 psi on E60 make sense.

I don't doubt some gains from E60 from just the cooling effects and the higher octane ensuring you hit the timing target, with boost staying the same.

if at zero boost you make 370whp with tune and you ad 7.8 psi that comes out to 20 wheel per pound adding 2 psi would be 40 whp if you only gained 10whp from e85 that would be pretty sad.

[pbonsalb]

I don't know that every psi of boost adds the same power. I am also not sure of how much power E60 adds if no tuning changes are made. Your timing targets are ones your engine is supposed to hit on 93 pump, Assuming the tune is working properly, you are hitting them. E60 is not going to change them. It will just make sure you hit them more of the time. It also has a cooling effect since there is more of it, and that is worth a little, assuming your intercooler can use a little help.

Tune for the E60 and greater gains are possible. The additional octane will allow more boost with out detonation. It will allow more ignition timing, and it will have a cooling effect.

Also bear in mind this test was only up to E61, and not E85. But my question as to the extent of the benefit of Exx without changing timing seems valid. You can still raise boost, by changing the pulley, and you still have some cooling effect. Some say that you gain about 1% power for every 10 degrees cooler IAT.

[whats77inaname]

Originally Posted by TT_SM3RF

Mexico Racing League Video of my E92 M3 going up against 2 boosted Mustangs
https://youtu.be/pNX4nAQgqyQ

Something doesn't add up, and I'm hoping you can provide some clarity. In the video of you vs the Mustangs, @ :33, you indicated that you were running a mix of "109" race gas (which is 101 octane) and 93 octane. You said you were putting down "650-680 @ the wheels".

You indicated that you put down "WHP=527.70 TQ=359.43 at around 7.8 lbs of boost and AFR 12.042" @ Eurocharged on Shell 93.

You indicate that you "recently tested E75 and according to my data logging, was at 590whp and 393lbs of torque with an AFR of 12.749."

Your dyno numbers for your 3rd run "3rd Run 61% Ethanol WHP=576.86 TQ=384.77 12.385"

You stated your car was making 650-680WHP on a mix of race gas/93 octane, which you got no where near using the flex fuel setup. If your car was making, by your own admission, 75-100WHP *more* using the mix, why are you going to use this setup?

[8k4]

You need bigger injectors and potentially a pump. End of story, especially if supercharged. Timing map needs to be optimized as well