E85 flex fuel kit from Gintani

[deathbunny]

Am I missing something? There is a reason it takes more fuel flow to make the same power the higher percentage of ethanol you run.

[FogCityM3]

That's what the data shows from my logging with BavTech as I stated. The ECU thinks there is more oxygen coming into the engine (can log the air mass) and you can see the fuel pressure mbar increase (and there is an upper bound to it) when you mix with ethanol vs using race gas (and timing targets are hit in both instances). It always confounded me until I read some articles about E85 increasing the effective oxygen (as these other molecular additives have oxygen atoms in them), it all made sense.

The reason why running full E85 is dangerous is that the stock system can only inject so much fuel, resulting in a potentially fatally lean A/F ratio. At a 25% mix, pretty much hits the upper bound (6 mbar).

Originally Posted by 8k4

The oxygenated argument is ridiculous. Most pump gas is oxygenated with the additive methyl tert-butyl ether. Some are dillusional but power comes down to hitting timing, E85 can help achieve this, however, good pump gas can also achieve timing targets. Now if you retune and change your timing tables, you could extract more of what E85 can allow due to it's higher octane and cooling effects

[Pro-AM3]

if you think you can hit max timing targets on 93 octane, well, i have a bridge to sell you
. I fully believe the idea that e85 can net you ~50rwhp. i picked up 40rwhp from going 93 octane to 10 gal93/ 5gal c16 mix within a matter of minutes on the dyno - soley from being able to hit targeted timing

[AWTT335i]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

That's what the data shows from my logging with BavTech as I stated. The ECU thinks there is more oxygen coming into the engine (can log the air mass) and you can see the fuel pressure mbar increase (and there is an upper bound to it) when you mix with ethanol vs using race gas (and timing targets are hit in both instances). It always confounded me until I read some articles about E85 increasing the effective oxygen (as these other molecular additives have oxygen atoms in them), it all made sense.

The reason why running full E85 is dangerous is that the stock system can only inject so much fuel, resulting in a potentially fatally lean A/F ratio. At a 25% mix, pretty much hits the upper bound (6 mbar).

Its not solely that the fuel system is limited in the volume it can deliver, you have to re calibrate the DME to account for the E85. Since E85 requires more volume you have to be able to adjust the way the DME calculates the volume of fuel required to reach the target AFR. The DME models the amount of fuel required and then samples feedback from wide band oxygen sensors and can adjust the amount of fuel +/- to hit target -- the problem is that the fuel trims are capped at 30%.. so if you were to fill up your tank with e85 and go for a spin you're going to bump up against that +30% limit real quick which will induce a lean condition.

The device being used in these "Flex fuel" kits will prevent the latter, but so would a proper software flash... making it pointless imo.

[pbonsalb]

But an E85 software flash would not allow flex fuel since there would be no ethanol analyzer and associated code.

[AWTT335i]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

But an E85 software flash would not allow flex fuel since there would be no ethanol analyzer and associated code.

You could argue that the DME can already do some of this with the aforementioned fuel trims. It just cant handle big swings in variance because i what i wrote before. If you dialed it in for e85 and consistently filled with e85 it would be fine adjusting for winter blends and things of that sort. You wouldn't be able to fill up with pump without flashing a pump gas map.

[FogCityM3]

In the past, some have alleged that Brazil purportedly mandates E25 for their sold gasoline, and there is no known separate tune for that country (which is how people got to the E25 is ok for the M3 and subsequently logged the results). I've never been able to confirm whether the E25 is required for all gasoline sold in Brazil.

Not sure if the DME has to be re-calibrated for the volume of fuel (maybe it doesn't recognize its true volume, or the A/F ratio needs to change for different fuels for max power, but thought the ratio relative to load was the same for ethanol or gas). From what I gathered beyond the actual hardware to deliver the proper amount of fuel (pump, injectors, non-corrosive hardware), I thought most tunes for E85 were really to take advantage of advancing timing a lot more vs regular gas. Maybe tuners can chime in.

[FogCityM3]

True. Pump gas is not consistent even for a given octane and this is very evident when data logging. I have had the most consistent results with Chevron (prior to the new Shell formulations).

Originally Posted by AWTT335i

How often are you finding good pump gas? Do you test it when you get it? Is it consistent? Would you bet your motor on it?

Pushing the envelop on a FI stock motor on shit gas is a recipe for disaster.

[Weyne Masters]

I Brazil is mandatory minimun 25% off ethanol ,and the fuel has 95 AKI!

[JohnEastvold]

Originally Posted by SVH

Lately there's been a few threads about E85. Saw this on Instagram the other day, thought some people here might be interested.
Attachment 1588076

"Shipping out this E85 package to our customer out in Tennessee today. Advanced Fuel Dynamics Proflex Commander + custom E85 tune. Contact us today to order yours!" - Gintani

This was shipped to me. Im running a custom E85 tune from Gintani, the Flex fuel kit from Advanced fuel dynamics and this car pulls like a freight train. Im also catless amd have underdrive pullys. In a few days i will have an update. But i did install the Flex fuel kit a few days before my tune and i ran a bone stock e92 DCT and pulled from what he said 2 cars before he let off. Were going to rerun now that i have my tune and see the real difference.

[SVH]

Originally Posted by JohnEastvold

This was shipped to me. Im running a custom E85 tune from Gintani, the Flex fuel kit from Advanced fuel dynamics and this car pulls like a freight train. Im also catless amd have underdrive pullys. In a few days i will have an update. But i did install the Flex fuel kit a few days before my tune and i ran a bone stock e92 DCT and pulled from what he said 2 cars before he let off. Were going to rerun now that i have my tune and see the real difference.

New Member, eh?
Welcome!

Looking forward to some input !

[GabeS]

Originally Posted by JohnEastvold

This was shipped to me. Im running a custom E85 tune from Gintani, the Flex fuel kit from Advanced fuel dynamics and this car pulls like a freight train. Im also catless amd have underdrive pullys. In a few days i will have an update. But i did install the Flex fuel kit a few days before my tune and i ran a bone stock e92 DCT and pulled from what he said 2 cars before he let off. Were going to rerun now that i have my tune and see the real difference.

Fuck yeah man! thanks for that info, please update us on this? And please get it to a dyno asap!!!

[SDPLV]

Price?

[Tunerjones]

In for the price.

Also, I spoke with gintani a month ago and they said they would call me if they released a kit. They were hesitant with me having an ESS kit though. Wonder how the tuning would work out.

[ASBSECU E93]

Sub'd as well. I have a S/C kit and would like to squeeze a little more whp.

[Patrón]

Originally Posted by Tunerjones

In for the price.

Also, I spoke with gintani a month ago and they said they would call me if they released a kit. They were hesitant with me having an ESS kit though. Wonder how the tuning would work out.

Then would purchase from Advanced Fuel Dynamics directly and have someone else tune it (or just use the base ess tune and let the kit do the rest).

[GabeS]

Advanced Fuel Dynamics thread:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1329725

[gzim335]

I was of the first car to run this setup with advance flex fuel kit n Gintani custom e85 tune
My car would embarrass a fbo m3 on pump by bus lengths...
Check out my ig @c63nyc

[gzim335]

I was of the first car to run this setup with advance flex fuel kit n Gintani custom e85 tune
My car would embarrass a fbo m3 on pump by bus lengths...
Check out my ig @c63nyc

[JohnEastvold]

Originally Posted by gzim335

I was of the first car to run this setup with advance flex fuel kit n Gintani custom e85 tune
My car would embarrass a fbo m3 on pump by bus lengths...
Check out my ig @c63nyc

This guy was the reason i got it. This set up is the real deal. Dct is faster than 6 speed in this set up.

[deseroner]

Originally Posted by JohnEastvold

This guy was the reason i got it. This set up is the real deal. Dct is faster than 6 speed in this set up.

he is also the reason I will get this e85 kit.

[Tunerjones]

What's the price of the kit?